spaceman Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 Hello everybody, well, the smaller the details to be scratched, the closer you have to look to see their shape and being able to determine the needed dimensions. As you can see in this image section, the Holder sockets are in the form of small U-profiles in which the handrails are articulated. Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (STS-9, Ares67) Since this photo shows the canister used during STS-9 (11/1983), it can be assumed that these Handrails and Ladders already existed at the time of STS-6 (04/1983), but unfortunately I don't have any direct photos of it. On the following photos of the Launch pad during STS-6 it looks like this, Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6) because you can see the holder sockets at least with high magnification, like here atop of the canister hanging in the RSS-Payload Bay, and here during the exit from the Vertical Processing Facility (VPF). Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6) In this drawing I've finally determined the dimensions of the holders. Source: James MacLaren, Page 52 And as you can plainly see, they are indeed tiny and, according to my previous idea, should each consist of four parts, which is why for 18 holders only 72 snippets would be needed. Well that can still be going funny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptKirk Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Hi Manfred. I must have missed your previous idea because I'm not clear why each is four parts? Could each bracket not be made from a small section of U-shaped channel? I assume (probably incorrectly) that you don't intend to have working pivot pins - but if you did, that would still only be 4 parts per rail section? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Hi Kirk, thanks for your tip and that you have ruminated about it and want help me. I've immediately thought of my narrowest Evergreen profiles too, but both the H and U shapes are 1,5 mm wide, which doesn't match the delicate Handrails. Then I took a Channel profile which is 1,3 mm wide and compared it with my version (right) which is 0,9 mm wide, using 0,2 mm thick strips for the sides, which looks like this. I think if I would cut a strip (0,13 mm x 0,75 mm) for the sides it should look still a little bit better, still closer to the real size determined in the drawing, although it's more effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptKirk Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Even with the help of your giant 1 cent (😁) and the scale on your cutting mat, I often forget just how tiny all these pieces are. At the moment, my head is in 1:24 world, so please ignore any stupid suggestions I make!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 No problem Kirk, 1:160 is a little bit smaller, if you want so from the Underworld. The dimensions determined from the NASA drawing are decisive, whereby the blue dimension (diameter of the handrails) is my reference dimension. BTW, please ignore the blue 12, it comes only from copy and paste. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Hello everybody, originally I had immediately thought of my narrowest Evergreen profiles, but both the H profiles and the U profiles are 1,5 mm wide, which would not match to the filigree handrails. Then I've compared a Channel profile (1,3 mm) with my planned four-part variant (right), which, when using strips (0,2 mm x 0,75 mm) for the sides, is approx. 0,9 mm wide, which looks more pleasing in combination with the round rod (Ø 0,45 mm) of the handrail struts. And if I would cut a Styrene strip (0,13mm x 0,75mm) for the sides, it should look even better and even closer to the size specified in the NASA drawing get there, what would mean a bit more effort. So I've tried to scratch such a Prototype. But it's already not easy to cut a 0,75 mm wide strip, but which I managed to do. I then placed this strip upright on the ruler angle, clamped the Base strip (0,25 mm x 0,5 mm) in front of it and then both strips were carefully glued by using MEK at their connecting line. Then I glued a small strip onto the other side, and let it dry. Then I've carefully cut off a 1 mm long part from this U profile with a razor blade, which actually succeeded with the precautionary placed Jump away-Protection tape (left). Now only the small end piece had to be glued and trimmed, whereupon the test fitting of the first Mount on the handrail could take place. Although the feasibility of the Prototype could be shown in principle, I have in mind a smarter solution for scratching of the remaining 17 mounts, by what the effort should let be reduce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 (edited) Hello everybody, is there anybody in there? And thus to this new variant for the production of the Handrail brackets that I have been thinking about. The idea behind it is actually simple and based on the production of such a U profile with a greater length, from which I then carefully cut off small 1 mm long pieces and close on one side. Thought and done, gluing the side strips (0,13 mm x 0,75 mm) to the base strip (0,25 mm x 0,5 mm) took place again in the proven manner by fixing between the rulers. Such a Steel ruler is also ideal for aligning the U profile, which happens to be 0,5 mm thick as on commission. Then the U profile was glued to the end strip (0,13 mm x 0,8 mm), which I deliberately left a little longer and fixed flat. However, since my steel angle for the vertical alignment of the U profile offers much more support, I then chose this arrangement, which made the gluing much easier. For final fixation while the Revell glue was drying, the deck ruler was moved to the stop, whereby the U profile was glued perfectly. For the separation of the end strip I've thought about this special fixation on a small steel block, after which the razor blade was used. To complete the bracket, only the end piece (1 mm) had to be separated from the U profile, for what I needed five rulers for fixation, which I arranged in such a way that I could now use the razor blade to score at least the upper edge of the two side strips on the 1 mm line, which only has a minimal overhang (0,25 mm), wherefore I had to take a close look myself with the headset magnifying glass over my glasses, assuming a steady hand. For the final separation of the mount I only had to be able to recognize these fine incisions, which is perhaps just visible here on this macro shot at an enlargement of 3553x2665, therefore here again somewhat larger with marking. When making a cut with a razor blade, the Jump away Protection tape is important in addition to a steady hand, which again has proven itself! The advantage of this variant is that I can now use the remaining U profile to make another nine mounts in the same way, wherewith the half would be done already. Edited March 18 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptKirk Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 hours ago, spaceman said: Hello everybody, is there anybody in there? Should we nod if we can hear you? Or do you need some information first? 🤣 Very, very cunning plan to make such tiny parts so accurately. Had you ever considered being a vascular surgeon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Manfred, I'm here. lol Excellent work on all these parts. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, CaptKirk said: Should we nod if we can hear you? Or do you need some information first? 🤣 Very, very cunning plan to make such tiny parts so accurately. Had you ever considered being a vascular surgeon? Wait and see, maybe in my next life ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, crowe-t said: Manfred, I'm here. lol Excellent work on all these parts. Mike. Thanks Mike for looking in on me again after a longer time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 20 minutes ago, spaceman said: Thanks Mike for looking in on me again after a longer time. I may not post a lot but I'm always looking in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Thanks Mike for your staying interest in the background. I can understand you, what should you keep writing again and again too about such a long time ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 I read every one of your posts. As you know I've been following your build since day 1 and haven't missed anything. This is such an incredible build. It's amazing how you started building the paper kit and have taken it to this level of accuracy. Keep up the incredible work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Hi Mike, you are one of my most loyal companions all time and I know you've been in there from the start, which is why I looked back. That was 11 years before almost to the day (03/15/2012), what a long and memorable time to look back on fondly. And you were the second interested modeler after Bill (niart17) to reply that time. You also recognized early on the difficulties of the scale dilemma and raised concerns about the size of the SRB Blast chambers and TSMs that I only later realized after the Shuttle stack was test set up on the MLP. And that then led to the first larger emergency surgery of expanding the Blast chambers and using larger TSMs (1:144). In this respect, we were already fellow sufferers back then, because you also grappled with similar scale problems with your outstanding Revell 1/144 Space Shuttle stack as a tribute to Discovery's STS-133 mission and had to make compromises with the Revell MLP, which was simply too small. Source: EDU-Craft Diversions But there is a solution for everything, just don't give up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 (edited) Hello everybody, let's go on with the production of the tiny Handrail brackets, which are held up the progress quite a bit, since you always have to let the glue dry before you can handle them any further. In the meantime I have arranged the steel block the other way around when cutting off the end strip, as this way I can better control the cut with the razor blade. The tricky separation of the U-profile can also be done in different ways, which is why I tried out a few things and switched to a larger sheet of steel as a base, which makes handling easier. And so it goes on step by step, re-clamping everything again and fixing it differently, over and over again, just don't let up ... Now it's also easier to score and cut off the tiny ones, and the U-profile is getting shorter and shorter ... The half is done, but a few brackets are also a little on the short side, and some still need to be adjusted in length, but which is doable. That's why I've prepared another U-profile, which I can now use to tackle the second half of the brackets, so hopefully I'll end up with 18 usable parts for the 8 Handrails. Edited March 21 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 (edited) Hello everybody, and with it to the Final Cutdown. This was the chosen arrangement for the second half of the brackets for cutting off the U-profiles (1 mm) that I had previously scratched and marked with a pencil, here after careful cutting with a razor blade under sharp eagle eyes. And that's my valuable yield of 20 mounts (2 reserve) with approximately the same size. I had imagined the gluing of the mounts onto the handrails to be a little easier, but firstly it turns out differently, and secondly than you might think. As you can see in this image, the mounts are open at the front, so I have to glue the handrails rotated 90°, unlike I thought before. How good that I compared again. Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (STS-9, Ares67) The consequence of this, however, is that the gluing again requires a special fixation and I have to be hellishly careful that no holder flies away. That's why I have to glue each holder individually and with great sensitivity by using MEK, whether I want to or not. Although handling these tinies is indeed quite a fiddling, with the necessary calm and concentration one can do it! And so the handrail can then be glued to the Payload Canister. That's why I always say: Nothing is impossible! One just shouldn't set any limits! Edited March 24 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 (edited) Hello everybody, today the Mounts were glued to the other three-legged handrail, wherewith the row at the bottom of the canister is complete. Then it was the turn of the two vertically arranged handrails above it, which have two mounts and were done more quickly. And so the image slowly completes, whereby I also still hinted the Personnel door through which one can arrive the Canister Payload Bay. Now only the mounts on the four upper railings are missing. Edited March 25 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted Sunday at 01:48 PM Author Share Posted Sunday at 01:48 PM Hello everybody, and these Mounts were glued today. At it the most difficult step was pushing the Handrail feet into the tiny mounts, which is why I "sharpened" them slightly. Then the gluing followed with MEK by carefully wetting the mounts with the finest red sable brush (10/0). This also finished the third Handrail pair, and could be placed on the template for fitting. It was finally the turn of the last couple, whereby the whole set is finally complete. And in this arrangement, all eight Handrails could soon be glued to the canister, as well as the Personnel door. http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif So that nothing happens to them until then, I quickly brought them to safety in this little box. http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up050224.gif That's it then again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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