spaceman Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thanks Mike and Tecko for your nice words, stay tuned my friends and a Happy New Year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Hello friends, the clock is running down slowly, so I would like to thank all of you for the loyalty and continued interest in my work and wish me and all of us that we stay healthy and have a lot of fun together in the New Year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Happy New Year! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 Thanks Mike, and the same for you. Wish you were here again with new exiting Real Space Modeling projects this year ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hopefully I'll have a shuttle project to work on in the coming year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Come on, you just have to want it!!! BTW, if I recall correctly, you started a new project in 2013 with the Airfix Kit for presenting Atlantis' last Mission STS-135, has she lifted off already? As years goes by ... Edited January 1, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Happy 2018 to you Manfred! I hope this year will be even better than 2017 for you! I'm hoping to repopulate some of my threads here on ARC as well as complete a few Real Space 'shelf queens' ... My browser needed to get updated because some of the links on FOTKI didn't work and I simply put it off ... but with the New Year, I can start off with a clean slate! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Thanks Pete, and the same good wishes for you. Let's start together to new challenging and successful projects, and especially for you frustrated ARC guys again with lots of fantastic photos, because without pictures the old threads hurt really. It would be great if you and some of you guys could revive their threads. Now I'm looking forward to your Real Space 'shelf queens' and can not wait ... Come on and hurry up! Edited January 3, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hello friends, first of all, thanks guys, that ARC is coming back to life. Hello everybody, after a few turbulences in the last time, it can go on now, although after the long holiday break it's not so easy again to fall into the usual tinkering modus. The 3D model of my friend Joe's AFTC ring was almost on the way to the Shapeways printers, but what's the name of it? Things never turn out the way you expect. And that had once again to do with the selection of reference photos, where one should not be intoxicated only by the details of great Hi-Res photos, because also the respective time window of such photos may not be disregarded, if one wants to build a specific mission. That's what happened to me with the last photos of the AFTCs, such like this one, which comes from the STS-121 (2006) and thus from a rather late mission, Source: NASA what inevitably raises the question of whether the Aft Skirts of the boosters at the time of STS-6 have looked similar, or possibly different. Since I was not able to find any photos that belong to the STS-6 yet, I again searched the Hi-Res archives of NSF Forums (L2) and were very surprised when I have come across this great shot in the thread STS-1: Hi Res Images. Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (heng44) The conspicuous thing about it are the silver stripes between the ASTC segments, which immediately have reminded me of the SRB Mock-ups on the KSC grounds, Source: NASA but they only have 16 segments, as one can see here. Source: NASA (KSC/Mapio.net) However, as you can see on the STS-1 photo, there were four segments between the two SRB supports, giving a total of 24 segments, whereas the older Mock-ups had only two, what could be a simplified design with only 16 segments. Therefore, I assume that the ASTCs in the STS-6 also consisted of 24 segments each, as in the STS-1 two years ago. At this later photo (2013) of the Mok-ups in front of the entrance to the Atlantis Exhibition Hall on the KSC Visitor Complex there should also be 26 segments, which are covered with stripes at the seams. Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Lee Jay) But ultimately, what matters is the ASTC configuration that was present at the launch of the Shuttle stack at the mission, therefore for me the image of the STS-1 is crucial for further 3D modeling. By now I have already instructed Joe, so now he only needs the modified Stripe width, which can be determined from the Segment width, resulting from the circumference of the AFTC ring (Ø 30 mm) with C = 30 mm x 3,14 = 94 mm / 24 = 3,9 mm With this Segment width as the reference value, the STS-1 image results in a width of the stripes of 1 mm above the seams between the segments in the 3D model. And so I've changed my previous sketch, which now looks like this. That agrees well with the resin parts in the Newware-Space Shuttle Enhancement Kit 1/144 (NW131), as one can see from the drawing in the construction manual, wherefore this kit seems to me to be really worthwhile. So Joe can now customize his 3D model and upload it soon to Shapeways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hotdog Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hi Manfred, Here is a useful document about the SRB thermal curtains. There is a nice diagram showing the 24 segments. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940012651.pdf Some other graphics you may find useful, from George's Rockets: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Hi Brian, and thanks for this nice surprise. Yep, this SRB Thermal Curtain Design Support is really an interesting document, which I know and had quoted in an earlier Post with two of its great drawings of the ASTCs. But can you tell me from which source the other graphics from George's Rockets (?) and also the interesting photo come, which I didn't know so far? And therefore once more back to this awesome Hi-Res SRB photo from the STS-121 (2006), where one can even see the cords with which the AFTCs were sewn together. But so far I did not know if these seams still were covered with stripes before the launch as one could see on the already shown STS-1 photo. Source: NASA But on this photo from Endeavour's last mission STS-134 (2011) one can see the same kind of ASTC segments with cords but without stripes. Source: NASA And in this sence now to an awesome NASA video, I mean really the "Best of the Best" of Shuttle Launches, that many of you will surely know already. This video from the Glenn Research Center highlights in stunning imagery in slow motion the launches of three Space shuttle missions: STS-114, STS-117, and STS-124. And there one can see from 6:28 the Aft Skirts with the ASTCs, the segments of which I believe have no cover stripes like in this shot at 7:37. This video is so overwhelming and unique that one can watch it again and again in full length. Edited January 15, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hotdog Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Manfred, The photo is from George's Rocket pages which is an old website from the late 90s/early 2000s. Apparently the seams of the ASTC segments were still being covered with the silver foil insulation at the time he published his page. It's likely the early missions like STS-6 looked like this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hotdog Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Here's another nice photo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Wow, that is a great photo, Hotdog! Hi Manfred, you know what I think? Silver foil insulation would best be replicated using bare metal foil. 3D printing and painting the strips just wouldn't do them justice. Edited January 15, 2018 by crackerjazz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Hotdog said: Hi Manfred, The photo is from George's Rocket pages which is an old website from the late 90s/early 2000s. Apparently the seams of the ASTC segments were still being covered with the silver foil insulation at the time he published his page. It's likely the early missions like STS-6 looked like this. Hi Brian, and thanks for sharing this stunning source by George Gassaway, which is the ultimate treasure trove for all Shuttle Scratchers and will be answering many of my open questions. Your first photo I still haven't found until now, but if it's also from his awesome collections, I will find it soon. Unfortunately, he has not noted a mission number for the second photo, but since the lower four SRB rings already have the Instafoam insulation, it earliest could be from the STS-61C (1986). But with this result it is sure now, that the ASTCs during the STS-6 also had these silver foil insulation stripes. Edited January 15, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, crackerjazz said: Wow, that is a great photo, Hotdog! Hi Manfred, you know what I think? Silver foil insulation would best be replicated using bare metal foil. 3D printing and painting the strips just wouldn't do them justice. Hi Joe, the models look great and I fully agree with you. But you should at least hint the stripes for gluing the silver foil strips, okay? BTW, how height is the edge of the plate? And so we would have two versions now, an ASTC - Early Missions and an ASTC - Late Missions - Edited January 15, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Manfred, do you mean a hint of the original grooves? Or a hint of the 1mm strips themselves. The plate is 1.2mm thick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Joe, I think a marking of the 1 mm strips themselves through two thin lines would be better for an exact gluing the strips. How wide and deep are the original grooves? Maybe they also would suffice for alignment the foil strips during glueing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi Joe, I have thought about the strips and think meanwhile, that your original grooves would be okay, because they are a sufficient orientation for gluing the short foil strips over them. Therefore a hint of the 1 mm strips by two thin lines is not needed. But tell me, how wide and deep are the original grooves? Thanks, Manfred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi Manfred, I thought so too. 24 grooves should be enough. You'll definitely go cross-eyed with 48. The depth and width are both 0.13mm. I could make them 0.1mm but I'm not sure if they would disappear in the 3D print. You wanna give 0.1mm a try? Then maybe if the lines become too faint to see you can just pencil the guidelines in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi Joe, 24 grooves are needed for the segments, and a depth and width of about 0.13 mm should be okay. BTW, I think Shapeways would intervene if the grooves were not visible on the print, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hello everybody, meanwhile I have tested some materials for the AFTC strips. Ideal would be adhesive metal foil strips with the thickness like TAMIYA Masking Tape, at which I measured 0,03 mm, which would be comparable to aluminum household foil (0,03 mm), which unfortunately does not stick. And then I also tested a silver party streamer (0,06 mm), which were table decoration during our last dinner in a restaurant. But just cutting 1 mm wide strips of this thin stuff is already getting used to, not to mention the subsequent gluing on the plastic half pipe, for which I first used thin CA. The left strip is from the party streamer, the two right strips are from the household foil and have about the later required distance of about 4 mm. And then I was very daring and glued a 4th strip with MEK, which surprisingly seems to work too. This was not totally surprising for me, because I have already made the experience that the SSWS Pipe Supports let glue itself with MEK on the paper layer of the MLP deck, whereby the installation of the pipe framework is easier of course, since I only need brushing around the support's floor plates without having to lift them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi Manfred, You can get foil adhesive which should also work for gluing the foil strips. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hello Mike, the best solution would be a 1 mm wide self-adhesive metal foil tape, but I do not know if there is something to buy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 You'll have to cut up some bare metal foil. It's self-adhesive. I also have some foil insulation tape from the hardware store's hvac aisle. It's pretty thin. I'll be using it on the LM-5 coffin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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