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PB4Y-1 SoPac & CENPAC


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In return for Ewa's assisttancce, The Hawaiian Air Depot supplied 23 of its first 35 B-24D1 nose. kits to USN circa March, 1943. These used Consolidated A-6 / 6A type tailturrets. To date two example have been verified by photos with one being 95 Hell's Belles (or Angels). This not the arrangement with the sliding fairing often shown as a USN experiment.

The suspected receipiants are primarily VP-102 ; VD-3 and VD-1. VP-101 seems to have been left with hand held nose guns but this is neither proven or disproven.

If anyone has addition information or pictures* on these Consolidated sloped front turrets in SoPac or CENPAC USN/USMC PB4Y-1D Patrol or Photographic RONS that are appropo to this subject your assitance is welcome.

* the other known examples carries a 40s range number..43 maybe.

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i just ordered "Consolidated Mess" from Amazon. Supposedly they have plans to do a separate volume on 4 by 1s and 4 by 2s, but there might be some nuggets of info regarding the turrets in Volume 1.

david

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Thanks David. I m not sure the offering is ahead of the curve on this one but time will tell. The nose turret development centers around Major Unruh and his is official credited and cited for the work. Only years after his death and VJ. Day did Rogers manage to get a. Citation in his record. The story from its Nov 42 roots is an interesting one but still largely presented incorrectly. Enough on that...we ll see what Alan has found about the 23 kits. There is even contradictions on the kits. Some sources say the turrets came with the kits. Others say the turret were excess from Coronado transport conversions. Appreciate hearing what you learn.

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David,

I don't really touch on the PB4Y-1s or 2s in the first volume, and have decided not to deal with them in the second, keeping both volumes specific to USAAC/USAAF variants. There were several reasons for this, but the most important was that a couple other author/researchers I respect are working on a book that deals with at least the -2s and I've been sharing my research, photos, documents with them for use as they see fit.

I WILL share some things I learned/found, however. For instance, the first 77 PB4Y-2s were equipped with the A6B nose turret and front end, looking for purposes like a mid-production Consolidated B-24J from the canopy forward. Also, early -2s were equipped with what has the appearance of the Martin A-3C top turrets vs the A-3D High Hat. I suspect, but have not researched at this point since I'm not covering it, that this MAY be a situation similar to what I found on the late B-24H-FOs where Martin fitted some 900 of the A-3D turrets with A-3C rounded domes and the earlier non-compensating gun sights. However, these turrets were delivered under the A-3D designation. Conlidated Mess contains an explanation as well as copies of the original document outlining this.

As for the PB4Y-1, I will gladly bow to Phil's research on those 23 kits. MY research has been oriented toward trying to determine the origin, production and numbers of yet ANOTHER nose turret modification on the PB4Y-1s, completely different from any I've seen on any other variant of the B-24 and using either of the Consolidated/MPC turret or the ERCO. I have photos of both as well as the above if you're interested in seeing what I'm talking about. I'm a firm believer in sharing the original documents and photos in the hopes of encouraging more information and research. To do otherwise would qualify me to be on that "Hoarding" show! LOL My email address is ag122651@hotmail.com, and is also in the book. I hope you like the book. I just added Dr. Richard Hallion's (former Chief Historian of the Air Force) comments to the reviews on Amazon, along with Dana Bell, Allan Blue, etc. Please feel free to contact me with any questions or comments.

Alan Griffith

Aviation author, illustrator and researcher

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Phil, it is my understanding that Steve Bamford runs this and the other Forums and that they are open to polite discourse from all comers. Since a question specific to my book was asked it is incumbent upon me to answer it. I also had information specific to his interests and I shared it as well.

Since as of at least March 1, 2012 you had never SEEN a copy of "Consolidated Mess" published and released by MMP, your comments and intimations are most unprofessional. As to our "legal status", I will remind you that there is NO legal status of any sort between us - as you have been shown by me, by legal counsel and by my publisher. Any suggestion to the contrary is completely unwarranted. This behavior is why you have been removed from no fewer than three websites.

I will continue to answer questions, address postings and share items of interest - especially about my book(s) until Steve or his official designee asks me to stop. Questions about aircraft remain. Data exists to discover, share and publicly disseminate with original source backup. I shall continue to follow that emminently rationale course.

So....enjoy!

And David, I'm told by the PB4Y-2 researchers that there was a plan to drop the ERCO bow turret and replace it with (as I recall) the SAC-7/A-6C turret due to both weight and drag considerations. The cessation of production of new aircraft occurred prior to this happening. If you're interested, I'll be glad to get the specifics for you.

Alan Griffith

Aviation author, researcher, illustrator

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Alan your post went way beyond the question. Your capitizationation of "MY" and the specific selection of the H-25 top turret issue were all deilberate provocation, you being fully aware of your misrepresentations. Please stop this. The rules of this forum agreement restrict the type of deliberate actions and misrepresentaions you are making and deliberate use of upper case in the you employed it. You have been aware of my legal challange for a very long time. The use of international agreements is the proper forum for resolution now that you have actually relesed my intellectual property. Please stop your provocations.

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Steve,

May I respectfully suggest that this whole string be pulled? I see a very familiar pattern of imagined slights, accusations of phantom "legal status", etc. emerging here and think it might be best for all for this to be deleted. This, of course, is strictly my opinion.

If David or John wish to contact me for copies of photos of PB4Y-2 aircraft I mentioned or other information they can readily do so at ag122651@hotmail.com. I have no qualms about sharing the original source data upon which I make my statements. In fact, if there is place in the forums to post such things would someone please point me in that direction?

Alan Griffith

Aviation Researcher/author/illustrator

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Steven

The purpose of my post was eactly what it appears to be on face value; Identification of the naval unit s that wre the receipiants of the 23 HAD nose conversion kits. The secondary hope was to see if anyone could offer firm colaboration on the suggestion than PB2Y-3R conversions added to the supply of turrets. That is it. With no further expectation of replies I would just as well see the tread removed insomuch as the acidic comments have no place here.

Just as a general comment on the D1 sub series both Mr Blue And Bell are aware oof the discoveries I made in this area circa 2000 and that I came to 2000 with a good understanding of HAD's capacity and program inititives. Dana provided some valuable tips.

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Gents:

If anyone is willing to post more photos and data on the P4Y-2 mods it would be appreciated. I have a line of decals and recently released a sheet with a Korean War P4Y-2 used as a flareship with information from another researcher and author. If you wish you can send the information to mark.bilas@millcreekconsultants.com. If I use your photos to produce decals I'll send you a complementary sheet.

B24RESEARCHER - Would you please either post or send me the title and ISBN number of your book?

Mark S.

Wolfpak Decals

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The goal of the ARC forums is to help each other and provide information to each other.

Plus it is a place to hang out with friends and give you a positive boost to your day.

I have never had a problem with people promoting their products on the forums provided their products are related to our Hobby.

Living in peace is what it is all about.

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