Otto Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) If you had to chose between Revell/Monogram and the AMT/Ertl/Escy/Italeri AD/A-1 kits, which one of the two would you chose and why. As stated in the tile; Pretend that the Tamiya kits do not exist. Please I do not want to hear "TamIya" mentioned in this thread as an option, only in comparison it may for reference purposes. I am only interested in the membership's opinion of the kits mentioned in the first sentence. The Matchbox kit MAY also be spoken of in this thread. I want to know why, and what the major differences are. The first thing I noticed, was that the cowlings are not the same size, and the variants that can be built with the Esci/ AMT kits. Why do you like the one you DO like? The last thing I would like to add, is that I have multiples of all three kits so. I do not need to be sold. This is strictly an opinion and analytic thread. Also what I would be interested in is if combining the two kits would produce a better kit. Edited March 18, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Monogram. The AMT/Ertl/Esci/Ital. have a really poor cowling shape. The only redeeming value this kit would have to me is the AD-4W version, which has the guppy radome and fuselage parts for that version, and also is the only source of the early style main wing pylons in any scale. Monogram also has an option to fold the wings, although it isn't discussed and you need to do some planning and research to actually fold the wings. The only downer to me re. Monogram is the weapons being molded with the pylons, which makes changing the store load a pain in the neck if one doesn't want Mk-81 daisy cutters, rocket pods and napalm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Monogram. The AMT/Ertl/Esci/Ital. have a really poor cowling shape. The only redeeming value this kit would have to me is the AD-4W version, which has the guppy radome and fuselage parts for that version, and also is the only source of the early style main wing pylons in any scale. Monogram also has an option to fold the wings, although it isn't discussed and you need to do some planning and research to actually fold the wings. The only downer to me re. Monogram is the weapons being molded with the pylons, which makes changing the store load a pain in the neck if one doesn't want Mk-81 daisy cutters, rocket pods and napalm. I took a quick look at a very old Skyraider kit from Esci a few minutes ago, and other than the raised panel lines and cowl; it dosn't look to be all that bad a kit. I think somebody sells an after market cowl for it (quickboost?) gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeffryfontaine Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The problem with the Monogram Skyraider stores pylons and molded on ordnance can be resolved by using the following items from Squadron's True Details resin product line: TD48531 ----- A-1H/J Pylon Set TD48536 ----- LAU-3A Rocket Launcher TD48537 ----- CBU-14A/A Cluster Bomb Unit TD48538 ----- SUU-11A/A Minigun Pod All items were previously released as a detail set by KMC before Squadron acquired the molds and offered the items separately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is what I like to see. Both sides of the fence. Quickboost do not make a cowling for the Esci Skyraider, I checked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It's hard to beat the Monogram SPAD. It was a great kit in 1979, and it still is. I was actually surprised Tamiya picked it as a subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 The thing that I find interesting is that you can take ANY of the kits and glue the two fuselage halves together and they will match almost perfectly. The only difference is the lower part of the nose behind the cowling. This is where all the discrepancies start. The R-3350 was 56" in diameter. This would make the cowling between 1.2" and 1.21" on the kit. Both the Esci and Monogram cowls are grossly undersized. BUT the Monogram kit has a oversized lower scoop. (I will brake my own rule here)this trate on the Monogram kit would allow the installation of a Tamiya cowling. I have not found ANYONE that makes a new cowling for the Monogram kit. Obviously, if someone did, it could be used on any of the kits. Only the lower section of the fuselage would have to be modified to accommodate it. Since all the fuselages mate up perfectly on top all the way to the cowling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This is what I like to see. Both sides of the fence. Quickboost do not make a cowling for the Esci Skyraider, I checked. I checked too. Of the two kits in my stash, one has early weaponry, and the other isn't any better. The cowl looks to be about .050" too small in diameter (assuming the other is even right. There is a small difference in the length and the size of the air scoop inder the cowl area. Aires makes a cockpit for the one you don't like, but could probably be adapted. True Details has wheels and hard points. They also have neat looking rocket pod. The dumb bombs on the one you don't like look like WWII German stuff in my eyes! The one odd thing about both these kits is the props. To me niether one looks right! Of course it maybe my aged eyeballs! Now I'm going to build these two kits one of these days, and to be honest with you I'm not gonna loose much sleep on the cowl diameter on a plane that big. And I don't even know for sure the other one is even close to being right. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sgt dutch Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) KMC made a correction set for the monogram Skyraider. In the set is a new cowl. The set shows up on e-bay from time to time. Edited March 19, 2012 by sgt dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I checked too. Of the two kits in my stash, one has early weaponry, and the other isn't any better. The cowl looks to be about .050" too small in diameter (assuming the other is even right. There is a small difference in the length and the size of the air scoop inder the cowl area. Aires makes a cockpit for the one you don't like, but could probably be adapted. True Details has wheels and hard points. They also have neat looking rocket pod. The dumb bombs on the one you don't like look like WWII German stuff in my eyes! The one odd thing about both these kits is the props. To me niether one looks right! Of course it maybe my aged eyeballs! Now I'm going to build these two kits one of these days, and to be honest with you I'm not gonna loose much sleep on the cowl diameter on a plane that big. And I don't even know for sure the other one is even close to being right. gary I LIKE ALL skyraider kits. I think that they all have their good merits. If you can get a old Esci or monogram on eBay for $5-$10 a new cowling will make them as nice as a Tamiya. I don't much mind raised panel lines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 KMC made a correction set for the monogram Skyraider. In the set is a new cowl. The set shows up on e-bay from time to time. That was KMC 48-4015. It would be nice if that was still available. Unfortunately Squadron bought the KMC line and discontinued almost everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I LIKE ALL skyraider kits. I think that they all have their good merits. If you can get a old Esci or monogram on eBay for $5-$10 a new cowling will make them as nice as a Tamiya. I don't much mind raised panel lines. I have that kit and the Tamiya. There are things about each kit that I like better than the other one. Surprised that somebody like Obscuro or Vector has not came out with a new cowl and a better engine. The props are an mistory to me, and cannot find my books to make the decision on which is right or are both wrong. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 For me, I think Monogram. In addition to the reasons listed above,I just feel that the details, especially the cockpit, are much better done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have that kit and the Tamiya. There are things about each kit that I like better than the other one. Surprised that somebody like Obscuro or Vector has not came out with a new cowl and a better engine. The props are an mistory to me, and cannot find my books to make the decision on which is right or are both wrong. gary Out ALL the kits The only prop which is even close (very close) is the Monogram prop. The Tamiya prop is toast, and the Esci prop has a prop-hub that is a monstrosity and blades that I doubt the engine could turn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Just picked up another Monogram A-1 for parts. the prop is very nice on that kit and is worth the price in itself. $3.98 and the kit is complete minus decals. Edited March 21, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Out ALL the kits The only prop which is even close (very close) is the Monogram prop. The Tamiya prop is toast, and the Esci prop has a prop-hub that is a monstrosity and blades that I doubt the engine could turn. I didn't even look at the hubs, but noticed the blade profiles looked like nothing I've seen in photos gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdling Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just picked up another Monogram A-1 for parts. the prop is very nice on that kit and is worth the price in itself. $3.98 and the kit is complete minus decals. Dang where did you get one for 4 bucks? And you can always send a request to Revell and get a new sheet of decals or go the aftermarket route. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 On the Tamiya, the prop hub is slightly undersized but not bad. The detail on the hub is nice but the prop blades are all wrong. The hub shanks are WAY too long which makes the blades look funny. If you are talented you could plastic to the blades at the hub and lengthen the blades. I think that would be a LOT of work On the Esci/Italeri/Ertl kit the prop is a huge paddle plus the blades are the wrong shape. The nice part is that you can shrink the blades down a bit in width and thickness. The hub on the other hand is too "husky" It can use a diet. The monogram is very nice. All you have to do is remove the ridges at the tips which are to simulate the paint lines for the red and white tips. The shape is nice all the way threw the blade. If it is not exact, it is very darn close. the hub is not fantastic but only slightly less detailed than the Tamiya. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 On the Tamiya, the prop hub is slightly undersized but not bad. The detail on the hub is nice but the prop blades are all wrong. The hub shanks are WAY too long which makes the blades look funny. If you are talented you could plastic to the blades at the hub and lengthen the blades. I think that would be a LOT of work On the Esci/Italeri/Ertl kit the prop is a huge paddle plus the blades are the wrong shape. The nice part is that you can shrink the blades down a bit in width and thickness. The hub on the other hand is too "husky" It can use a diet. The monogram is very nice. All you have to do is remove the ridges at the tips which are to simulate the paint lines for the red and white tips. The shape is nice all the way threw the blade. If it is not exact, it is very darn close. the hub is not fantastic but only slightly less detailed than the Tamiya. I thought we should pretend the Tamiya kit didn't exist. If we shouldn't, then it's a moot point compare both kits with Tamiya's... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Not exist as an option but can be used as a reference or benchmark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spellbinder99 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Funnily enough I had both the Matchbox kit and the Esci radar version on my work area just the other night. I actually like the Matchbox kit as it seems to assemble well and I did note that the engine cowling is larger in diameter than the Esci version, does that indicate it is a better size? The Matchbox engine also seems to have some decent detailing in the engine itself and reasonably fine cowl cooling flaps. Other upsides apart from it representing the "family" model Skyraider is it includes the dropped flaps. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 The Esci cowl is over 2mm smaller than it should be larger than 1.2" (31mm) in front of the cowl flaps. The Esci is just over 29mm (1.15") The Monogram is even smaller. But the Monogram has an oversized lower scoop so a larger cowl can be retrofitted quite easily. On the Esci the lower scoop is actually undersized. I want to get my hands on a Matchbox Raider also. That is the only one I don't have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spellbinder99 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Overall I like the Matchbox Skyraider. The parts fit pretty well, especially the engine cowl parts and the engine has exhaust ducting and ignition loom as seperate parts. The "folding" wings are pretty toylike but I have glued them in the spread position and all the parts line up quite well, meaning little filling if you are carefull. My canopy is unfortunately "short shot" in the back left corner, but as that is in the blue tinted section I may be able to do a repair, or look for a replacement. The cockpit detail is again very simplistic, but looks to be a good canvas to add extra scratchbuilt details. External detail is soft, but again would allow a detailer to go to town. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk10 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I seem to remember that a bunch of years back, either FSM or SAMI did an article on using the parts from the Matchbox kit and the Monogram kit (IIRC) to produce a more accurate replica of the Match Box kit version. (I've been told that when you grow old the second thing to go is your memory. Unfortunately I can't remember what the first thing to go was!) Edited March 23, 2012 by Hawk10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Overall I like the Matchbox Skyraider. The parts fit pretty well, especially the engine cowl parts and the engine has exhaust ducting and ignition loom as seperate parts. The "folding" wings are pretty toylike but I have glued them in the spread position and all the parts line up quite well, meaning little filling if you are carefull. My canopy is unfortunately "short shot" in the back left corner, but as that is in the blue tinted section I may be able to do a repair, or look for a replacement. The cockpit detail is again very simplistic, but looks to be a good canvas to add extra scratchbuilt details. External detail is soft, but again would allow a detailer to go to town. Cheers Tony Squadron makes a vacuum formed canopy for that kit. http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=SQ9617 Edited March 23, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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