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Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)


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Very interesting, Brian, thanks! :worship:

 

How big is this SOFI piece and can you post an image? Can one see this wavelike pattern on it? smiley215.gif

 

Thanks for pointing out 'Shuttleman' Scott G. Phillips, I will try to contact him on his Facebook site to ask him also about this wavy SOFI pattern. Do you think that he has time to answer? hmmm.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

BTW, some friends in the Raumcon forum did mean that this flat wavy ring structure was just an optical effect, but this was a three-dimensional effect, as Craig Capdepon has confirmed.

 

"The SOFI (spray on foam insulation) was applied with automatic spray gun sets on vertical moving rails I think in 3 locations 120 deg. apart around the tank. The tank would rotate and the guns traveled down the rail to apply the desired thickness. The 3 locations were required because the overlap max. time was 45 seconds. We desired the "as sprayed" finished condition because it was more durable when exposed to sunlight and the weather conditions in Florida. There was no attempt to create a "pattern" to the finish. We tried for a smooth uniform finish.

 

The wave like patterns were unique to each tank as a result of the variations in the spray foam insulation process. The spray guns pattern control tip would accumulate a build up of foam causing a less than perfect pattern. There were engineering drawing requirements limiting the peaks and valleys of this finish. The critical area near the nose cone was often machined to obtain a smooth surface using a tool we nicknamed the "pencil sharpener". 

 

I found this photo, on which one can see this tool during the repair work of the hail damage on the ET-124 during the start preparations for the STS-117,  in which he was involved too. 

 

07pd1080-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Of course I had asked further questions, including a term "Barber pole", which I found that characterizes the SOFI mode. top.gif

 

"It was a non-stop procedure. The tank was rotating as the guns started spraying a predetermined amount of SOFI. Carriages holding the spray guns traveled (down the rail) at a set speed until the end of the spray operation.

The correct tank rotation, travel of spray carriages, temperature of SOFI components, pressure of component supplied to guns, substrate temperature, cell environment, (temp. & humidity) and the pattern at the gun pattern control tip all determined the thickness and as sprayed condition of the finished product.

"Barber pole" was a shop term to generally refer to the method. The travel of the gun carriages was slow because of the large area (diameter) of the tank. If a smaller cylinder was sprayed (i.e. feed lines) this same method may produce a "spiral-effect" surface."

 

That these rings actually have a three-dimensional structure can also be seen in this video (unfortunately without sound) which shows an SOFI piece of the ET-93 used in the fateful last Columbia mission STS-107.

 

 

Craig commented about this video:

 

"This was not an optical effect. I would have to see a larger cross section to know exactly where this piece is from. It looks like part of an automatic spray possibly from the aft dome of the LH2 tank. I see two knit lines and it appears the three passes were approx. 1 inch each. SOFI is pliable for about 5 seconds after components are mixed and exit the spray gun. The rough surface in this picture is an example of "roll over" caused when SOFI is formed by an outside force soon after application such as excessive air movement from the direction of the gun."

 

Furthermore, I have learned from him, that he has worked on every shuttle that has flownup045518.gif  what I found next to this photo. 

 

217503_164564426935674_8363190_n.jpg?_nc
 

"Endeavor the newest shuttle STS-134 (16.05.2011) on the pad. This is ET-122 - we did the mod in February. I've worked on every shuttle that has flown."

 

A very interesting contemporary witness from that time, I have met in this way. up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

in the meantime another expert and friend of Craig Capdepon has joined our Facebook-Dialog, namely Vince Morales (Sr. Staff QA Engineer) from Louisiana, ie a quality assurance specialist, who among others was also involved in the repair of hail damage at the ET-124 (STS-117) in the KSC. up045518.gif   

 

And he has spontaneously shared more details on my questions.

 

The rotation of the tank varied during sprays depending on the required SOFI thickness and averaged approximately 2 rpm for the LH2 Tank and up to 6 rpm for the upper part of the LO2 Ogive.

 

As he said the peak to valley was about 5 inches due to the tanks being sprayed in a shingle pattern (barber pole style), what did confirm my estimated approx. spacing between the wavy rings of about 1 mm (1:144). cool.gif

 

BTW, the Pencil sharpener was only applied to the most affected area at the top of the LO2 Tank during the repair work on the damaged by hail  ET-124

 

Due to the high density of golf ball-sized holes at this point, the entire area had to be repaired,

 

up063786.jpg
Source: NASA

 

while the rest of the approx. 1.000-2.000 impacts further down in painstaking detail was repaired hole by hole by hand. eek.gif

 

up063787.jpg
Source: NASA

 

This amazing tool, mounted on the Lightning Rod on top of the Composite Nose Cone, was be swung all-around for grinding the hand-sprayed SOFI foam. up039822.gif

 

07pd1080-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Viewed from up close, one can see that the device was a kind of Multi-belt sander.  up046118.gif

 

07pd1081-m.jpg

Source: NASA

 

And with this speckled ET the Atlantis stack came back to the pad, seen here from the west side,

 

07pd1198-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

and here from the south side,

 

07pd1200-m.jpg

Source: NASA

and was then ready for launch again. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everybody,

 

at the end of May,  Mike (crowe-t) asked me, if I could ask Michael Key whether he could also model an Intertank (WSF) for his Airfix STS-135 Shuttle Stack, for what he would have to modify my STS 6-IT only slightly. cool.gif

 

Since I thought that it would be quite feasible, I asked Michael Key and tried to make it tasty for him, since this would be a useful extension of his store offer and certainly would find even more buyers, since most Shuttle modeler rather would build the later missions.

 

To do this, he would actually only need to remove some details such as the PAL ramps with the Cable trays, as well as the circumferential rings in the Thrust panels, since there were only Ribs, and needs modify the Access door.

 

These changes should make it relatively easy for him to model an IT version for the Super Lightweight Tanks (SLWT) of the later missions from STS-91 (1998), since he has already done the main work. top.gif

 

Here is a photo of the ET-138, which was flown at the STS-135, where one can see some of these details,

 

2010-4070-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

whereby the Access door in the SLWTs was only closed by a Graphite Composite plate ,

 

2010-4119-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

as can be seen here on the ET-122 at the STS-134.

 

2010-4904-m.jpg
Source: NASA

 

After Michael Key had agreed to it and I had discussed with Mike some detail changes, it was time, and so one can now after the Airfix Early LWT-IT (1:144)

 

Shuttle Intertank 1:144 Airfix, Early LWT 3d printed
Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place) 

 

also order the Airfix Late SLWT-IT (1:144) both in WSF and FUD at Shapeways speak_cool.gif

 

710x528_24026305_13229146_1530934547.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place)

Edited by spaceman
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Hi everyone,

 

since I now know from two experts that I chase after no phantom, now a next step for the implementation of this wave-like ring structure on model ET. cool.gif

 

As I've said already, there are these two discussed possibilities, either by a 3D printing, if Michael Key finally would have time and desire, or by Scratch-building. top.gif

 

Since Michael Key for his 3D model but already should know about what shape and especially what dimensions should have this wavy line, I have now tried to draw a first scetch. up045518.gif

 

Starting from the Peak-to-Valley width of about 5'' = 127 mm = 0,9 mm (1:144) specified by Vincent Morales , which roughly matches my previous estimates from photos, I have sketched the following profile (1:2), which should show this wavelike foam structure, how I could imagine it. up047089.gif 

 

up063784.jpg

 

Considering that the average SOFI thickness on the ET is approx. 1'' (25,4 mm) , I have drawn a profile whose peak height I assumed with about 0,5'', which with approx. 0,1 mm in 1/144 would be very flat.  

 

Now it would be important to find out how large this peak-height actually was at that time in the foam insulation. smiley215.gif

 

Let's see if or how Craig Capdepon or Vincent Morales will comment on that, since they should actually remember it. up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

unfortunately, there is no feedback from the two experts so far, whyever ... smiley215.gif

 

If I understood Vincent Morales right, that the Peak-to-Valley 5'' is the spacing from the top of the wavy pattern to the deepest point of the valley, then the Peak-to-Peak is the spacing from one peak to the next one.

 

But somehow my 7th sense tells me that his 5'' can't be quite right, maybe it's a bit to large, or I'm misinterpreting his term Peak-to-Valley so far. rolleyes.gif

 

That's why I took a different approach, because ultimately for scratch-building it is crucial, how many rings were on the ET, up046118.gif whereby the difficulty is only to determine this number as accurately as possible, wherefore I used these two Hi-Res photos.  up047089.gif

 

This old photo from the initial phase of the shuttle program I wanted to evaluate anyway, because one can see this wavy ring structure on the LH2 tank quite clearly.

 

And meanwhile I also know that this photo shows the rollout of the first LWT ET-8 for Challenger's STS-6. speak_cool.gif

 

up063962.jpg
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

However, especially in the front area at the beginning of the LH2 tank, this photo is simply too fuzzy for an exact counting of the rings, whereby this is made even more difficult by the foreshortening. 

 

Therefore, I have used another photo for this, where one has almost a direct view of this area, namely this one of the discarded ET-121 (STS-114), in which one in Hi-Res-Zoom with a little imagination and a sharp eagle eye it is also possible to count out the rings in this front area.  cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

up063954.jpg
Source: NASA

 

For better orientation on the tank, I have numbered the 17 Ice/Frost Ramps, in order to find the exact point for continuing the count up to the Aft Dome. cool.gif

 

And then the counting went off, but first of all, I had to attach a few markings in order not to constantly have to re-count, when my eyes had gone on strike and lost the orientation. eek.gif

 

up063957.jpg
Source: NASA

 

And at this first count I came to 64 rings at the rear end of the Ice/Frost Ramp No. 7, although I have to admit that the counting between the first two ramps was extremely difficult. rolleyes.gif

 

And then it went on in the other photo exactly at this point Ramp 7 (64), where the count was now increasingly easier.

 


up063958.jpg

 

At the end of the tank I came to a total of 132 Rings. top2.gif
What is following now from this for the width of the rings, which is actually the center distance of Valley-to-Valley? smiley215.gif

 

Luckily, this calculation is now quite simple if I refer it directly to the length of the Airfix-LH2 tank (without Aft Dome), which is 170 mm, whereby I rounded the number of rings to 130 for the sake of simplicity:

 

170 mm:130 = 1,3 mm per ring, which would be extrapolated 187 mm, which means 7,4'' at the original ET, which is less than the Peak-to-Peak distance (10'') by Vincent Morales.

 

Now only the Peak height is still missing.  But with the distance of 1,3 mm I can now at least determine the best width of the stripes and their distance for my test, possibly 0,75 mm instead of 1 mm with a 0,5 mm tape as a spacer, what I'm going to try on this ET dummy (Ø 50 mm), which I bought at the hardware store.

 

up063963.jpg

 

Let's see what comes out of it ... up040577.gif

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Hello Friends of the Rings,

 

since we were just now dealing with counting the rings on the LH2-Tank, here comes with the Aft Dome the still missing ET end. cool.gif

 

As the trained eye can see on this photo, which has already been shown several times, the rings on the Aft Dome are significantly wider than those on the front part of the LH2-Tank, although their curvature is barely visible, even in Hi-Res. cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif 

 

up063962.jpg
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

Nevertheless, I tried to count these rings, whereby I came only with difficulty to 14.spiegel-smilies-0002.gif

 

up063998.jpg

 

With the reference dimension of the front ring width of 1,3 mm, this results in a width of the rings on the Aft Dome of around 2 mm. up045518.gif The arrow in this picture indicates a small, but fine detail, which lies on the 4th ring, but what can be identified only in the Hi-Res-Zoom. huh.gif

 

Therefore, here again in the left part of the picture an enlargement can be seen, on which one can recognize the number 73. And this number reminded me of the already multiply shown photo in the right part of the ET-8 of the STS-6, on which one can see the bulge of the Rings on the Aft Dome very nice, whereby the number 73 is also sitting on the 4th ring. up045518.gif

 

up063999.jpg

 

Thereby the counting of the rings  is finished, at least on the LH2-Tank

 

But as we know by now, on the LO2-Tank there are also such rings, or bands after my earlier terminology, 

 

up063810.jpg
Source: georgesrockets.com 

 

which I'm already in the end of May was starting to count,

 

up063230.jpg
Source: retropaceimages.com (STS-6)

 

what I can now check again from today's perspective, because this would be the starting point for Michael Key's 3D modeling, if he would get still involved with it. up040577.gif

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Hi everybody,

 

in my search for more Hi-Res photos of the ET-8, I came across another great rollout photo here in NSF, even though with a laughing cool.gif and a crying eye. cry.gif

 

At first glance, one can still see no details at the Intertank in this resolution, but the picture is also from the thread Michoud: Best of External Tank - Hi-Res Images of Jester, and that's why the zoom finally provides information about the so far hidden detail structure of the Thrust Panel, which surprised me quite a bit. cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

zJHEDs.jpg
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

Thereon one can clearly see that these panels of the first LWTs had no circumferential rings and bars, how I let them modeled by Michael Key for my IT. rolleyes.gif 

 

ebc68U.jpg 

 

That means that the Intertank, which was modeled by Michael Key for me and since then offered by Shapeways, is no LWT-IT but an early SLWT-IT. top.gif

 

My mistake was that at that time I was too inspired by the 3D Intertank of my ARC friend Bill (niart17) and had not researched thoroughly enough.  up040472.gif

 

Thus, this is another example of the "curse" of the late pictures, one could almost say, what I had already happened one time at the very beginning, only this time with the difference that I have surprised myself. smiley_worship.gif

 

BTW, even in this photo one could already see this Rib structure without the circumferential rings in the zoom. huh.gif

 

up063962.jpg
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

And also my only STS-6 photo with a view of the Thrust Panel actually indicated that already, although I was not sure yet.  hmmm.gif

 

QVoGop.jpg
Source: forum/nasaspaceflight.com (woods170)

 

Anyway, now I know about it and just have to think about how I handle it now. smiley215.gif

 

As you may remember, my two ITs look like that, whereby I really liked these Thrust Panels. 

 

up063702.jpg

 

But these seven rings and small bars did not exist on the ET-8 at the STS-6 and are therefore out of place.  analintruder.gif

 

These rings existed only since the transition to the SLWTs since STS-91, but were then left out again since STS-122

 

What is to do now? hmmm.gif But anyone who knows me a bit closer, knows that I can not be satisfied with that,  i5684_no2.gif which is why I was looking for a workable solution. And since the grooves between the ribs are very narrow and flat, my mini-saw of CMK (cmkkits.com), was the perfect choice, which is only 0,1 mm thick, 

 

o2FDGK.jpg

 

With that, I carefully removed the bars between the grooves, which is cumbersome and requires the utmost caution, but is ultimately feasible, which at least my first test on a wasted IT has shown. And with the steel ruler one can then even later smoothen something.  speak_cool.gif

 

bBfjqs.jpg

 

In principle, a modification of Michael Key's 3D model would be possible, but the master is currently absent, and if I could get it that way, it would be okay and also cheaper. top.gif

 

Consequently I'll probably have to bite the bullet and try to get it right on my Stack-IT, toi, toi, toi!!!  up040577.gif

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Thanks my friend, :worship: the adventurous trip can go on. eek.gif 

 

After I have also revealed the last secret of the STS-6 ET-8, I know now what it must look like and I just have to realize it still somehow. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hello everybody,

 

meanwhile, the 0,75 mm masking tape has arrived, whereby I was lucky and got the last role. cool.gif

 

KmDtRQ.jpg

 

The 0,5 mm tape is unfortunately not available at this dealer, as it is no longer offered by his source in England, rolleyes.gif which is why I have ordered it now in the

 

Sockelshop, where even 0,3 mm tape is offered. top.gif

 

Then I tried the 0,75 mm tape on the LO2 Tank to see if or how it sticks to the curved surface. smiley215.gif

 

For this I have marked an orientation line and then glued the tape next to it, which is quite feasible, as it clings well to the curvature.  speak_cool.gif

 

28qTjk.jpg

 

If I then have the intended as a spacer 0,5 mm tape, then I can make the test on the ET-dummy, whereby I would need to use 1 mm tape

 

NA6prX.jpg

 

since the 25 m of the 0,75 mm tape would be needed almost completely for the 130 rings on the LH2 Tank and are reserved for it.  up040577.gif

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Hi everyone,

 

today I glued the first few tape rings of the 1 mm tape onto the ET dummy, but that was not for the faint of heart. i5684_no2.gif 

 

Since I still haven't got the 0,5 mm tape as a spacer, I have taken an Evergreen Strip 0,25 mm x 0,5 mm, whereby the difficulty is to position this very thin strip around the tube, in order to stick the 1 mm tape strip beside it. smiley_worship.gif
After having tested and rejected some holding methods, idea1_2.gif I came up with this Magnet sling, speak_cool.gif wherefore I clamped the strip at both ends between two small magnets and put it over the tube, which may seem adventurous, eek.gif 

 

hjaqpf.jpg

 

but still have worked. top.gif

 

lK6ki3.jpg

 

eQl39r.jpg

 

And in a similar way I would now have to glue 170 of such strips in case of emergency onto the LH2 Tank, erschrocken3.gif whereby the 0,5 mm tape as a spacer should be a great relief. cool.gif

 

EHbtFf.jpg

 

And to such an emergency I really have to adjust myself now, because Michael Key today has given me a knock-back for reasons of time. hmmm.gif

 

He means that he has only little time and would need it to spend on projects that are financially worthwhile for him. He would have the feeling that only the front ET part (LO2 Tank) would take a lot of development time, with the prospect, possibly to be able to sell only a few of them. huh.gif

 

He had also hoped that the IT for the STS-135 SLWT for my friend Mike (crowe-t) would be a quick and easy conversion, but also that was turned into a time-consuming project with several modifications. analintruder.gif

 

Unfortunately, I have to accept his decision, so I will now fully be focused on my Scratch variant with those tape-rings and by using the Flour technique for the SOFI texture. up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

let's go on with the analysis of the SOFI Rings. cool.gif

 

Since my first count of the rings on the LO2 Tank on this ET-8 photo seemed to be a bit vague and upto the top was incomplete anyway due to the lack of resolution, rolleyes.gif

 

up063230.jpg
Source: retropaceimages.com (STS-6)

 

I repeated the count again today on this new (old) photo of the ET-8 because its resolution is much better. top.gif 

 

eloNck.jpg
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

For this I had set the zoom mode (MS Word) to 250%, where one can see the rings pretty well, and came up to 66 rings. up045518.gif

 

And that would have to be roughly the area, where at the Airfix-LO2 Tank, which is 81,5 mm long, the front Nose cone cap is put on, the tip of which unfortunately broken several times and must be replaced. huh.gif

 

35Z4Vl.jpg

 

With this the determination of the ring widths was made, or in slightly more complicated expert wording, the Valley-to-Valley distances:
 
81,5 mm : 66 = 1,2 mm, which agrees well with the value of 1,3 mm for the rings determined on the LH2 Tank, and would match also from the optical impression. speak_cool.gif

 

Unfortunately, in the photo above, the Nose cone is covered with foil, but in the following image one can see different cones on LWTs of the first generation (1988), whose shape is interesting for scratching, top.gif

 

339IG2.jpg
Soure: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

 

and therefore here once more a slightly larger section. 

 

xxw1zZ.jpg

 

And already thereon one can see that the Nose cones of the LWTs looked a bit different, than one knows them in Graphite composite version from the last missions with SLWTs. up040577.gif

 

7jGxkh.jpg
Source: californiasciencecenter.org

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Hello everybody,

 

there are enjoyable news. cool.gif

 

Fortunately Michael Key had compassion for me and has modified his 3D model of the IT, bow.gif so that I can save me the painstaking post-processing of the Thrust Panels by using my mini-saw, which I had tested about a week ago.  speak_cool.gif 

 

up064197.jpg

 

Here is his 3D-Update of the  flown STS-6 tank ET-8, which is now to be found at Shapeways under its new name Early LWT-IT (1:144). top.gif

 

Shuttle Intertank 1:144 Airfix, Early LWT 3d printed
Source: Shapeways (The Aerospace Place)

 

Before this action, I noticed still just in time that at his previous model still lacked two small details that I had previously overlooked. rolleyes.gif

 

So far I had mostly only ET photos of the side facing the shuttle, but hardly any of the opposite side.  

 

1enuyl.jpg
Source: retrospaceimages.com (J. L. Pickering)

 

There I was always fixated only on the Access Door and the Carrier Plate Assembly.

 

But also on the back there are exactly opposite the same two items as on the front side, as one can see in this photo from George Gassaway. The pink circle involves the RSS Antenna and the blue circle an aerodynamic Vent

 

VvqMVZ.jpg
Source: georgesrockets.com

 

And exactly these two items were missing on the back of my IT, which of course could not stay that way,  i5684_no2.gif wherefore I should have to scratch them if necessary. huh.gif

 

up061813.jpg

 

But these two things Michael Key has kindly complemented next to the modification of the Thrust Panel Ribs, so that the IT now is perfectly matching the Early LWT. up045518.gif

 

AH8gpA.jpg

 

NtOxJv.jpg

 

rfuvsG.jpg
Source: Shapeways (The Aerospace Place)

 

And this IT I have ordered now once more in WSF and will probably use it in this form for my ET. up040577.gif

 

BTW, the IT modeled for my friend Mike (crowe-t) for his STS-135 (ET-138) Shuttle stack is offered at Shapeways under Late SLWT. top.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hey Joe,

 

cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif and that on empty stomach early in the morning, that really floored me. erschrocken2.gif

Thanks my friend, you are a hotshot! 00003423.gif

That's really jaw-dropping!

 

Hopefully there will still something be remaining of it after downscaling to 1:160 ... smiley215.gif

 

This is how the Track shoes look in David Maier's Paper Kit (1/160).

 

m3kLpg.jpg

 

P.S.: I've asked Joe if he could design a 3D model for these Track shoes in 1/160 for my Crawler, of which one needs 456 pieces, top.gif

 

up064137.jpg

Source: NASA

and he has delivered promptly. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hello everybody,

 

today, still a supplement to the 3D-Intertanks. top.gif

 

Meanwhile, Michael Key still also offers a further modified Airfix-IT. And that is the Early SLWT, which was flown since the STS-91 (ET-96), which here is presented in the new Shapeways Design. huh.gif

 

lsOM7W.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place)

 

For this he only needed to modify a few details on my previous IT,

 

ARn6pv.jpg

 

which he thankfully has done too. bow.gif

 

Here once again the front side with the 26 Integral Ribs and the 7 Circumferential Ribs in the Thrust Panels, etc.,

 

gYML5F.jpg

 

and here the back with the Graphite Composite Access Door and the Vent

 

iaGzWY.jpg

 

This configuration of the Early SLWTs was flown up to the STS-107 (Columbia disaster), starting with the STS-114 the PAL Ramps were omitted at the Late SLWTs, and from STS-122 then also the 7 Circumferential Ribs

 

There are now three versions of the Airfix IT (1:144), my Early LWT, which is now on its way to me, and next to the Early SLWT also the Late SLWT, all of which can be found here both in WSF as well in FUD. up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

once again to the Track shoes that Joe has put on thankfully. bow.gif

 

There's nothing like a good technical drawing with measurements, even if they are just so on the limit of readability. rolleyes.gif

 

Now he has to downscale the Track shoe "only" still to 1:160, whereon I'm really curious. top.gif

 

While the holes in the Pin lugs (Ø 3,3 '') with Ø 0,5 mm (1:160) and the 0,4 mm (1:160) wide grooves (green) should still be printable,   

 

dzKwGe.jpg

 

ek3p2k.jpg

 

the small holes (pink) with Ø 0,2 mm (1:160) should unlikely to be printable, although one should be able to live without them, because later they are hardly recognizable anyway from a normal viewing perspective. smiley215.gif

Now I'm curious what Joe will be able to do,  whereby Shapeways has the last word anyway. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hey Joe,

 

smiley250.gif


Can you also design such a 20 Piece Set like this one by Simpson 3D Design, because I suspect that printing a set would be cheaper than printing 20 individual shoes, right?  smiley215.gif

 

710x528_5069749_1240231_1459323880.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (Simpson 3D Design)

 

On the other hand, this set is more material, and therefore it might be even more expensive ... hmmm.gif

 

Therefore I've contacted Shapeways, to find out, what is more favorable? Maybe there is a quantity discount for 456 shoes too?

 

BTW, their material is now called Smooth Fine Detail Plastic, which is the old FUDup040577.gif

 

Edited by spaceman
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Good morning everybody,

 

Shapeways has notified what I already suspected and what is actually logical. 

 

Printing a set with sprues will be a bit cheaper to print due to the production team only having to handle one single model instead of 20 separate pieces.
So planning the models and cleaning/post processing them is cheaper. While it's more material cost, the labor/handling costs are lower for them! 

 

And furthermore I did ask, what arrangement of the shoes in the set is more favorable for printing, upright like in Simpson's set (above), or when the shoes would lie flat? hmmm.gif

 

And the answer was:

 

The position doesn't really matter, though it's favorable to keep the parts flat and as close as possible (smaller footprint).
If you keep them flat (rather than stacking on top) it will reduce the amount of wax required to print in Fine Detail Plastic (so less support material sticking to your model),
which seems to me very important ... eek.gif

 

Therefore, dear Joe, you should please design a set, okay? up040576.gif

 

BTW, unfortunately they don't have any quantity discounts, :rolleyes: since the material costs and labor costs remain the same when ordering it once it 100 times.

Edited by spaceman
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Hi Manfred I've uploaded the file to Shapeways to check the pricing.  The sprue didn't seem to lower the price for the track shoes laid out flat.   But with the track shoes propped up (also on sprues) the price went down a bit.

 

30165054008_4f2d682796_b.jpg

 

https://www.shapeways.com/model/upload-and-buy/7992810

 

We might even save more if it were a set of 40 or 50 -- you want to do that?  Or maybe try the 20 first to see if any modifications are required?

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Hi Joe,

 

thanks for your modifications, :worship: which is the same configuration as by Simpson 3D Design8)

 

710x528_24493326_13419734_1534247326.jpg.
Source: shapeways.com (crackerjazz)
 

But if I understood Shapeways correctly, they consider the marked arrangement as the most favorable for the printing direction with the fewest wax residues, if one would turn this arrangement and lay the shoes on the running surfaces, which would be very important for the required Ultrasonic cleaningtop.gif

 

tOhqNP.jpg

 

If necessary, I'll ask them once again. up040577.gif

 

BTW, as far as I know, Shapeways offers the possibility for showing the placement of the Support wax in the model. 

 

Do you know that, or can you check that for the variants? :hmmm:

 

Maybe Bill can say something from his view too, if he's still reading? smiley215.gif

Edited by spaceman
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