Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

[K2Pete]

I don't know what browser you are using, but you should be able to zoom it something more higher, in order to see the ladder cages more largely.

Oh, the image is nice and big, but what I meant, is your ladder cage is so-o-o small. Any slight differences would be almost impossible to see at 1/160.

I would love to see some of your other models Manfred!

Pete

[spaceman]

Thanks Pete for your compliments, but the slight differences would not only be almost impossible to see at 1/160. They are also only difficult to recognize by the original ladder cage on photos, how will directly see it.

Therefore I want to solve the mystery now, and you will be astonished.

I admit gladly that it is also not completely simple to recognize the difference which I did not notice at all also long time.

The right (new) ladder cage has 2 vertical bracers just more than the first cage left, i.e. 7, to hardly believe, isn't it? But truely, look at the last picture again exactly

With regarding the ladder cages it always depends on the point of view, and there is all too often the case that bracers totally overlap by the cage roundness every now and then and/or that one sees a bracer exactly from its narrow side, where it appears to one then nearly only as line and therefore during counting will survey. But I looked at meanwhile a lot of such photos (if possible HiRes) and again and again measured the details at the screen, and only by it one slowly receives then so an experienced view for it by accurate to then look.

Favorably for it therefore photographs of the side are, less favorably photographs directly from the front are, because the lateral bracers are not to be recognized there nearly.

With the differences of the ladder cages with the MLP's 2 and 3 in the comparison to the MLP-1 I do not want at all to deal now, whom it interests, which can inquire, the difference is only slightly, but nevertheless saliently.

At first I counted also only 5 and/or 6 bracers. Therefore here again an enlargement of a well-known photo, on which one can recognize the 7 props just as still separately despite the blur, admitted with somewhat good will, and/or if one knows it then, it is not a problem. Therefore now to taking in account from 1 to 7, whereby one should pay attention to the shadow and back tapers

And now eagle eyes, attention please!

source: NASA

And the difficulty for the eye at the latest now becomes clearly with recognizing the individual bracers, hopes I nevertheless at least, because middle 4th and the 5th bracers are to be only recognized separately by the experienced eye as thin lines. May be for someone that it is now nearly already like as nitpicking, or?

Whereupon I came by checking the distances between the bracers on photos, which should amount to converted on 1:160 only approx. 1.4 mm, which had appeared to realize me at first with the building of the first cage as nearly impossible. Therefore I had distributes only 5 props evenly at the extent with the first attempt, outgoing from middle bracer. From this then bracer distances of nevertheless approx. 2 mm resulted with the first cage, which is a little to much.

Therefore I decided to distribute with the second cage with exercise and somewhat more skillful technology 7 bracers at the extent which is quite still feasible, as one can see. And now once more look again exactly at the picture with the two ladder cages and you can count 5 bracers to the left and 7 to the right cage, isn't it?

Clearly, the difference is not noticeable anyway nearly, if one does not know it. And therefore I will use the ladder cage also still in other place of the Pad.

And at the opportunity to the end still another small supplement for the sake of completeness. At the left Access Platform was added still another cross-beam between the two outside diagonal bracers, which was still missing so far. And in this recess at the corner of the platform, which is by the way missing in David Maiers kit also, then the left ladder cage sits.

[crowe-t]

Manfred, You are hitting every last detail on this build! I can't wait to see how you build the launch tower and the shuttle stack.

Mike.

[spaceman]

Thanks Mike for the flowers,

that is again and again surprising, the longer one good photos looks at, to more details sees one, which one could try to scratch-build, that is nearly like a drug for the fingers, isn't it? You know, what about I'm speaking.

[PHIL25102]

magnifique give us more !!!!!!

[spaceman]

Hi all together,

the today's post is more a consideration in preperation for further steps than strong building, what however can be quite also helpful. In addition I out-looked for myself now the LH2-Pipe supports for the Side 4 of the Paper kit, which looks similar as the LOX-Supports on the Side 2, whereby there are however some differences:

On the one hand there are even 10 supports on this side, however only with two openings for the two LH2-Pipes, and on the other hand they have different overall heights, which makes the work more difficult naturally already somewhat. If one looks exactly, one can recognize that the distances of the pipes in the supports become larger from left to right, thus from Side 1 to Side 3, and thus the support heights of LH 4 A to LH 4 J gradually rise. Best one can recognize by the increasing strength of the small middle bars between the pipes, which are represented only as stubs in the Paper kit, strange to say again why not continuous.

The first four supports LH 4 A-D are equal high, afterwards the height up to the last support LH 4 J rises gradually altogether by 4 mm.

While the LOX Pipes on the Side 2 runs almost parallel to each other, the LH2-Pipes runs to the rear increasingly apart thereby, which one clearly can see in this photo.

source: NASA

From the constructional structure the Side 4-supports resembles those on the Side 2, why for the support frameworks again I-beams 1,5x1,2 mm are used.

And there we straight with Pipe supports are, there are also still special supports at the MLP corners, which look different all, but are noticeable to one first hardly. These supports serve for the stabilization of the line sheets at the corners of the Side as well as the connection points for the Pad inlets at the corners of the Side 3 and are to give an absolutely firm connection. Here are a few photos of it:

Here at the corner of the Side 1/Side 2,

source: Jay Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

at the corner of the Side 2/Side 3,

source: NASA

at the corner of the Side 3/Side 4,

source: NASA

as well as at the corner of the Side 4/Side 1.

source: NASA

In the Paper kit one sees, how small these four corner-supports are, so that it would probably hardly be noticeable, if one would omit it.

And here the associated assembly sketches:

I still considering whether and/or how I can scratch-build these corner-supports best from Sheet.

Edited December 12, 2012 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Manfred,

I never realized how many small details there were on the MLP. You have a good grasp on this and I'm sure you'll come up with good solutions for the corner supports.

Mike.

Edited June 2, 2012 by crowe-t

[Zombie_61]

Manfred, when I started reading this thread earlier today and saw how you were incorporating the paper model parts as a backdrop for the plastic parts you added on sides 2, 3, and 4, I thought it was simply a brilliant idea. If I'd known then how much further you were going to proceed with this concept on side 1, I would have put on a helmet to protect my brain. Your attention to detail is impressive, your methods are imaginative and creative, and the results you've achieved are truly inspiring! And your good-natured and often humorous posts have made this thread a genuine pleasure to read. I look forward to seeing your continued progress on this project!

[spaceman]

Hi Mike and Zombie,

thanks for your encouraging words and compliments, which make me happy and incite me making further in this style. I know that somebody consider me a little bit crazy and find that I nearly go over the top with my detail infatuation.

And I don't want to deny that scratch building of smallest details provokes me again and again because it is very interesting and really makes a lot of fun. And in addition I must also concede that the technical background interests me extraordinarily and therefore I'm constantly looking for good HiRes-photos and share them with all of you. And if my occasional humorous kind to write pleases you, then all the better. And therefore let's have a good time all together.

[spaceman]

But before it continues to go with the Pipe supports, only still the second Ladder cage for the other corner of Side 1 was tackled, here is a picture of the preparation of the longitudinal prop shutter, which is then put around the core.

In this fixed condition by masking tapes if necessary the distances between the longitudinal props can be balanced with the tweezers some more.

The rings are already wrapped as you can see, are now scattered and then glued in the best way in the gaps around the longitudinal props.

And thus the two ladder cages are also managed and can go in the paint shop.

Now I have trial bent the LOX-pipes for the corner-flow on the Side 1/Side 2, after I previously made somewhat docile it with the hot air dryer and made a first provisional fitting while the correct pipe supports on the left pallet of the Access platform but still missing.

And finally even a small addition to the Expansion Joints in the LOX-pipes. Now I have provided me lead wire with the appropriate diameter of 0.4 mm for the grey Vent line and made a pro covering. And that goes with the lead wire as lubricated, which is soft, allowing even balancing the coil slope.

And since I probably or evil anyway must divide the pipes into segments due to the expansion joints, I still stamped flange discs (Ø 3 mm) from 0.5 mm sheet with a croppers coming left and right next to it. Overall though something can be expensive, but because of the pipe support unfortunately unavoidable. The pipes just push through the supports, would be too easy.

And, one could imagine the smaller expansion joints in the white Transfer line as a package of three such discs with small spacers, similar to the next image.

But maybe I should better take somewhat thinner sheet (0.3-0.4 mm) for these discs.

[Zombie_61]

I know that somebody consider me a little bit crazy and find that I nearly go over the top with my detail infatuation.

Some people think we're all crazy just because we build models. "Why go to all that trouble? I've seen those already built in the shops." I feel a little sad for those people. They'll never know the satisfaction of being able to say, "I built that!" rather than "I bought that."

And in addition I must also concede that the technical background interests me extraordinarily and therefore I'm constantly looking for good HiRes-photos...

This is true for me as well; the research can be as much fun as building. I know more about the Space Shuttle now than I did two weeks ago, and I can't imagine how much more I'll know by the time I finish building my kit. It's truly an incredible machine.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Zombie_61

[spaceman]

You have absolutely right, and you're talking about me from the heart. It's really an engineering marvel and fascinated me time and again on the new one, the more I learn and I see more pictures or videos. This is what inspired me, and what is always pushing forward.

[mark31]

Great work and liku u said good reference are importend.

I follow your work maybe one day i will start also a LMP.

Keep up the good work.

Mark

[spaceman]

Thanks for the nice words Mark,

that's a great idea, in which scale do you plan your MLP, scratch-building all or from a Kit?

[mark31]

Thanks for the nice words Mark,

that's a great idea, in which scale do you plan your MLP, scratch-building all or from a Kit?

I was thinking for scale 1/72 to turn the paper model in to plastic..

I only have trouble with finding the space shuttle with boosters.

Found some on ebay but the shipping cost are almost the same as the kit.

Then hoping that customs costs are not to high.

Mark

[spaceman]

Hi Mark,

how would it be with this offer from Germany by Andromeda24.DE for 79,95 €?

This is the great Monogram Kit Shuttle ET/Booster Maßstab 1/72.

source: Andromeda24.DE

That can be done surely quite and might be nevertheless affordable, or not?

Then you could start directly.

[mark31]

Thanks for the link and looks like agreat shop.

I let u now when everting is here to make a start.

Mark

[KJam]

This has been one of my favorite post to watch for sometime. I would really like to see this in person one day. Keep on keeping on!!!

[spaceman]

@Mark:

Okay, then we will wait so long!

@KJam:

I don't know where you are living, but go past, you are cordially welcome.

[spaceman]

So, but now it really goes on with the Pipe Supports on Side 4. Because the LH2 Pipes on this side with 2.5 or 2.0 mm have bigger diameters than the LOX Pipes on Side 2, therefore also the pipe supports are slightly larger and more stable than on Side 2. I had described in detail the differences already in a previous post.

A peculiarity of the Side 4-Pipe supports is that the grey LH2 Vent Line rest on roller bearings, while the white Transfer line rest on normal cups with Teflon pads. The different bearings and more robust implementation of the Pipe Supports in particular to the end of Side 4 is beautifully seen on this photo.

Source: NASA

The size differences between the supports on Side of 4 (rising from left to right) and those on Side 2 (same size) become again clearly visibly in the next picture on the basis of Back up-Templates of the Paper kit.

On the next picture you can see some of the used profiles, as well as my mounting template. For the frame I used I-beam 1,5x1,2 mm and for the cross bracers Evergreen strips 1,5x0,25 mm and 0,75x0,25 mm.

And because the pipe supports are so tiny and one don't look at how much effort still stuck in them, their fitting is to show more detailed in the following pictures:

First, the two vertical parts of the frame are positioned on the template.

As favourable for glueing using a spacer bar turns, so that the distance between the parts of the frame and thus support width is always the same.

Afterwards, the two upper narrow cross bracers (0,75x 0,25 mm) are glued, were measured slightly longer for the better handling during Superglue-bonding and therefore easily survive. Before glueing the bottom wider cross bracer, but it remains the slanted framework piece must be glued because its position is covered by the broader cross bracer.

To do so, the spacer bar is taken from the template and the support removed. Next the slanted piece of frame can be prepared, tailored and then glued.

And now also the lower broader cross bracer can be glued.

And then the cross bracers on the other side of the support are glued in the same way.

And now missing only the bearings for the pipes. Here I indicated the bottom roller bearing with an U-beam, 1,7x 0,9 mm, and for the upper bearing an Evergreen strip 1,5x 0,25 mm was used. For size comparison, you can see above the last missing support from Side 2.

These are only nice small parts, but also want to be configured only once, and that takes some time.

[spaceman]

Today only a small update.

And despite the Football European Championship is still some time for smaller works, and that in the truest sense of the word, because the first four Pipe supports on Side 4 are not longer than 15 mm.

And the two LH2 Pipes fit through the holes with the supports, so all okay.

And, as already described, the next support is then somewhat longer than the first four.

[crowe-t]

Manfred,

The Side 4 supports look like the real thing! Very precisely detailed.

Mike.

Edited June 12, 2012 by crowe-t

[spaceman]

Thanks Mike for the nice words.

And it continues with the remaining six Pipe supports for the Side 4. As already mentioned, the supports on this side are making little more work because it from the front (Side 1) after rear (Side 3) become gradually longer, and therefore for the parts again and again measure must be included.

A support consists of 11 parts, so that total as 110 parts were to process. This was a pretty hard job, but now it's finally done, and my stressed eyes can recover somewhat.

From left to right, you can clearly see the increasing length of the supports despite slight blur.

By the fact that in addition to the length of the supports the middle cross bracers from the front to the back are gradually increasing, the LH2 pipes run necessarily somewhat apart, what but so must.

So, therefore a certain dry spell has been overcome now, which has held up pretty, and after painting the supports, pipes on both sides can be shifted then finally. I will warn the guys in the paint shop ever, that they should do the job despite the Football European Championships quickly so that it can go further.

Edited June 17, 2012 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Manfred,

That's a lot of work you've been doing and it's sure paying off.

What's next after the MLP is finished? Will you be starting the Launch Tower or the Shuttle stack?

Mike.

[spaceman]

Thanks Mike for the compliment.

As you know, the MLP is not ready yet, since there is still a lot to do, the LOX/LH2 Pipes and Valve Skids, the SSWS and the TSM's ...

But then I will probably start with the Launch tower. With the Shuttle stack I'll wait until you have finished your stack.