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Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

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6 hours ago, crackerjazz said:

Hi, Manfred, what do you think about brake fluid like they do to strip off paint? Or lacquer thinner (the industrial, hardware store kind). I  have some of Vincent's LM parts I haven"t cleaned yet but I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice one and watch the part dissolve.  

 

Hey Hoe,

 

thanks for your tips, but I have not tried these stuff yet and I do not know how aggressive it would be in contact with FUD.  smiley215.gif

 

Volkmar Meier has tested some Chemical liquids successfully, as one can see in this PDF:

 

 http://www.trolleyville.com/tv/school/lesson5_6/InstructionsCleaning_light.pdf

 

• medical isopropanol (IPA), applied with a brush
• stove cleaning spray
• stain remover for clothing, applied with a brush
• acetone free nail polish remover, applied with a brush

 

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1 hour ago, Frank99 said:

Here are virtual views of Pad 39A with its Shuttle infrastructure and virtual views of the Shuttles on the pad, in the VAB and OPF prior to their last missions.

http://nasatech.net/ntSubPad39A_PAGE.html

http://nasatech.net/ntSTS-133MISSION_PAGE.html

http://nasatech.net/ntSTS-134MISSION_PAGE.html

http://nasatech.net/ntSTS-135MISSION_PAGE.html

 

 

Thanks for your nice help, but I know all these great panoramas.  up040577.gif

 

Unfortunately there is none of Challengers's STS-6i5684_no2.gif

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To give your ET some texture, I came up with this idea for Thermal Protective coatings for General Purpose Mk 80 series bombs. My best friend took my suggestion and used it on his 1/72 scale ET. He won at Nats in 2016!

 

20140725_205445.jpg

 

20140725_205459.jpg

 

A few layers of paint softens the stone paint creating a nice foam texture.

 

20140731_015425-1.jpg

 

Tracy

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Posted (edited)

Hi Tracy,

 

this Textured Finish looks like that which Bill (niart17) has used for his 1/72 ET. Maybe you mean that?  smiley215.gif

 

up043092.jpg

Source: arcforums.com (niart17)

Edited by spaceman

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Hi Spaceman, no it wasn't me who won Nationals! Wish it were but I'm not at that level. The stuff I used was multi-color textured paint. I think it's a little less grainy than the stone texture and seems to scale closer in 1/72 scale IMHO. The stone texture is a little heavy.

 

Bill

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Hi Bill,

but on the occasion the question, how did you remove the wax residuals out of the grooves of your 1/72 WSF Intertanksmiley215.gif

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The white strong flexible (WSF) parts don't use wax supports because it's printed out of powdered plastic, they just have a slight powdery residue when shipped. I just washed them lightly in dish water and let them dry for several days since it sucks up moisture like craxy. For 1/72 scale, the grainy texture of the WSF parts actually works out and looks very similar to the texture of the real tank so there wasn't a need to get them smooth. I'm not sure how that would translate down to 1/144, the grain size may be a bit too much that small. 

 

Bill

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Thanks Bill,

 

is your PM box full, because I wanted to send you a PM and the answer was: niart17 cannot receive messages. smiley215.gif

 

Do you have some more photos of your finished 1/72 Shuttle stack with your outstanding WSF IT, where one also can see the LO2 Press. Line on the LO2 ET?

 

I have only this one from you.

 

up043093.jpg

 

BTW, have you printed special Ice/Frost Ramps for the LO2 ET or have you modified the Ramps printed for the LH2 ET?

 

uINhNI.jpg

 

Thanks,

 

Manfred

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Hi again Manfred, sadly I still haven't finished this build. For the ramps, the ones on the intertank are printed with the tank, but the ones on the LOX portion of the tank are just scratch built from sheet styrene. I'll have to put the bracket section on once the lines are attached.

 

I'll check my pm and see if it's full when I get back to my desktop. Thanks for letting me know.

 

Take care 

Bill

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Hello everybody,

 

the more one deals with the problem of cleaning of FUD-prints, the more partially contradictory opinions can be found, especially regarding the use of Acetone. rolleyes.gif 

 

While this substance is recommended by Shapeways itself, analintruder.gif how has been previously shown,

 

bvlB4C.jpg

 

other users advise against it categorically, or warn of danger, such as Model Monkey,  nono.gif

 

It is all the more astonishing that at Shapeways no more precise information on the application (time, temperature, etc.) let found, wherewith they oversimplify the matter themself, because quite so easy, as one writes, it is not. i5684_no2.gif

 

That's why I did a test with Acetone.

 

Without thinking of something bad, I have put the 2nd IT into the ultrasonic bath, poured in my bottle of Acetone (250 ml) and turned on the timer, followed by a rather violent reaction, and the bubbling acetone became quickly milky-cloudy, which rather surprised me. smiley215.gif 

 

When lifting the IT in the bath, I noticed a slight sticking to the floor, but which could be solved. But since the reaction has unsettled me a bit, I switched off the timer after about 3 minutes and put the IT in a water bath. huh.gif

 

While the FUD surface seems to be slightly roughened, 

 

f6n9Gu.jpg 

 

at the sight of the basket, I was somewhat startled, who had suffered quite a bit, as one can easily see. eek.gif

 

6gdFeV.jpg

 

I should have preferred to remove it before, up040472.gif but afterwards one is always getting smarter. rolleyes.gif

 

Now still a current message, meanwhile Michael Key also has uploaded an IT-Version in White Strong & Flexible (WSF) without shrinkage allowance, which with € 36,22 is much cheaper. up045518.gif

 

DmvYsc.jpg

 

mrxe8T.jpg

 

Fy5Y3g.jpg

 

8YJcYt.jpg

 

So far for today. up040577.gif

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The White Strong & Flexible(WSF) will have a rougher appearance.  It might be good to simulate the IT's insulation but all the small details will also be rough.  The FUD still might be the better option for this.  

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I know that Acetone melts styrene ... and it looks like your basket is made of something that is susceptible to Acetone.

I am pleased to see, however, that it had no effect on the Shapeways part.

 

And I have to be honest ... I don't understand why you are being so thorough in trying to get ALL the wax off the part. Is it just to ensure that the paint will adhere properly? 

 

Pete

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I can be like that, too, sometimes,  Pete, so I know how Manfred feels.  I can obsess on something and it feels like an itch that can't be scratched.

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55 minutes ago, crowe-t said:

The White Strong & Flexible(WSF) will have a rougher appearance.  It might be good to simulate the IT's insulation but all the small details will also be rough.  The FUD still might be the better option for this.  

 

Hi Mike,

 

regarding the WSF surfaces that's right.

 

While the stringer structure of Bill's 1/72 WSF IT looks awesome, I'm afraid that the fine grooves of a 1/144 WSF IT could merge with each other. hmmm.gif

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3 hours ago, K2Pete said:

I know that Acetone melts styrene ... and it looks like your basket is made of something that is susceptible to Acetone.

I am pleased to see, however, that it had no effect on the Shapeways part.

 

And I have to be honest ... I don't understand why you are being so thorough in trying to get ALL the wax off the part. Is it just to ensure that the paint will adhere properly? 

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete,

 

forget the basket, which is surely comparable with styrene. :rolleyes:

 

But I think, that Acetone superficially solvates the FUD, if you compare these two images, to the left only cleaned with detergent, to the right with the basket killer Acetone, or not? smiley215.gif 

 

HMsRAJ.jpg

 

And your last question is answered by yourself, this is the only reason, because all FUD users claim that no paint will adhere properly on the wax. nono.gif

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Posted (edited)

Hi friends,

 

but there are also opposite opinions as in this impressive contribution Investigating the use of acetone to clean models printed in Frosted Ultra Detail Material by Dave Yale, which I found in the Shapeways Thread Best way to clean frosted ultra detail model for painting?, who has soaked these FUD tables in each case 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 - 50 minutes and longer in Acetone and then examined,

 

acetone03.jpg

 

after which one FUD table only got soft "knees" after 2 h!!!

 

fudtl-01.jpg

 

And here another strange effect is described by Steve Larsen (Model Monkey) et al. in Powder Appearing On Fud After Storage, what one can see on this ship model of one of his customers. cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

crystals-jpg.187133

 

He had used Tamiya acrylic paint which was diluted with Methylethylketone (MEK), what seems to have been the cause of the observed incompatibility with the FUD parts and led to these unpleasant phenomena. eek.gif 

 

Therefore, when cleaning my final Intertank, I will keep my hands off this Acetone and use only the gentler method of detergent/soapy solution, which I could see up close in action last week in the dental lab of my dentist, including post-treatment on more professional equipment, but more on that tomorrow. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman

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Hi friends,

over the weekend I took advantage of the bomb weather and bathed the final Intertank in the sun for half a day. smiley_shining.gif

 

FHwMDG.jpg

 

RP6m22.jpg

 

QkYWtz.jpg

 

Thereby not completely 'exposed' FUD/FXD should cure, which makes it easier to remove the wax. up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

here's my report on my flying visit to the Dental lab last week. cool.gif

 

At my penultimate dentist appointment, I came up with the idea to confront my doctor with my Intertank cleaning problem and to ask if I could not even consult his colleagues in the neighboring dental laboratory. undecided.gif And friendly as he is, he agreed immediately and said that I should just bring along the tank at the next appointment. speak_cool.gif

 

Said done, before my appointment last week, I was in the lab next door and I just happened to get to the nice manager, whom I showed me the original tank on a shuttle photo of the STS-6 and pressed him the Intertank in the hand, together with a short briefing to my previous chin-ups in the ultrasonic cleaning and the necessary parameters, i.e. mild medium (no Acetone!) and about 50°C. top.gif

 

After the impression for an inlay I went back in the lab to the dental technicians 'with bite', as the name ChiliDent suggests already.  up045518.gif  

 

This is the manager, Benjamin Geyer, and next to him on the wall stands a Sonorex high performance ultrasonic bath (Bandelin) with integrated heating.  

 

In this bath, he cleaned the IT in soapy water at approx. 50-60°C for approx. 15 minutes, whereby he carried out several visual inspections in between and  brushed off the detached wax particles.

 

BzxxSd.jpgJoXTTJ.jpg

 

Individual areas with remaining wax residues can then be removed in this Reitel Blast cabin, whereby finest glass beads (50 μm) are used. up045518.gif

 

oWCgtz.jpgKFa6PM.jpg

 

And then the IT can still be thoroughly rinsed with a high-pressure water jet. 

 

G7OnEv.jpgNGMM14.jpg

 

That's how I imagine the cleaning of the final IT for which I have already made a date. These are, of course, exclusive opportunities that I do not have at home and therefore thankfully like to use.

 

One simply just must have a bit luck! up040577.gif

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This ... is one thorough cleaning!  :thumbsup:

 

When the technician inspected the part and brushed off the remaining wax residue, was it a noticeable amount ... or quite minuscule?

This comparison between our home equipment versus Professional quality equipment is valuable Manfred!

Thank you!

Pete

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Posted (edited)

Hi Pete,

 

after he had hosed the IT with the water jet, one did not see at first, how much or whether all residuals have been removed. :rolleyes:

 

But when you look closely, you can see that there are still areas with wax residuals left behind, which shows that the first cleaning was not intense enough, which is why I at home have thrusted them out of the grooves with the steel ruler. 8)

 

pmDsBHbGj

 

0t2fZh.jpg

 

Completely without local mechanical post-processing of these fine grooves, it does not seem to work, or one has to invest more time  and care in the ultrasonic cleaning before. up040577.gif

 

I'll definitely take that into account when cleaning up the final IT in the dental lab and will also look closer into the grooves.  cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

Therfore keep on fingers crossing til the end! JC_doubleup.gifJC_doubleup.gifJC_doubleup.gif

Edited by spaceman

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Hello everyone,

 

as you can see on my outfit, I wanted to try sharper things today to finally cope with those annoying wax residuals. analintruder.gif

 

PJ0heP.jpg

 

In the already mentioned PDF of Volkmar Meier for the cleaning of FUD/FXD-Prints he had i.a. even presented Stove cleaning spray as an effective remedy and seemingly successfully applied, which has made me curious. smiley215.gif

 

UQcOrn.jpg

 

In order to test this initially rather unusual method on an IT, I contacted him by e-mail in France,  smiley203.gif to find out more about his procedure, to which he has surprisingly answered in German, which I almost suspected according to his name. cool.gif

 

The spray in his image is the DecapFour from Henkel available in France in the blue box containing caustic soda lye, shocked.gif and therefore is to be used with caution, which is why one absolutely should wear rubber gloves!

 

He sprayed the models outdoors on a baking sheet from all sides with the oven spray and waited until the foam has dissipated, about 30-60 minutes. Then followed by one, two lukewarm water baths, where he scrubbed the models with an old toothbrush.  up045518.gif

 

In Germany there is a comparable spray under the name Sidol, which I got in the supermarket,

 

4izbC8.jpg

 

and had to test it immediately in the garden, let's go! andiearbeit.gif

 

fMbxfd.jpg

 

First of all, the IT in the box was vigorously foamed from all sides until it was no longer visible.  cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

PdDseb.jpg

 

Vydc3X.jpg

 

And then I waited eagerly for the foam to finally dissolve ... up035091.gif

 

UZLUEr.jpg

 

But when nothing had happened after an hour,  

 

Kwk7gv.jpg

 

I got the tank out of the box and scrubbed it in the water bath around with the toothbrush for a few minutes.

 

McaxNE.jpg

 

And because it was just so beautiful, I almost continued with myself, but I was just now able to hold myself back!!! 00000016.gif  

 

rfNIZa.jpg

 

Fun aside, because after the tank was dried, the disillusionment came promptly. rolleyes.gif 

 

As you can clearly see, there are in addition to clean areas still with wax residuals, smiley_worship.gif both between the stringers, as well as in the fine grooves of the Thrust Panel, and especially under raised details such as the Access Door and the two Fairings.  hmmm.gif

 

f8ChZ4.jpg

 

aVR1HI.jpg

 

Furthermore, it is noticeable that the stringer grooves of the rear half of the tank are clean, whereas those in the front half still contain wax, which I can not explain.  i5684_no2.gif

 

AlCBRr.jpg

 

That's why I grabbed the steel ruler to remove the residuals, which is possible, but very tedious and therefore not the yellow of the egg. huh.gif

 

0D6JHp.jpg

 

But maybe someone of you has an explanation for that.  up040577.gif

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Thanks for your tips, Joe, :worship:

 

these are the helpful advices of Steve Larsen (ModelMonkey), to which I have already referred. up040577.gif

 

And the "air eraser" mentioned by him is an Airbrush mini sandblasting gun like this one.


34178_1.jpg

 

The industrial version of this sandblasting gun is the Reitel blast cabin at the ChiliDent Lab at my dentist where my IT has already been treated, what I have posted on Wednesday last week.

 

up062693.jpg 

 

up062695.jpg

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I'm astounded at the variety of techniques you've used to get this wax off ... from Caustic solutions, Ultrasound (home and professional), toothbrushing after oven cleaner to high pressure air blasts.

And there is still residue?

What kind of wax is this? Is it not really wax but some other type of support material? If it is 'just wax' can it not be melted in water?

None of this makes sense to me ... if the 'wax' is this impervious to Oven cleaner and Ultrasound, maybe paint won't damage it ... and if it does, would paint thinner successfully remove the 'wax'?

I'm baffled by all this Manfred ... but it's good to see you still have your sense of humour!  

Pete

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