K2Pete Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I'm assuming the 1.0 mm width you've chosen is just for testing the strips, because they appear to be too wide in scale as compared to your photos. I'm comparing the spaces, of the ASTC, between them. And when I've needed to replicate 'chrome', Bare Metal Foil and household Aluminum foil have worked perfectly. No lifting even after years! ( The household Aluminum Foil is adhered with a Foil Adhesive, it stays tacky and offers a bond a little stronger than a Post-it note.) I'm still watching! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi Pete, I don't know which photos you mean now? In my post from January 14 I have estimated the Stripe width, which can be determined from the Segment width, resulting from the Circumference (C) of the AFTC Ring (Ø 30 mm) with C = 30 mm x 3,14 = 94 mm / 24 = 3,9 mm (1/144) With this segment width as the Reference value, using the STS-1 image results in a width of the stripes of 1 mm (0,975 mm) above the seams between the ASTC segments in 1/144. Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (heng44) But now I'll probably order the Bare Metal Foil - Ultrabright Chrome, if it does not cause any problems with lifting, as you mean. How well let the foil cut with the cutter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Manfred, Don't order the 'Ultrabright Chrome'. It's harder to work with. When you order the Bare Metal Foil order the one that says 'New Improved Chrome'. The 'New Improved Chrome' is the good stuff. Mike. Edited January 26, 2018 by crowe-t Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) On 1/24/2018 at 3:33 AM, spaceman said: Source: georgesrockets.com Judging by this image, the width of the tape, compared to the width of the ASTC, the ASTC is almost twice as wide as the tape. On your 'mock up; using the Airfix kit's part, the width of the tape and the ASTC is equal. And even on the image you just provided ( above ), the width of the tape is much narrower than the ASTC segments. I'm just going by my Mark 1 eyeball ... To cut the Bare Metal foil is lovely ... as long as you use a NEW, SHARP blade! Pete Edited January 26, 2018 by K2Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Thanks Mike, what do you mean concretely with It's harder to work with, have you already used both types yourself? As I found out in a shop, the New Improved Chrome seems to be even thinner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Manfred, I only use the New Improved Chrome on car models. It needs to be thin and be able to make it around compound curves. I'm a member on the Model Cars Magazine forum and a lot of members there don't like the Ultrabright Chrome. They say the Ultrabright Chrome is thicker and has some problems working down into subtle details and doesn't stick as well. This is all I know about it. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, K2Pete said: Judging by this image, the width of the tape, compared to the width of the ASTC, the ASTC is almost twice as wide as the tape. On your 'mock up; using the Airfix kit's part, the width of the tape and the ASTC is equal. And even on the image you just provided ( above ), the width of the tape is much narrower than the ASTC segments. I'm just going by my Mark 1 eyeball ... To cut the Bare Metal foil is lovely ... as long as you use a NEW, SHARP blade! Pete Thanks Pete, but I cannot follow you, sorry. For me, the real picture of the STS-1 Lift-off is much better suited for an estimation, because it's a direct shot without a distortion, that gives a clear result, which is crucial for me. BTW, what kind of Bare Metal Foil did you process and how could it be cut? Edited January 26, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi Manfred, Pete has a point. I overlayed Hotdog's photo onto the 3d model to estimate the width and get 0.85mm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, crowe-t said: Manfred, I only use the New Improved Chrome on car models. It needs to be thin and be able to make it around compound curves. I'm a member on the Model Cars Magazine forum and a lot of members there don't like the Ultrabright Chrome. They say the Ultrabright Chrome is thicker and has some problems working down into subtle details and doesn't stick as well. This is all I know about it. Mike. Thanks Mike for your advices, which are evident and makes sense to me. For this application, the thinner foil is certainly better suited to settle in fine grooves and curves and stick there tightly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, crackerjazz said: Hi Manfred, Pete has a point. I overlayed Hotdog's photo onto the 3d model to estimate the width and get 0.85mm Sorry, Joe, but this blurred photo should not be the first choice for determining the dimensions. But even if I use this pic, that does not change my previous result. I believe we agree in the fact that the width of one AFTC Segment (measured at the circumference of Ø 30 mm) extends from the middle of one foil stripe to the middle of the next stripe, right? If I mark these items and refer the Segment width of 26,5 mm to my reference measurement 3.9 mm for all 24 segments, I also come up again with a Stripe width of 1 mm, whereby the measurements were made in a Word document at 175%. Edited January 26, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I like to use spatial relationships ... my final guide is "Does it look right?" On this image, please disregard your numbers, Manfred. Measure the Width of a strip of Chrome tape. Measure the Width of the Segment between two strips of Chrome tape, from inside edge to inside edge of the tape. How many Widths of tape will fit in between? ... My eyeball says approximately ... 2.5 ... as a guesstimate. On this image, how many strips of Chrome tape will fit in between? ... My eyeball says, approximately 1.4 ... as another guesstimate. So the Tape is TOO WIDE ... 1 mm looks to be too wide. I hope this all translates correctly ... Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Tried aligning the 2 photos: I did measure using the other photo and Manfred seems right about 1mm: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Hi Pete, I will answer you when I'll be back home, but forget the Airfix ring with the 3 strips, which are a little bit wider than 1 mm and have not the correct distances. Let's look at the original thing, which is the bare truth ... ... Holy cow! BTW, we (my wife & me) are sitting in a Pub and I'm only looking in my Smartphone. 😎 Cheers!!! or whatever you want ... ... Edited January 26, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, crackerjazz said: Tried aligning the 2 photos: I did measure using the other photo and Manfred seems right about 1mm: Hi Joe, for you the same answer as for Pete! We do not speak the same language indeed, but now we understand us. Cheers!!! or whatever you want ... Now my car is in the garage! The devil is sitting in bad pics, but we'll never give up!!! Edited January 26, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 47 minutes ago, spaceman said: Hi Pete, I will answer you when I'll be back home, but forget the Airfix ring with the 3 strips, which are a little bit wider than 1 mm and have not the correct distances. 😆 Let's look at the real thing, which is true ... BTW, we are sitting in a Pub and I'm only looking in my Smartphone. 😎 Cheers!!! 🍻 You're WHERE???!!! ... I'm sitting by a hot and uncomfortable iMac, sweating with sore muscles and needing to eat and you're ... not MODELLING?? ........ I'm glad to hear it! I'm a Diabetic, so have a nice COLD beer, or 2, for me too, my friend! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi Pete, now I'm sitting again in front of my PC and we can continue our nice small talk, okay? But I think we've cleared away all clarities meanwhile, right? Once again to my numbers 1 - 4 of the four ASTC segments between the both SRB Supports, which I only have needed, to know onto which side of the SRB I look. The only fringe condition in determining the width of the ASTC segments and strips is the fact that one has to distribute the 24 segments onto the circumference of the ASTC ring of Ø 30 mm (1/144), which gives 3.9 mm for each segment. And then the 24 stripes have to be placed directly over the seams of the segments, and so they should be now approx. 1 mm wide, as we can see. And believe me, everything else are Fake-News, I would say if I were Donald Trump. But joke aside, my friend, it's a pity that you have to go without alcohol, therefore I'll drink with my wife a glass to your wellbeing. But one question still remains, what kind of Bare Metal Foil did you process and how could it be cut? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I fear I shall be conversing with an inebriated fellow modeller, but I shall make the attempt ... For Bare Metal Foil, I have used Chrome, Gold, and Aluminum ... and simply cut it with an X-acto knife and a ruler. It is extremely thin material and quite easy to work with. I look forward to seeing the strips on the 3D part ... ..... mmm ... mmm .... mmmmm ... I can taste the beverage all the way over here! Many Thanks Manfred! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanx Pete for your help, but do not worry about me, I only had drunk (in - that - order) one glass of Ouzo - Campari soda - - Ouzo, and in between a double Espresso, which is enough for me, but not enough to be drunk ... BTW, I have not worked with Bare Metal Foil yet so far, which shows that I have not built a Lunar Module yet ... But I have ordered a New Improved Chrome now, which I will test for making the ASTC stripes. Many thanks again, my friends, for your kind support. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Hello everybody, just two short messages today in a trice. Today I've received the Bare-Metal Foil, and so I can test it. But at first glance, the foil does not look as mirror-like as aluminum household foil. And Shapeways let me know: Items we made in the future are now on their way to you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Manfred, When you burnish the foil down it will look shinier. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Thanks Mike, similar mirror-like as household foil? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 If the surface is smooth and you burnish it down enough it will look like chrome or household foil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Thanks Mike, but this could be the problem on the brittle FUD & FED prints ... When I'll be back home, I will post a copmparison, what will show that Bare-metal foil (New Improved Chrome) is not so mirror-like as the poor household foil ... Cheers! Edited January 31, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Hello everybody, although I wanted to sleep long ago, here are the announced photos. From left to right: Aluminum household foil - Bare-metal foil (New Improved Chrome) - silver party streamer. BTW, I had smoothed the Bare-metal foil strip several times with a Q-tip, but maybe that's comparatively not burnished in Mike's sense ... And here in comparison with the party streamer and the silver foil of my Raumcon friend on top of the Bare-Metal foil, which looks relatively matt gloss, which is not mirror-like for my taste, although the lighting always plays an important role. And now it's time to say Good Night! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Hello everybody, the last few days there was still a nice surprise, because the featherweight package of Shapeways with the AFTCs has arrived, and was very carefully unpacked, after all, it's my first, but certainly not my last. The Thanksgiving card made me even more curious. At the first glance, everything was packed very well. At first I was surprised by the number of bags , especially since I had ordered both versions, FUD and FXD, so four rings. But now it's time for dinner, see you later, and stay curious my friends ... Edited February 6, 2018 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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