Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

[spaceman]

Thanks Pete for your truly refreshing comment, which made me also laugh out loud.

But it's all no problem, as long as I do not have to rip out my last hair for scratching such thin pipes ... 

BTW, you surely know the proverb: Beggars can't be choosers. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by spaceman

[spaceman]

Hello everybody, 

 

this is certainly a rather demanding and complicated undertaking, which would in any case require a suitable holding jig to be able to paint this wire bundle by airbrush in a first step.

 

Meanwhile I have fiddled around with a solution and have also an idea already.

 

One would have to reproduce the girder structure of the Side 2 from Bay 8 to Bay 1, which can be seen in this image,

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

as a kind of template made of Balsa with the tiny supports strips on girder dummies, and glue the wires on it, whereby the front ends as well as the rear ends should have to be angled already and fixed somehow.  

 

The other pipe supports, sitting on feet on the side wall, would have to be painted and glued separately, and then one could glue the painted thin bundle with the support strips onto the girders and the other wall supports, and also lay around the corner.

 

This sounds surely a bit adventurous and perhaps it's hard to understand too, but maybe it's possible.

 

The difficulty results from the minimal distances of the four thin wires from only 0.2 mm on the 1.5 mm short support strips.

 

This filigree arrangement of the wires I have tried to apply now. First I used spring steel wire 0.1 mm, which is unsuitable because the wires are magnetically attracted by the tweezers. But with nickel silver wire 0.1 mm it was possible and looks like this.

 

 

This is my momentary idea, but maybe it's also too crazy and cannot be realized, therefore I'm still a little bit sceptical, although my feeling tells me that it could work ...    

Edited June 20, 2017 by spaceman

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

while the holding device assumes more and more shape in my mind's eye, I also have to understand the course of the Fuel Cell Pipes, especially their starting points on the Side 2 in the Bay 7 (GH2) and Bay 8 (GO2), as well as their further course to the MLP corner and then on the Side 1.  

 

For this purpose here are a few pictures for illustrating the wiring course, for the sake of simplicity, just behind the corner on the Side 1, whereby the two upper lines are the GO2 Pipes, and the two lower ones the GH2 Pipes. 

 

Source: NASA

 

While the two GO2 Pipes are running below the Blast Shields to the LOX Tunnel, the two GH2 Pipes run downward in front of the Blast Shield and then below the AccessPlatform up to the LOX Pneumatic Interface Plate in the Bay 6. 

 

And so it should fully suffice if I let end up the pipes at the circled places, especially since one can not see their further course on the model.

 

But regarding the starting points of the Pipes on Side 2 in Bay 7 and Bay 8, it's still not quite clear in detail, because one can not recognize it exactly enough, which is why I initially thought that the pipes would come out of the MLP wall.

 

Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)

 

And even this image, which reveals more details already, cannot give a more exact explanation.  

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

It is only clear that the two GH2 Pipes in the Bay 7 running down close to each other, while the two GO2 pipes in the Bay 8 run with a significantly larger distance.

 

But then suddenly I remembered, that there is a NASA panorama with a great view of the Side 2 of the MLP-2 from Level 75 on the FSS, on which these two bays might be visible more detailed.

 

And lo and behold, quite right, and therefore here the ultimate shot with the linked panorama,

 

Source: NASA

 

wherewith (now) almost all the uncertainties for scratching should be eliminated.  

 

As can be seen, the pipes start on an angle profile and then take a multiple angled course upwards, and follow after merging in the Bay 7 as a quadruple bundle to the right up to the beginning of the side.

 

As coming from NASA's plans, the circled jacks are Moisture Sensors, and one can even see how the pipes are bolted to the angle profile.

 

Source: NASA

 

And with that the matter looks already much more friendly.

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

the Fuel Cell Pipes are put aside and let's look again to the Bay 18, 

 

 

in which are still to install the through-sleeves and connection sockets of the three ports for the ECS purge lines.

 

Here is again the original using the example of the MLP-1.

 

Source: NASA (Street View)

 

These are the painted and shortened parts,

 

 

 

and here on the tailor-made insert.

 

 

And here ist still the GN2 line with the blind flange. The eight screws I tried to hint with a fineliner, but what not still convinced me.  

 

 

But the next attempt was already better.  

 

 

 

Since the through-sleeve (Ø 1 mm) was somewhat too long, it was inserted into the wall,

 

 

and then the insert was finally glued over it. 

 

 

The GN2 line was initially inserted only temporarily, since its installation height must match the height of the connection sockets, 

 

 

which were subsequently glued.

 

 

 

And with this result, I am now quite satisfied, although the too bright red could be mitigated by a final Washing. But a small thing is still missing, if one looks closely, namely?

 

Exactly, the labelings above the three ports are still missing and have been added by carefully removing the color with the cutter.

 

 

Fortunately one must not be able to decipher them.  

 

And here once again for comparison, how the ports looked before in 2D ...

 

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

before it goes on in the Bay 17 with the upper console with the two connector sockets,

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

I've been busy myself with the gutters and initially corrected their lengths based on the the MLP-3 photo,

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

which differ a little bit from the values previously determined at the MLP-1.

 

With the Gutter-3 (Ø 10'') above the Bay 18 I had already started.

 

 

When dimensioning the strips for the gutter, one has to take into account that it does not have a semicircular cross-section as in ordinary guttering on the house, but rather that it extends somewhat beyond the semicircle, as can be seen in this image,

 

Source: NASA

 

which is why the strip should be slightly wider than half of the diameter, approximately 4 mm.  

For molding the strip of 0.1 mm aluminum sheet over a core wire with Ø 1.5 mm this Rolling Set (thesmallshop.com) is suitable, in which the strip can be bulged in a first step.

 

 

In order to mold the gutter to the final diameter, I have also tried my Balsa clamping method from the SSWS Pipes.

 

 

For the first tests, I also used the wrapping foil of a champagne bottle cork.  

 

 

And as it looks like, this method should also be suitable for the molding of the longer gutter parts.  

 

At the same time, I have also tried to use a thin Styrene foil (0.15 mm) because plastic might be advantageous for gluing the supports under the gutters, which would make them more stable.  

 

 

But since the plastic strip is less ductile than the aluminum strip, it is not easy to buckle it.

 

 

And even after the hot air shower in the Balsa-"Corset"

 

 

 

 

the result was not so amazing,

 

 

which is why I will probably stay with the aluminum sheet.  

[johnbuck]

Well hi Manfred,

After such a long absence from the Forum I have made it finally to your topic and your last postings.

You Sir are a remarkable gentleman.  Not only first class scratch building skills ( was particularly impressed wth the rainbirds and the SSWS system, quite superb ) but the ability to stick to the project itself over such an extended time period.....extraordinary.....   Are you never tempted to digress ?

It has been a delight Manfred catching up with your on-going project....thank you

I am lost for superlatives...........

Cheers

JohnB

[spaceman]

Hi John,

thank you very much for your flattering attempt of praising me to the sky. 

Your question is absolutely justified, because of my extraordinary attention to detail the danger is actually very big to digress and get bogged down. 

 

BTW, I also realize that I'm tending more and more to smaller details, what is like a drug, and in this sence you might say that I'm a Detail Junkie, okay ... 

 

But don't you worry! It is still a lot of fun to me and day by day a new and great challenge, although the completion of my long-term project in this way recedes into the distance ... 

 

And with that I can live well, which is why I also deliberately did not set a deadline to me. 

 

BTW, in this sence challenge and Challenger make a good match ... 

 

 

[spaceman]

Hello friends,

 

the devil is just as always in the details.

 

Just when I wanted to start with the tiny supports for the gutters, 

 

 

I have noticed that I have to correct the dimensions once more, because I noticed a thing only now, which I have so far overlooked.

 

The gutters have indeed the same diameter (10'') over the side length of the MLPs, but their height in the first and last bay strangely diminishes outwards as you can see in this image, if one knows it, otherwise it is not striking.  

 

But on the linked HiRes image one can see it more clearly, if one follows the alignments of the gutter.  

 

Source: NASA

 

In the Bay 18 I then took measurements, and as you can see, the height difference is about 0.5 mm, which is not much, but at least.

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

And then still to the gutter supports, which are fixed on the girders, as can be seen in this picture.  

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

Merely the outer supports at the sides end differ in shape as one can see in these images, at which the lower flange is missing.  

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

Therewith everything should be clear now for scratching the gutters.  

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

here quickly an image of an other test of a support on a gutter fragment.

 

 

These supports must then still be glued onto short Evergreen Strips 0.25 mm x 0.75 mm and then glued on the 17 girders below the gutter, what again will only work with CA.

 

Probably I will already previously glue the supports below the gutter, then paint everything together and finally glue the complete gutter.

 

Thus far for the moment to the theory!

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

somehow I still miss the right bite for this gutters chapter, but it does not help, so I have to swallow this pill ...  

Therefore, I first have drawn a template for the making of the gutter parts, which is unfortunately somewhat pale,  

 

 

and then I have cut a further sample strip for the Gutter-3 from a champagne cork foil, which slightly tapers to the corner, in order to get the appropriate gradient of this gutter part.

 

The punched opening for the downspout (8'') is located at the beginning, immediately next to the girder at the end of the Bay 17, as can be seen in this image.

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

And this stripe I then have pre-molded step-by-step on my Rolling Set,

 

 

by using core wires with decreasing diameters,

 

 

 

down to the last groove,

 

 

with this intermediate result.

 

 

For further molding of the gutter, I then have pressed the gutter with the core wire vigorously into a foam strip, 

 

 

whereby unwanted kinks can be avoided, as can be seen.  

 

 

Between two balsa slats the rounding was then still somewhat equalized. 

 

 

Since the wider strip end inevitably gets rounded a little too far using the thinnest core wire (Ø 1.5 mm), the gutter part has been equalized again over a rounded plastic strip (5 mm x 1.5 mm) in order to obtain an U-shaped profile.  

 

 

 

Here the gradient of the gutter can be seen very well already. 

 

 

And here one can see the Gutter-3 in the side view with the prepared bended downspout, which is running into the downspout at the end of the Bay 16.

 

 

 

After this successful attempt, I can now also make the final Gutter-3 from the aluminum sheet (0.1 mm).  

 

The Gutter-2 will then be formed in an analogous manner, but this time immediately from an aluminum sheet strip of 99 mm × 5 mm, since its height is the same over the entire length. 

 

That's it so far, and thanks for looking.  

Edited July 7, 2017 by spaceman

[spaceman]

Hello everybody, 

 

it goes on with the gutters.

 

The fact that the test results with the short gutter parts were quite promising doesn't have to mean anything, because whether the rounding of the longer gutters from the 0.1 mm aluminum sheet would be work well too, would still have to be shown.

 

At first the short Gutter 3 at the end of Side 2 (Bay 18) was cut out and its opening punched for the downspout, 

 

 

and also the strips for the Gutter 2 and Gutter 1 (bottom). 

 

 

The dimensions were taken from this image of the MLP-3, because it has almost no distortions and should correspond to the MLP-2.

 

Source: Library of Congress

 

The Gutter 2 starts at the end of the Bay 16 directly behind the local girder and extends to the middle of the Bay 11.

 

 

And then I actually wanted to start with the rounding of the gutters, but previously I had once again compared the distribution of the gutters and the position of the box with the Fire hose reel with the images of the MLP-2 from the collection of John Duncan and suddenly did not trust my eyes.

 

For as one can see on this already known image, the Gutter 2 is running up to the end of the Bay 11,   

 

[/img]
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)

 

and must therefore be slightly longer than the already cut strip, namely 107 mm instead of 99 mm. Only good that I had compared once again.  

 

 

So a new gutter had to be cut, which was done quickly.

 

 

And now the stepwise rounding of the parts could finally get started, 

 

 

initially again with the short gutter part up to the lower groove, and then with the longer part,

 

 

 

what could have been made even relatively well up to the rounding in the last groove, although it would be better if the Rolling Set would be slightly wider.  

 

 

Thereafter, the short piece was gradually further rounded, first on the foam strip, 

 

 

and then between the balsa boards up to the core diameter of 1.5 mm. 

 

The further rounding of the longer gutter was then somewhat more difficult because it is longer than the core wires, which has led to unsightly kinks, especially during rounding on the foam strip, which should be avoided, however, since they are difficult to remove.

 

That's why I've tried it on the cutting mat, but for this one needs a tight clamping in order to press with the Balsa boards from both sides, but this has not worked so well. 

 

 

After that I have the gutter again somewhat widened and tried it once more with a longer plastic profile, only the plastic is of course not stiff enough, 

 

 

which is why I have stopped for the moment.

 

But, of course, I will not abandon immediately, rather I will try it again with longer core wires, wherefore you could keep your fingers crossed, if you please!  

 

Maybe one of you still has a smart tip for me, which would be very helpful.  

[spaceman]

Hello together,

 

here I am again, but unfortunately with the previous low point of my gutter-rounding ...

 

 

And what does one say thereto?

 

I had just cut off a longer brass core wire (Ø 2.0 mm) and wanted to try again, to smooth the little dents, but a longitudinal kink which meanwhile had developed caused by the multiple rounding of the strip was then too much for the thin sheet, which unfortunately has broken up, caused by material fatigue ...  

 

And what is that teaching us?  

 

Unnecessary back-and-forth bending should be avoided as far as possible, and stepwise be rounded in only one direction, which I will now try again cheerfully with longer core wires and a new strip.  

[spaceman]

Hello friends,

 

since these crazy gutters are always on my mind, I am constantly pondering how I can master them ...  

 

And then tonight during a cool wheat beer (Cheers!!!) I hit on an idea,   that in my very first attempts to build such gutters I had used the smallest available Styrene half-pipe (Ø 3.0 mm), on the left in the image, which was however too big for my 1:160 scale and was quickly put aside.

 

 

But this half-pipe could at least be a suitable support for the final rounding of the gutters with the 1.5 mm core wire after the last groove in the set,

 

 

 

which would be long enough for the longer gutter parts, what I will try as next.

Edited July 13, 2017 by spaceman

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

here briefly to the current state of the plumber works.  

 

Today I have made a few longer half-pipes as a support for the first roundings of the longer gutters, by halving pipes (Ø 7.5 mm and Ø 6.0 mm) with the precision saw. 

 

 

And in this way the roundings can be formed much more evenly and, above all, without larger dents or even kinks.

 

 

 

So it looks much better than yesterday, 

 

 

and is still increasable, which makes me confident.  

 

And as it looks so far, there could still be a happy ending with these gutters.  

[spaceman]

Hello together,

 

since I was still not satisfied with the last rounding step to the final gutter diameter of approx. 2.0 mm, I have tinkered at a better solution.

 

At first, I have made a few longer core wires for the longer half-pipes to get the curves evenly over the entire length.

 

 

With the last core wire of Ø 1,5 mm I get with the 0.1 mm aluminum sheet to approx. 1.7 mm, only I had to widen the gutter again and again, since the top edges are always rounding slightly again. With my previously used rectangular strip (1.5 mm x 5 mm), however, this did not achieve uniformly enough, especially with the longer gutters.

 

That is why I have sanded a 2 mm balsa board on one side down to a thickness of approx. 1.7 mm and rounded the edge in order to be able to widen the last rounding accordingly and to smooth it, which I have tested then at the end of the Gutter 1. 

 

 

 

This may work in principle for short gutters, but is not a good solution for the longer gutters, since the Balsa board is too little stable in shape over the length and can partly be pressed in. That's why I have choosen another solution with a plastic strip, which is somewhat more complex, but more stable. 

 

But since there is no commercially available wider strips with about 1.7 mm thickness, I have made it myself.  

 

For this purpose, I have cut a handy strip of 15 mm x 150 mm from 1.5 mm styrene and glued on both sides 5 mm wide strips of 0.1 mm Styrene, for which I used MEK, wherewith the composite strip is then approx 1.75 mm thick. 

 

 

The more difficult part was then the smooth rounding of the edge, which took some time.  

 

But with this core strip, it can be handled very cleverly by clamping the gutter into a Balsa "vise" to smooth it, without slipping or tilting.  

 

 

And with this more sturdy plastic core, the desired half-round shape of the longer gutter should be doable reproducibly, which is very important.

 

 

 

 

And if this method now works as well with the longer gutters, which I assume, this would be great.  

[K2Pete]

My gawsh, Manfred, you have such high standards!    

 

Plus your descriptions of your decision-making and choice of moulding material, balsa versus thick styrene, gives us all an insight into the thought that you put into this model.

 

As I've stated before, this is remarkable and a pleasure to watch all these little details come together!

 

Thanx!   

[spaceman]

Hello Pete, my faithful companion, and thanks for your continued interest and the joy of my work. 

I think the best is just good enough and so I'm often striving for the perfect solution, no matter what kind of material is needed and how long it takes, because only the result is important, and nothing is impossible. 

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

before starting with the rounding of the longer gutters according to the new method with the plastic core strip, I have tried here the lateral gutter end from a rounded rectangle strip 0.25 mm x 1.5 mm. The strip will be cut off only after gluing.

 

 

But now to the longer part of the Gutter 1, which was pre-rounded first in the largest half-pipe (Ø 7.5 mm) with an aluminum core (Ø 4.0 mm). 

 

 

And this went on in several stages with diminishing diameters of the semiconductors and core wires, starting with 

 

Ø 6,4 mm, 

 

 

Ø 6,0 mm,

 

 

Ø 4,7 mm. 

 

 

down to Ø 3,0 mm.

 

 

The following rounding with the plastic core strip (1.75 mm) was then carried out on the foam strip,

 

 

and then by pressing it together in the Balsa "vise".

 

 

And then it went on with the 1.5 mm core wire on my "pin board" using my Balsa-Clamp technique, with which I have bent already the SSWS pipes.  

 

By cleverly clamping, the core wire can be held down with the inserted gutter, while at the same time in the interspace the gutter wall can be smoothed almost perfectly by swaying the balsa board back and forth.   And by re-clamping the arrangement one can also reach the previously covered areas of the gutter for smoothing them. 

 

 

The rounding could then be further smoothed on the other also rounded side of the core strip by pulling a fixed rubber over the gutter rounding.

 

 

And this is the result of all this tender loving care,

 

 

 

which can really be impressive and so is also taken from the quality control of the FSC.

 

 

And since I now know the fact how it works, I can calmly dedicate myself to the other gutters.

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

let's have a short break, because I have got an interesting post by a nice fellow (DaveS) in the NASASpaceFlight.com Forum, who has written as follows ...

 

Manfred, I have found something that will require you to go back a few steps. It concerns the grid structure on the north walls of the SRB exhaust holes. It isn't launch equipment. It was in fact a temporary support or bracing structure for the walls when MLP-2 was undergoing some rebuild work back in 2004. I have attached a photo from STS-135 which was MLP-2's last launch which clearly shows that the structure isn't there.

 

together with this image.

 

 

Here is a better photo of his stumbling block, what hasn't been surprising me, because I have seen lots of such images already, and I know them very well ...

 

Source: flickr.com (Jen Scheer)

 

This refers to my previous rear walls of the SRB Exhaust Chambers, as created by David Maier, which can be seen here at the adaptation of the Water Bags.  

 

 

In connection with this this image of a SSWS Test (2004) on the MLP-2 was always on my mind, on which these rear walls are to see. 

 

Source: NASA

 

At some time I had even scratched these grid structures,   

 

 

which unfortunately had fallen a victim to my emergency surgery for the adjustment of the SRB shafts , but which I have kept so far.  

 

But since I decided to install the Water Bags, I had to renounce it for reasons of space and therefore I used the rear walls from the Paper Kit. 

 

Interesting would be the question to David Maier, why he decided for these rear walls ...

 

As an explanatory answer, I sent DaveS the above picture of the SSWS test and said that the back walls also looked like this after the conversion of the MLP-2 in the year 2004 and probably also before were not different, but what still turned out as a fallacy.

 

When viewing the image series of this SSWS test in NASA Media Archive was clarified to me by the detailed information that 2004 some equipment at the MLP-2 were converted or exchanged, as can be read there ... 

 

This test is being conducted following the replacement of the six main system valves, which had been in place since the beginning of the Shuttle Program and had reached the end of their service life. Also, the hydraulic portion of the valve actuators has been redesigned and simplified to reduce maintenance costs.  

 

especially because the Shuttle missions after the Columbia Disaster (STS-107, 2003) were interrupted for a year and a half.

 

And in his following answer, DaveS has also confirmed that with two pictures for me comprehensibly.

 

In this image of the STS-90 (1998) the known structure of the rear wall of the MLP-2 is to see,  that means before the overhaul in 2004.

 

Source: NASA

 

This image of the STS-115 (2006) shows the same structure of the rear wall in closer detail in the rear SRB shaft.    

 

Source: NASASpaceFlight.com Forum (DaveS)

 

And if one looks at the following image from the overhaul phase, this frame structure was, in my opinion, should be the uncovered substructure of the rear  wall, onto which the standard wall cladding was installed again after the overhaul, which was the same on all three MLPs. 

 

Source: NASA

 

So I guess that the rear walls of the MLP-2 at the STS-6 at that time also looked like this and I have to redecorate my rear walls accordingly, but that is no problem, because I still have copies of it.

[spaceman]

Then let's go on,

 

of course this was reason enough to mend matters right away, which is gone, is gone!

 

Here one can see once again the old, but wrong rear wall (right) of the SRB shaft from the Paper kit, which is now to be exchanged by a piece from the area on its left, which is suitable very well.

 

 

Here, the two new rear wall panels are already cut out, 

 

 

which were immediately tried on the "High seat", but please with greatest caution!

 

 

And that looks very well already,

 

 

 

and also gives a completely different picture, that I like much better.

 

 

How good that DaveS has still raised his hand, although late, but not too late.

[Slartibartfast]

A nice recovery on a small bobble discovered rather late in your build.  I'm still awed like your other visiters.

[spaceman]

Thanks my friend, 

 

I am always interested in improvements and therefore totally relaxed. 

[spaceman]

Hello everybody,

 

let's go back to the gutters and their supports.

 

These were the first patterns,

 

 

whose proportions were still too inaccurate to me.    

 

 

That is why I have checked the dimensions more precisely with the aid of this photo since I had not considered some of the perspective distortions so far, which inevitably lead to errors. 

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

And afterwards I drew this template with the new dimensions to get an accurate overview.

 

 

And as one can easily see, there is nearly nothing to be detectible in the scale 1:1, but in 5:1 one can see it much clearer, and so the shape could then also be approximately right.  

 

This is now the new support that should fit to the gutter dummy,

 

 

which could fit well.  

 

 

And with that I could go into the mini-production, I think, or are there objections or any hints?

 

But maybe the lower part of this support is still a bit too high ...

Edited July 27, 2017 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Manfred,  The support looks good to me.  I think you got the shape correct! 

 

Mike.

Edited July 27, 2017 by crowe-t

[spaceman]

Thanks Mike,

 

in hindsight the lower part seems almost a bit too high for me, if I look at other pictures. 

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

Source: Raumcon (eumel)

 

But perhaps it is only an optical trick of light & shadow and the viewing angle, because the lower flange always covers a part of the height. 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by spaceman