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Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)


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3 hours ago, Aussie-Pete said:

No but the angle bracket and shade can be

That was my idea too. All those pesky parts are 'easier' to make, and (most important) at the required size and shape. Modeling in 3D might be a bit tricky, but in the end it's just another trick that requires some training and experience.

but like I said, you may get more satisfaction out of the creation process with your own hands instead of 'just draw it and push a button'. It's a simplification, but in the end, that's what it boils down to.

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Firstly Manfred, how are you feeling? Is the shoulder totally 100%?

 

Secondly, this angle bracket solution is brilliant. Your solutions always bring a smile to my face ... your ability to think "outside of the box" is remarkable! 

Plus, taking the time to document every step and post it all to 3 or 5 different sites is most appreciated by all of us who are watching and learning from your journey. The time you spend Thinking of a solution, Building that result and Posting those results is ... incredible!

 

Thank You!  :worship:

 

And you 3D proponents, can it really make a 0.7mm x .0.7 mm angle as perfectly as has been demonstrated by Manfred?

Is the resolution THAT good? Just curious ...

 

Pete

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11 minutes ago, K2Pete said:

And you 3D proponents, can it really make a 0.7mm x .0.7 mm angle as perfectly as has been demonstrated by Manfred?

Is the resolution THAT good? Just curious ...

For modeling, you'd need a resin (SLA) printer. That has superior resolution and much more detail than filament printers. I've just seen a 'budget' SLA printer that has a resolution of 62micron. Should be enough for most applications 🙂 

I'm interested in 3D printing as it can really help building models, making parts to make it more realistic. Currently, I don't really have the space for a 3D printer. Also, resin printers are a health hazard...the resin is poison, so you need gloves, face mask (ohwait...) and good ventilation. You have to clean the result in alcohol and all the stuff you used for printing. So, while it's handy, it's a lot of (dirty) work. I might take it up one day though.

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12 hours ago, K2Pete said:

Firstly Manfred, how are you feeling? Is the shoulder totally 100%?

 

Secondly, this angle bracket solution is brilliant. Your solutions always bring a smile to my face ... your ability to think "outside of the box" is remarkable! 

Plus, taking the time to document every step and post it all to 3 or 5 different sites is most appreciated by all of us who are watching and learning from your journey. The time you spend Thinking of a solution, Building that result and Posting those results is ... incredible!

 

Thank You!  :worship:

 

And you 3D proponents, can it really make a 0.7mm x .0.7 mm angle as perfectly as has been demonstrated by Manfred?

Is the resolution THAT good? Just curious ...

 

Pete

 

.7mm? I've made smaller but there are limitations.
It's not for everything. But in cases like this where lots of parts are required then 3D would make it simple.


I have been building Submarines of late at 1/350. Parts are small and dropping one on grey carpet means never seeing it again.
This is where 3D comes in. No more missing parts (to a point depending on modelers ability)
This propeller is 3mm tall and 4mm dia. Blade thickness is well under .7mm. They are soft and flimsy when printed but after curing are like thorns.
resolution can be as fine as .01um on my photon. This propeller was at .03

Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate Manfred's awesome modelling. No doubt he's a master modeler. 
 

50302335298_5ed04a6fc4_o.jpg

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16 hours ago, mikephilippens said:

That was my idea too. All those pesky parts are 'easier' to make, and (most important) at the required size and shape. Modeling in 3D might be a bit tricky, but in the end it's just another trick that requires some training and experience.

but like I said, you may get more satisfaction out of the creation process with your own hands instead of 'just draw it and push a button'. It's a simplification, but in the end, that's what it boils down to.

If I had Manfred's talent and patience I would not have gotten into 3D. 
I did it because I saw Oli Brauns SpaceX stuff but postage is horrendous to Australia so thought I'd give it a go. 


It's like playing a musical instrument. 
You can learn a lot on your own but you need a course to be a master or a lot of years on your own.


The thing with 3D is it costs nothing to draw and edit and re draw to get the design right. Draw once and print thousands. Massive saving in time.
I could draw the light shade and bracket in less than 10 minutes and have it printing in 20. How many? 30 on my print plate.

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On 9/3/2020 at 12:14 PM, K2Pete said:

Firstly Manfred, how are you feeling? Is the shoulder totally 100%?

 

Secondly, this angle bracket solution is brilliant. Your solutions always bring a smile to my face ... your ability to think "outside of the box" is remarkable! 

Plus, taking the time to document every step and post it all to 3 or 5 different sites is most appreciated by all of us who are watching and learning from your journey. The time you spend Thinking of a solution, Building that result and Posting those results is ... incredible!

 

Thank You!  :worship:

 

And you 3D proponents, can it really make a 0.7mm x .0.7 mm angle as perfectly as has been demonstrated by Manfred?

Is the resolution THAT good? Just curious ...

 

Pete

 

Thank you Pete for asking how I am and my shoulder too. :worship:  I'm feeling well, have no pain, and I could let start rotating my arm windmill again ... top.gif

 

Thanks also for your great compliments and for the admiration of my work, which almost embarrasses me. smiley208.gif

 

But this variant with the folded aluminum bracket will probably not win the race, because it does not seem stable enough to me and the effort seems nearly overdone too. Therefore it was more of a feasibility test than seriously meant. cool.gif

 

In addition, I really have to rein my mania for crazy details and concentrate on striking details and leave out less important ones. hmmm.gif And with these four lamp holders, the last detail is less important, but rather that they serve the purpose and hold the lampshades. And with a length of approx. 2 mm, they can hardly be seen behind the lampshades anyway ... cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

I was rather more likely a bit too euphoric about my discovery that ultimately it was angular profiles what immediately has started my scaling and scratch generator. Therefore a simpler and more stable solution has to be found, as I have already demonstrated with the round rod. 

 

For comparison I have added a Brass angle profile (1,5 mm x 1,5 mm), which, however, seems too big to me in terms of proportion.  smiley215.gif

 

up073259.jpg

 

In short, I will probably use an Evergreen rod (0,7 mm x 0,7 mm), which fits well with the lampshade, is easier to  glue together and should allow a stable hold. up045518.gif

 

up073260.jpg

 

Let's see  ... up040577.gif

 

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And now to you both 3D Printing experts, Aussie-Pete and Mike, and thanks guys for your proposals. :worship:

 

I have nothing against 3D Printing, and for special complicated parts like the ET-Intertank (special thank to Michael Key), and for the 16 Main Sprockets and especially the 456 tiny Crawler Track shoes analintruder.gif (special thank to Joe, crackerjazz)  this technique is very recommended. Otherwise, however, I now trust myself to scratch apparently impossible things and don't want to get out of practice. top.gif

 

Regarding your impressive 3D printig skills, Pete, it sounds like it's child's play. But if you think that you could draw the lampshade and bracket in less than 10 minutes and have it printing in 20, then you could print a small series of 30 pieces. smiley250.gif

They should then have a hole in the lampshade of approx. 0,5 mm in order to be able to thread the two 0,1 mm LED wires. The angular holder schould be approx. 10 mm long.
 

I have estimted the diameter of the Reflector of about 2,8 mm in my scale 1/160, which I have estimated for the lamps on the Side 1 of MLP-2, using the width of the vertical girders (1,5 mm) of my MLP as reference measure. This diameter (Ø 2,8 mm) I've used as reference measure in this image of a typical lamp of the RSS together with other interesting dimensions for scratch building.

 

qup4T4.jpg

Source: NasaSpaceflight.Com (James MacLaren)

 

BTW, from the NSF Forum I meanwhile know that Crouse-Hinds was the main lighting manufacturer for NASA from the 50's to the early 80's ... top2.gif

ExMhUY.jpg bLVkKG.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Now I'm very curious already, Pete, let’s get ready to rumble! up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Thanks Pete for the quickie. :worship:

 

I know that macro shots look a bit rustic, and you can certainly still improve the look too.


What is the wall thickness of the lampshade and of the angle profile? Can you show us the 3D model? :hmmm:

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Hello everybody,

 

finally, the wires (0,1 mm) with the LEDs (0401, 0603) have still to be threaded into the prepared lampshades and glued with UV glue whereby they are sealed and kept safe forever. top.gif

 

L2kMld.jpg

 

SZywdE.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Besides to these two lampshapes as on the MLP-Side 1, there are each on the RSS and on the transition from the FSS lots of these arc lamps, which were mostly mounted on the handrails, 

 

ETp8uv.jpg
Source: James MacLaren (39B) NASASpaceflight.com

 

whose rustic spherical shape from the Revell Launch Tower Kit I've already "admired" during my first lamps stocktaking analysis. lautlach.gif

 

up038048.jpg 

 

It looked already better with my lampshade, huh.gif but compared to the lampshade, the stanchion with Ø 1 mm seemed to be oversized to me. smiley215.gif

 

up038051.jpg

 

On the basis of this photo of my Pad 39B expert James MacLaren, the dimensions could be estimated fairly precisely, using the diameter of the MLP lampshades (Ø 2,8 mm). Only the length of the upper pipe bend (3,1 mm?) should be a little longer due to the shortened perspective. huh.gif

 

YQMfzZ.jpg

 

From this it can be seen that the curved stanchion with Ø 0,4 mm may actually only be about half as thick as that of the Revell lamp, which I had suspected. top.gif

 

WGN4cK.jpg

 

In order to stay roughly on scale, I will use a brass tube with Ø 0,5 mm (0,09 mm wall thickness) into which I will pull in the two LED wires (0,1 mm) expediently before bending the pipes, because this is not impossible in the bent state, 

 

up038780.jpg

 

but much more difficult is what a stressful test unfortunately showed me impressively. up043952.gif

 

2KvYS6.jpg

 

And with a little bit patience and a steady hand, one can even scratch the cable loop on this arc lamp, making the lamp come pretty close to the original in my opinion.  speak_cool.gif

 

oPJKnx.jpg

 

I don't want to blaspheme, but when I see the Revell arc lamp I inevitably have to think of the fairy tale of the "ugly duckling" ... top.gif

 

And since we are dealing at the moment with dimensions, I would like to briefly refer to the help of my friend James, who I asked about the dimensions of the lamps and the diameter of the handrails on the pad, since at that time he was there day in and day out during building up Pad B. 

 

In this way I wanted to clarify whether the diameter of the MLP lamps with shade (Ø 2,8 mm, 1:160) is right and roughly corresponds to the RSS arc lamps estimated by using my STS-6 reference photos, especially since Ø 2,8 mm corresponds to a real diameter of the lampshades of approx. 450 mm, which seems pretty big to me ...  hmmm.gif

 

In his detailed answer he started with the handrails, which, with a few exceptions, had a diameter of Ø 1,5" = 38 mm = 0,2 mm (1:160) on the entire pad. 

 

With reference to the data sheet Steel Pipe Specifications Schedule 40 he then referred to the fact that the Ø 1,5" refers to the Nominal Size (IPS), which corresponds to an outer diameter of Ø 1,9'' = 48 mm = 0,3 mm (1:160). up045518.gif

 

Furthermore, he also pointed out a small but fine difference in his photo, on which one can see in the red circle, that the stanchion of the lamp is attached to the handrail tube with two round steel brackets and has a slightly larger diameter, what I had already noticed before too.  cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

eG9fvv.jpg

 

James assumes that, for reasons of stability, that for these upright standing handrails were used steel tubes with Ø 2"(Nominal Size) with an outer diameter of Ø 2,375" = 60,3 mm = 0,4 mm (1:160), which corresponds to a real diameter of at least approx. 60 mm, which is quite conceivable.

 

And these two diameters, for the stanchions (Ø 0,4 mm) and for the handrails (Ø 0,3 mm) correspond well with those diameters estimated by me, wherewith the diameters of the MLP lampshades (Ø 2,8 mm) determined by me are also quite realistic.  

 

Now it was just a matter of determining the length of the bent end of the stanchion on which the lamp hangs, for which I used another photo of my padblower from its reworked and enhanced NSF thread Space Shuttle Launch Complex 39-B Construction Photos.

 

Gc1RP7.jpg
Source: James MacLaren, Pad B Sories (p. 3), 16streets.com

 

Thereof results a length of approx. 5 mm (1:160), which corresponds with real approx. 80 cm, which seems quite plausible. In this photo one can also see that the stanchion of the lamp is a bit thicker than the tubes of the handrail.  

 

But since all RSS handrails in the Revell Kit have a diameter of Ø 0,8 mm and all FSS handrails even have Ø 1 mm and are therefore all oversized, it becomes clear once again that there will still be a lot of work to be done when I will substitute these handrails with PE handrails (Ship's railing (1:150) with Ø 0,3 mm made by ABER of Poland. smiley_crazy.gif

 

up048948.jpg

 

With this rather sobering outlook, I will leave it at that for today.

 

Nevertheless, friends, nothing is impossible, Strength lies in calmness! up040577.gif

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On 9/6/2020 at 1:01 AM, spaceman said:

Thanks Pete for the quickie. :worship:

 

I know that macro shots look a bit rustic, and you can certainly still improve the look too.


What is the wall thickness of the lampshade and of the angle profile? Can you show us the 3D model? :hmmm:

Sorry just saw this
Grid is 10mm

 

light v2.jpg

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Hello everybody,

 

now that the different lamp shapes on the Pad have been clarified and I know how to scratch them, I wanted more clarity about the wiring of the many LED lamp circles with the power supply of my planned Diorama (1/160, 160 cm x 90 cm). smiley215.gif

 

And my diorama could look something like this Mini-Diorama (1/700) by Tomytec, whose base plate is only 35 cm x 29 cm "big", but had a moon price of 682,30 €, but has been sold out since then. shocked.gif

 

Shuttle_Launch_Pad_Japan_Railways_I_2724
Source: Andromeda24.de

 

At first I had only planned a fixed arrangement/wiring of all pad structures/components in the starting position for the Dio, i.e. with the MLP with the Shuttle stack on the 6 Pedestals next to the tower, as well as with the Crawler on its way before it. 

 

The concept for the power supply for lighting the entire diorama was developed a few years ago in a close exchange with my Raumcon friend Arno (McPhönix), in which the Multi-Currentbank is the central component, which is designed for approx. 60 constant current circuits each with up to 8 LEDs, with which all lamp circuits of the Launch pad (FSS/RSS/Service facilities/spotlights) as well as the MLP and the Crawler are powered.  speak_cool.gif 

 

ysuZBd.jpg

 

This original concept in the meantime has been revised and modified with regard to more location flexibility or Mobility of MLP and Crawler so that not only this one arrangement is possible with the MLP standing in front of the tower, but also during the MLP approach to the pad, like in this photo during the Challenger rollout (December 8th, 1982) in the fog. 

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33194.0;
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com

 

Likewise the cabling between the diorama and the power bank has also been modified so that it can be separated if necessary. up045518.gif

 

uDXyDs.jpg

 

In this context, I initially had a detachable cable connection on the MLP via a small plug-in connector on the underbody next to the Pedestal 3, which I have now moved to the other side and planned for the Pedestal 6 besides the tower, since the whole cabling of the FSS/RSS is also planned on this side and all cables/wires can be led down together to the pad bottom. cool.gif

 

FhQWXG.jpg

 

In order to be able to implement this mobile location concept, we have meanwhile also agreed to install our own power supply (three 9 V batteries) in the Crawler, on what also the MLP can be connected by means of a plug connection if it is in a pulled-out position on it. 

 

Consequently, a suitable location had to be found for an interface between the power bank and the pad cabling, which is shown in this drawing with the connection plate,

 

xuLthp.jpg
Source: McPhönix

 

whereby NASA befriended us with the construction of the pad infrastructure with a small building, as will be shown later. top.gif

 

In order to get a better overview of the local conditions on the Diorama as well as an idea of the size of the space available for the wiring of the pad assemblies, I picked out my former Dio draft, what for I've used an older one Google Maps image (2012) on which was seen the Launch Pad 39A in its original form with FSS/RSS,

 

15MFA1.jpg

 

in which I have drawn the floor plan for the diorama in the Scale 1:160 (1600 mm x 900 mm) and marked the MLP and the crawler. 

 

MAYLG0.jpg

 

Then I've drawn the Dio to scale on paper and put on placeholders for the MLP and the crawler, for which I had to roll up the carpet in the study. And while I kept checking the dimensions on the PC in between, Gino had made himself comfortable at the end of the Flame Trench and began falling  asleep ... s-schlafen-001.gif

 

v7T2Y6.jpg

 

uqA4mG.jpg

 

And since it was already late or early again, we've went to sleep together ... s-schlafen-gaehn02.gif

And with that, good night ... s-schlafen-001.gif

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5 minutes ago, spaceman said:

What's going on here in ARC, why one can no longer edit the own contribution? up037692.gif

 

Once more, sorry friends, I've found the new button! 

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Hello friends,

 

and now let's go from the 2D view into the 3rd dimension, for which I've placed the FSS and RSS of my deceased Raumcon friend Thomas Emberger † (golgi63) onto the diorama floor plan, which I took over as his modeling legacy after his death in order to keep an honorable memory of him on my diorama. May he rest in peace ...pray.gif

 

74DJei.jpg

 

4caUpY.jpg

 

Then I also added my MLP, which rounds out the picture further.

 

vmIaoj.jpg

 

Kq6h4l.jpg

 

But as a precaution I quickly put the MLP away and parked it in the closet. top.gif

 

7mbZ99.jpg

 

eNk9NY.jpg

 

And with that back to the wiring on the Dio plate, which I imagined as follows.

 

The planned interface for the possible decoupling of the MLP has been modified and is now laying on the Pad ground besides Pedestal 6 and takes place via a small Connector (Plug with socket).

 

The LED Lamp circles on the FSS and RSS will all be laid downwards on the back of the FSS, especially because there are already lots of pipes etc. there, so that the LED wire bundles will be hardly noticeable. huh.gif

 

Fortunately, there are also two cable ducts at this point, which I will use of course, 

 

UOU9bw.jpg

 

in order to lead the LED wires to this small building, which was built there that time thanks to the wise foresight of NASA! bow.gif

 

dpAPn5.jpg

 

This concrete structure with blast doors, housed the freight elevator (on the left) and the door to the stairwell (on the right) which took you down to the Pad Terminal Connection Room (PTCR) at ground level, with further access from there to the roadways and parking areas scattered around the pad, as James MacLaren explained to me yesterday. speak_cool.gif

 

2loFMV.jpg

 

And in this building at the back of the diorama, the already shown Connection plate can be conveniently accommodated, which is why I've measured out and scaled it right away, 

 

lQiKeJ.jpg

 

from which all cables are then be led to the Current bank, which also has a plug connection. top2.gif

 

As far as the wiring of the MLP is concerned, the three lamp circles as well as an additional circle for Caution lights are still easily manageable. And for the Crawler Transporter it will certainly be similar, although I still have to do the exact lamp analysis. That should become difficult again, however, since there are only a few images of the MLP-2 Crawler, used during STS-6, let alone still with lighting. hmmm.gif

 

But more on that soon.  up040577.gif

 

Edited by spaceman
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Hello everybody,

 

during my search for suitable ways to wire the LED lamps, I've already looked extensively around some nasatech.net Street View panoramas of the Launch Pad 39A. cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif And since I was there once, I has been going on with further structuring my diorama floor plan, which goes beyond the immediate launch pad area. 

 

The entire Launch Complex 39A (LC 39A) has an octagonal configuration and covers around 160 hectares of land.


WfnAvI.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Due to the associated facet-like arrangement of the huge concrete retaining walls (18°) rising at an angle to the launch pad, which can be seen in this photo, 

8VyXf1.jpg
Source: NASA

 

extensive measurements of the contours and distances including the conversion of the dimensions to 1:160 were necessary, which was quite laborious and time-consuming. rolleyes.gif

 

For such measurements, however, one needs the most exact reference dimensions possible, which can be used as a basis, for which even the scales in Google Maps are only partially suitable, as I have found. huh.gif

 

Therefore as a reference dimension I have chosen the width of the Flame Trench given in NASA Facts Online of 58 ft = 17,68 m ≙ 111 mm (1:160)  and have drawn the contours calculated with it in my Dio floor plan. top2.gif

 

Ld02Dv.jpg

 

In this image one can see how close the MLP on the Crawler is standing next to the tower. 

 

ulRWcc.jpg

 

Then I've started to deal with the SSWS inlet pipes in the back corner of the diorama (red frame), 

 

gCAHom.jpg

 

which are connected with an elevated water tank standing on a tower, which has a capacity of 300.000 gallons (1.135.620 liters) and a height of 290 ft = 88 m ≙  550 mm (1:160). shocked.gif

 

Zr26S2.jpg
Source: capcomespace.net

 

Then I've tried to print out a copy of this place with the bizarre pipe system that was as true to scale as possible in order to stick it onto the Dio floor plan, which is problematic without precise knowledge of the pipe diameters. rolleyes.gif

 

Sx5Ymw.jpg

 

However, the copy ends right in front of the tower, which was clear to me from the start when planning, but now it didn't want to like to me regarding the perception because it would certainly look somehow strange. analintruder.gif

 

cq4uGq.jpg

 

But since the water tower is a striking detail next to the launch pad and should therefore not be missing on the diorama, I've decided to add a small extension at this point of the Dio, on which the water tower also has space, which certainly rounds off the overall picture, which Gino does not seem to be very impressed with. smiley250.gif

 

thu0mg.jpg

 

Before determining the dimensions of the water tank I have to get an exact reference dimension, because I only know the height of the tower (290 ft ≙ 550 mm (1: 160), and that the water flows through pipes with a diameter of 2,1 m to the pad.  smiley215.gif 

 

qN6pYP.jpg
Source: NASA

 

And to determine the tank diameter or other diameters from a height is unfortunately too error-prone, as I have already found elsewhere. smiley_worship.gif

 

So I have to do some more research to be sure. up040577.gif

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Manfred, sorry for this slightly off-topic question. As you know, I'm planning to build a Challenger too. Mine will be a tribute to the fatal flight ST51L. I may start this winter 😉

But I want to do it right, and although I'm not blessed with you patience and certainly not your skills, I want to make a good attempt. So I'm trying to gather as much reference material as I can. I have the external markings guide from AXM and the Shuttle Stacks graphics guid, SIM3 and some documents about the tiles and thermal blankets. So that's the general painting guide covered. But we need detail... 🧐

But I'd like to have some more photographs. I searched and searched, but I get lots of photos of the other orbiters (obviously, since some of them are on display now) but relatively little of Challenger. And most of them are low quality. I'd like to see how the various discolourations looked like on the orbiter prior to the launch. I have a nice one showing a lot of detail, but that's taken straight after the last landing, so it looks worse. After that, it goes through processing and most of the burning marks are gone.

I know NASA has dumped lots on Flickr and I've looked through that. I have found some there, but not very much. In total I have less than 60, and 25% is from other orbiters and another 25% is low quality. Some of the more useful photos show great detail of the tiles, windows, cargobay door hinges and such. 

Do you know of some resource where I can find high quality Challenger photos?

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