spaceman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Thanks Mike for your remarks. Hello everybody, indeed the situation is quite difficult and reminds me of the scale dilemma of the Revell Launch Tower kit, which was even more complex and had aleady forced me to make some compromises. But the problem is not David's Paper kit per se, but the fact that my true-to-scale Track shoes & Main sprockets (1/160) do not quite fit D. Maier's scaled-down Kit (1/160), especially because the kit's Tractor assemblies & Track shoes are not-true-to-scale but rather a bit too small, that is my problem. Regardless of this, one can build the crawler exactly as it is described in the assembly instructions, if one doesn't mind that not all parts are exactly 1/144. My German friend Michael Knobloch (mk310149) had built all three paper kits by David Maier and had no major problems with them, as everything fits together when you use the paper kits completely, as if you were building a kit Out Of Box (OOB). One can follow his Crawler construction report here. Maybe the simplest solution would be to leave out around five track shoes per chain, as I've hinted it here above the too small truck front panel (1/160), above that lies the larger panel from the "144" kit. But I'm not amused with this stopgap, especially as my 1/160 Main sprockets & Track shoes are too big for this too small Kit tractor, especially as my true-to-scale chain with 57 Track shoes matches the drawing (1/160) pretty well, as was already shown in the last post. In order to get a more precise overview of the dimensions of the crawler from D. Maier's kit (1/144) and to be able to compare details better, I've asked my friend Michael to determine the main dimensions of its crawler and communicate to me, which he also has done. All he had to do was take off his glass case, which is above the Launch pad diorama in his "house museum", what wasn't to be done in a jiffy. And this is the result, whereby the measurements of his Crawler ("1/144") are marked in red. And as one can see from this, many dimensions are smaller and correspond to a scale of approx. 1/150, instead of 1/144, what I had almost suspected by now. Therefore the following compromise would be imaginable, that for my crawler I could not use my scaled-down 1/160 Kit, but Maier's Paper Kit "1/144" , which then would be a little bit larger, but which I think would be still acceptable, especially since that shouldn't be particularly noticeable under the MLP (1/160). So I could imagine a way out of this misery. Edited February 1, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Hi Manfred, Could you scale Maier's 1/144(1/150)paper kit to 1/160 and have it printed at that size? Would that work? Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Thanks Mike for your proposal, that's exactly what I did, Maier's 1/144 Paper kit was scaled-down to 1/160, but which unfortunately not works, as I have shown, because his 1/144 kit is only approx. 1/150 ... BTW, a friend of mine in the NSF Forum has a confirmation from David Maier that his 1/144 Paper kit is a scaled-down version of his 1/96 kit, which is probably the cause. This underlines once again the importance of good reference material, which one should check carefully. Therefore I prefer to rely on NASA drawings if I have them. Therefore my copy shop has now to print Maier's 1/144 Paper kit reduced to 95 %, then the Kit templates have the right dimensions 1/160, matching my MLP (1/160), that's the whole sorcery. The shop is fortunately still alive so I'll hand them over the complete Kit templates later. Edited February 1, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, after my copy shop has printed out D. Maier's Paper Kit 1/144 (1/150) scaled-down to 95%, I finally have a Crawler Kit 1/160, that I can use with a clear conscience. Since I was not completely satisfied with my first solution for the Pins of the chain links made of steel wire (Ø 0,4 mm x 7 mm), I've also thought about copper wire (Ø 0,4 mm) that should be easier to cut. Besides I've also imagined a kind of stop at one end of the pins so that they couldn't slip out of the Pin Lugs, what had happened to me a few times with my chain. Source: NASA In the real crawler chain, these Pins are secured at the ends by strong split pins, Source: NASA as one can see in this photo. Source: NASA Since such split pins are illusory at my bolt diameter of Ø 0,4 mm (1/160) I had to find another solution, I have fiddled together with my friend Arno (McPhönix) about. At that we came up with silver-plated copper wire(Ø 0,4 mm), which he has on side, which one could squeeze and bend flat at one end, by which the pin would be secured. He has sent me a bundle of wires and a few bended samples from them, which I've then immediately tested, whereby I've shortened the bended end to approx. 0,5 mm, which is completely sufficient as a stop and looks quite acceptable. For the final assembly, however, it is advisable to shorten the pins on ca. 6 mm before threading them, as no overhang is required on the inside of the pin lugs and one can't cut off anything afterwards anyway. And with a little skill and a suitable pair of tweezers, these short pens can also be pushed into the pin lugs, and the chain can also be bended around the Main sprocket. For squeezing the wire ends, however, one needs a good flat-nose pliers, which, however, should have no grooves at the ends, what the usual pliers unfortunately have. Therefore it should be better using an Adjusting pliers, as my friend advised me, who is familiar with it. And now still a preview to the Airbrush spraying of the chains, which raises the question of what is the better way to go, either to paint the mounted chain, or airbrushing the Track shoes before assembling the chain, whereby I'm trending towards using the first variant. Now I'm curious what the airbrush freaks think about it? Edited February 8, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Glad you found a solution to your sizing dilemma. Painting on the sprue guarantees you'll be painting twice as you'll need to touch up sprue cuts, sanding marks and handling scratches, and may clog up connecting-pin bores? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 Hello Joe, nice that you get in touch once again, and thanks for your advice, which reinforces my point of view. I also think that airbrushing the Track shoe Sets before assembling the chains would only complicate everything else and could clog the tiny openings (Ø 0,4 mm) for the connecting pins, which would mean a considerable effort for their post-processing. On the other hand, I also think that it should be feasible to use Airbrush spraying to apply thin layers for priming and painting (possibly different colors) to the pre-assembled chain and then to mount it on the truck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, and with that once more back to the connection of the Track Shoes of the Truck chains with suitable pins, for which my friend Arno (McPhönix) now had sent me lots of wire ends (57 pieces, approx. 17 cm long) of his silver-plated copper wire (Ø 0,4 mm), which I had already tested and found to be good. And for the squeezing and bending the "barbs" on the wire ends to adumbrate the safety split pin, he also sent the already discussed adjusting pliers, which he has specially modified for precise working accordingly, for which I would like to thank him again. Because he's meant well and wanted to make sure that the amount of wire required both for experimentation and is also sufficient for making the required 456 (8x57) connecting pins for the 8 Truck chains , he has sent an ample supply that would easily be enough for two more Crawlers. In order to get a better feel for the processes involved in the production of the pens, I made further preliminary tests, especially for a good fitting of the pens in the Pin lugs, and determined the required length of the pins (with barbs) through 4 Pin lugs, which should be approx. 6 mm. In order to get away from the stressful piece production, the exciting question now was to find a technique that could be reproduced with as little effort as possible to handle with this Sisyphean task and its handling in order to ultimately create connecting pins (6 mm) to be able to produce at least partially in small series with a short, squeezed and bent barb, which wanted to be carefully considered. With this technique, it should be possible to handle as many pens as possible at the same time in sections of the making process, so as not have to make the same hand grips 456 times as in a medieval manufactory, which would horrify me, although this cannot be avoided for the squeezing and bending. Strictly speaking, several questions had to be clarified in advance in the order of the operations. - To which lenght do I cut the wires before squeezing and bending the wire ends, each wire individually, or several at once? - Is it worth buying such a not very cheap Miter Cutter,for cutting plastic profiles, balsa wood and soft metals, whereby I had flirted with a similar model, The Chopper, already oftener? Source: rai-ro.de It would be conceivable that with this cutter a row of wire ends lying next to each other could be cut to a certain length with one cut if their position was fixed with tape to prevent them from slipping. And I suspect that these thin and relatively soft copper wires could also be cut with this robust device. The more I think about it, the more I'm tending to buy this solid Cutter guillotine, especially since for the Crawler a number of plastic profiles (including with miter) are to cut reproducible, especially since the very convincing video gives cause for justified hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbnnIJSJDmA - How do you bring the squeezed flat and bent barbs reproducibly to a uniform length of only approx. 0,5 mm? Certainly this does not succeed in one step, which is why one would need a small overhang of the squeezed end, which one would have to cut to this final length in the bent state, whereto a tiny defined stop of approx. 0,5 mm would be required. After pondering for a longer time, I came up with the idea, to use a suitable tube with approximately this inner diameter for holding the pins (Ø 0,4 mm), which if possible should have a wall thickness of approx. 0,5 mm, which would correspond to the length of the bent barb after it has been cut. Since brass tubes in this diameter range usually have a wall thickness of approx. 0,2 mm, I had to select two tubes that fit into each other, whereby I've glued the thinner tube (Øa 0,7 mm) into the outer tube (Øa 1 mm), in order to get a handy holder of 30 mm length in this way. Since the bent end of the pin is still a bit too long in this state, I've cut off the overhang along the pipe wall with the chisel cutter, whereby this shortened barb was created, which I am content with. Then I've laid the pin with the barb into this steel ruler angle set to 6 mm and have cut off the overhang at the end of the pin to the final length. Also for this the Miter Cutter would also be suitable for this purpose, which has an adjustable stop, if it were possible to glue the pens next to each other on a strip of tape and to fix stable at this stop when cutting, and additionally to be fixed from above with a hold-down device. This may sound quite adventurous, but it could be feasible and might have to be tried out. Now I would be interested to know if anyone of you has any experience with this Miter Cutter/Chopper, if so, hopefully not a negative one, because I'm almost on the point of buying such an interesting tool. Edited February 25, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptKirk Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 No experience of this sort of mitre cutter but just stopped by and wanted to say that those pins look fantastic! Kirk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 (edited) Thanks Kirk for looking in on me again. I've bought the RP Toolz Cutter in the meantime and I'm already looking forward to it. Edited February 27, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, and now here is the tool, and as expected and hoped for, it also makes a really solid impression, with a high rigidity of the blade fastened with Allen screws, which is very important with such precision tools! Contrary to my assumption, the cutting blades are not only sharpened on one side, but on both sides (1 mm). I also still had ordered 5 replacement blades (0,25 mm and 0,3 mm). After looking at the part from all sides, I've of course also tried it out with different Evergreen profiles, such as: - Tube Ø 5,6 mm - Rod Ø 4,0 mm - Box profile 3 mm x 3 mm - Strip 3,2 mm x 1,5 mm And as one can see, the quality of the cuts is really impressive. Here is a Miter cut (45°) through a H-Column (3,2 mm), as well as a cut through a Balsa strip (2 mm), across the grain, which is also completely problem-free, as one can see. In addition, according to the description, this cutter should also be suitable for soft metals, which I've tested with my silver-plated copper wires (Ø 0,4 mm). For this I've put 5 wires next to each other and set a length of 10 mm with the side stop. So that nothing could slip, I've only temporarily fixed the wires with a steel ruler, that could also be clamped if necessary, and then did cut with one cut, which is easily feasible with this diameter. Maybe it is possible that the number of wires per cut can also be increased, which should be tested. With it nothing should stand in the way of producing the needed Connecting pins for the Crawler chains. On closer inspection, I noticed two more drilled holes on the back of the lever, which there are probably not without reason there. Since the dealer (Rai-Ro) could not answer that, I will inquire about it at the producer RP TOOLZ. So much for my first impressions of this great tool. Edited March 3, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I'm really looking forward to se the Crawler come together 😊 Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 Thanks Jesper, The preparations are complete now, but lot of work is still waiting for me ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, hardly asked, and the answer came from RP Toolz already, according to which other blades can also be used. While for the Miter Cutter German Martor blades are used, one can also use these Stanley trapezoidal blades, which with 0,65 mm blade thickness are somewhat more robust and suitable for coarser material. And for clamping these blades the two central threaded holes are provided. Source: amazon.de With it one could probably cut thicker wires made of soft material too. Edited March 3, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, yesterday I've received this photo from RP Toolz showing one of the matching Stanley trapezoidal blades with a blade thickness of 0,65 mm, Source: RP Toolz (Peter Horvath) which one can order here at amazon, Source: amazon.de which I've done right away too. Edited March 4, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptKirk Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 That's a nice design touch. The RP etch folders look rather good too. When will we see some chain links? I'm not hurrying you Manfred - just want to make sure I don't miss it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 I think you mean the RP Photo Etch Bender tools, Kirk, right? Haven't you seen my test chain yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, to try out these Stanley blades, I've ordered 10 pieces, which have already arrived. While the holes (Ø 2,9 mm) of the Martor blades fit exactly to the threaded holes of the Miter cutter, surprisingly there were problems when clamping the Stanley blade because the distance between the two recesses does not quite match that of the threaded holes in the new cutter. As a result, the blade can only be screwed tight with difficulty and does not sit optimally too, which would be problematic regarding the tool life of both the Allen screw and the threaded hole of the cutter. Since a complaint regarding the Stanley blades would not be expedient, I could try to widen the left recess (3,4 mm) a little, which I've also successfully done at the first go with a small diamond round file, whereby this blade could now also be screwed tight, and is therefore ready for testing on the 0,4 mm copper wires. Edited March 6, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Problems don't exist, only challenges 😁💪 Jesper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) That's right, Jesper! What does not fit, has to be arranged to fit! That has always been my motto, I don't give up that easily. At first I tried a normal round file, but steel versus steel was nearly hopeless, which is why I've then resorted to the diamond file. You just have to know how to help yourself. Edited March 6, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, in the meantime I have fiddled around with the production of the connecting pins and, among other things, and have tried, brave as I am, to cut 10 wires all at once to test the limits of what is feasible. I came to the conclusion that 10 mm would be a sufficient length for the cutting and have set the side stop accordingly. In order to be able to slide the bundle after each cut against the stop and to prevent the wires from flying away, I fixed it with several strips of tape, and placed it at the stop. When cutting I had to exert a noticeable pressure with the lever, but then it made Crack, and most of the first 10 pins had disappeared, which then gradually found themselves scattered on the tile floor. It's just good that the silver-plated pins are shiny and were relatively easy to find. So I was just too quick with the matter and hadn't thought of the downholder, which I had actually thought about exactly for this purpose beforehand. And since adversity is the school of wisdom, I've put an 8 mm wide steel block next to the stop for the second cut and hoped for its help, what then also proved its worth. And then it went on easily with the next cuts the same way ... And these first 50 pins are now waiting to be bent and then trimmed. BTW, in this video that I came across by chance, I've seen (I didn't understand anything because I don't speak Japanese) that there is obviously also a double stop for the Miter Cutter, which would of course be helpful for certain things. After that I've asked at RP Toolz and found out that this stop was made for the Sujiborido Company and is only available in Japan. And since I meanwhile have a good rapport with Peter Horvarth due to my interest and inquiries about the blades, he graciously wants to send me such a stop for free, which of course surprised me and pleased me. Edited March 10, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, in the meantime I have also learned from RP Toolz (Peter Horvarth) that the trapezoidal blade from Martor 5233.70 is a blade with 1-sided sharpening and 0,63 mm material thickness, which fits the Miter Cutter, as one can see in this image, so I have ordered 10 pcs. of which at rs-shopping. Source: RP Toolz (Peter Horvarth) The same blade is also available with a TiN coating, but for twice the price (10 pcs. 16,55 €). And therewith the next steps are now the bending & cutting down of the wires, whereby I will proceed as I've described it in my Post February 25. For fun, I've counted the number of hand movements per pin and came up with 11 just for bending & crimping, which I hadn't suspected initially! - Holder tubule into the left hand - Pin into the right hand - Threading pen into the tubule - Taking crimping pliers - crimping the pin end - Putting pliers aside - Placing the tubule with the pin onto steel ruler and bending the crimped end - Taking chisel cutter - Cutting off crimped overhang (2x) - Putting chisel cutter aside - Ejecting the pin from the tube Next please! In addition there are now still approx. 5 further hand movements during cutting off the crimped barb to the final length of 6 mm, which I will do, however, as a precaution, using a single-cut process so as not to produce too lots of waste. However, I had to give up my previous variant of cutting off on the cutting mat, since my chisel cutter has probably become too blunt and has therefore only bent the overhang, which is why I had to use a sheet of steel as a base, which then enables cutting off even with the blunted chisel cutter, at least until my re-order of new chisel blades has arrived. That is then in total approx. 16 actions, which have to be carried out 456 times, so more than 7.296 in total, in case nothing falls out of my hands during this stressful fiddling. And if I'm honest, I have to admit that I am now shocked myself at this number and thinking about whether I should really do this to myself? I have already been asked about this whether it would not be sufficient to glue the chain links together, at least in the straight areas of the chains. But as a crazy lover for details, I will probably make this extreme effort and not shrink back for fear of my own courage. Edited March 11, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freshnewstart Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Go for it 😁 You'd regret it, if you did'nt 👍💪 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 I think too that's exactly how it would turn out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) Hello everybody, today the continuation of the pin cutting off was on the program, i.e. patience and perseverance were required for this monotonous work ... The box with the pins looks relatively harmless in itself, But the job is pretty stressful, not only for the eyes, but also the back (lumbar spine) because of the constantly stooped posture. But the first 104 of 456 pins are now finished, at least the beginning has been made. Now I can start the next small series, for which I first have to cut off pin-bundles on the cutter to 10 mm and then crimp their ends and bend them into barbs, i.e. the same procedure as before ... The squirrel has a hard time feeding itself ... Edited March 11, 2021 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 Hello everybody, Peter Horvarth, RP Toolz, quickly kept his word, because yesterday his package arrived from Hungary with the promised Double stop for the Miter Cutter, together with two trapezoidal blades, franked with 2270 Forints (6,18 €), which he did post on Tuesday (03/09/21) in Balatonfüred. Look here, that's what I call Customer Service - Made in Hungary! Of course, I installed the Double stop right away, and also the 0,63 mm thick Martor blade (5233.70) with a 1-sided cut. With that I am now also prepared for somewhat stronger things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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