B_Realistic Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Thank you John! I suppose you have to be a VVS modeller to realise how slim our pickings have been over the years. Regards, Jason Jason, Count me in. I'm also a VVS fan. So let others nag about it! We've got a Il-2. :D Michel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Jason, Count me in. I'm also a VVS fan. So let others nag about it! We've got a Il-2. :D Michel Exactly, Michel. If they don't like it, they don't have to buy it. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 it's all the competitive modelers who complain about accuracy issues. there's proble going to be one or two things off on this Il-2 kit and folks are going to start to complain and nag and wait for resin goodies. it honestly doesn't bother me. i like building with what i have. only aftermarket id opt for is decals. i only use resin parts if i accidently break something and can't repair it. I have two kits on order right now. The new 1/72 Helldiver and the Il-2 we speak of. I do have reservations about the Tamiya kit as it's kind of an unlown right now. Yes they Tamiya shills will automaticly jump on the bandwagon and tell you to buy it. But what worries me most is wether or not I'll have to buy a bunch of aftermarket stuff (I never count decales, and I have a personal hatred for Tamiya and Hasegawa decales). If I spend $40 for the kit and have to buy wheels and guns and a cockpit, I'm not going to be a happy camper! Plus this seems to be a regular thing with Tamiya kits these days Lets hope that they do as good of a job on it as they did with their Zeros (later ones). gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 OK, now that we're on the USSR band wagon here, I gotta ask a couple questions about different aircraft from the same era. (actually three) * Zvezda does a Pe-2 bomber. Have any of you built it? If so what can I expect out of it? * Anybody do the TU-2 bomber? * How good is the Trumpeter MIG-3? gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 * Zvezda does a Pe-2 bomber. Have any of you built it? If so what can I expect out of it? * Anybody do the TU-2 bomber? * How good is the Trumpeter MIG-3? gary 1: No idea about Zvezda Pe-2, but friend of mine built UM kit and he liked it a lot. 1/72. 2: ICM is all i know of, there is none in 1/48. 3: I have built 1/48 scale version, and enjoyed it A LOT. No idea about accuracy, have not compared. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 1: No idea about Zvezda Pe-2, but friend of mine built UM kit and he liked it a lot. 1/72. 2: ICM is all i know of, there is none in 1/48. 3: I have built 1/48 scale version, and enjoyed it A LOT. No idea about accuracy, have not compared. That's good enough for me, and thanks gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Good point, and, I suspect, a detail not widely known in "the West". At the risk of being pedantic, easy ones like "Yak" and "MiG" are no problem for most, but: Sukhoi = Su = "soo" Lavochkin = La = "law" Lavochkin/Gorbunov/Gudkov = LaGG = "lag" Ilyushin = Il = "eel" ...and so on. Blame the video game for the common usage of "IL-2", or those trying to compensate for a text font where upper case "I/i" looks the same as lower case "L/l". Like the one on this forum! John That's why I use "IL-2", instead of Il-2, which is of course correct (pronounced "eel-dvah"). Too often it comes out looking like the Roman numeral II, depending on the font. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I suppose that's all in the eye of the beholder.... [Original quote:... to produce the most important warplane of the most important air force in Europe during WWII...] No, it's not. It's in the eye of history. Three-quarters of German casualties occurred on the Eastern Front, and a goodly number of them were done in by the Shturmovik, which the German soldiers called the "Fleischer", the "Butcher". Since nearly a third of the aeroplanes in the Red Air Force from 1942 on were Shturmoviks, it was the most important aeroplane in the Red Air Force. Perhaps you are disputing that the Red Air Force was the most important air force in Europe. The United States Army Air Forces were certainly very important, as was the Royal Air Force, but despite the tremendous damage done to the Reich by the strategic bombing campaign, the long, bloody job of actually destroying the Werhmacht on the ground was done by the Red Army and the Red Air Force. By the time the strategic bombing campaign really got rolling in 1943, the Soviets had already mortally wounded the Werhmacht, and no amount of production from intact factories was going to change that fact, even if there had been no strategic bombing. Strategic bombing no doubt shortened the war, and made the Red Army's job much easier (and saved a lot of Soviet lives), but it was not decisive; the Red Army's defeat of the Werhmacht was. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyraider Maniac Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 [Original quote:... to produce the most important warplane of the most important air force in Europe during WWII...] No, it's not. It's in the eye of history. Three-quarters of German casualties occurred on the Eastern Front, and a goodly number of them were done in by the Shturmovik, which the German soldiers called the "Fleischer", the "Butcher". Since nearly a third of the aeroplanes in the Red Air Force from 1942 on were Shturmoviks, it was the most important aeroplane in the Red Air Force. Perhaps you are disputing that the Red Air Force was the most important air force in Europe. The United States Army Air Forces were certainly very important, as was the Royal Air Force, but despite the tremendous damage done to the Reich by the strategic bombing campaign, the long, bloody job of actually destroying the Werhmacht on the ground was done by the Red Army and the Red Air Force. By the time the strategic bombing campaign really got rolling in 1943, the Soviets had already mortally wounded the Werhmacht, and no amount of production from intact factories was going to change that fact, even if there had been no strategic bombing. Strategic bombing no doubt shortened the war, and made the Red Army's job much easier (and saved a lot of Soviet lives), but it was not decisive; the Red Army's defeat of the Werhmacht was. Regards, Jason As I said, it's all in the eye of the beholder... as far as the Il-2's merits within the VVS, or for the fact it was the most produced, etc... I don't argue. My point was with the VVS being asserted as "the most important".... I disagree to varying degrees. I'd say RAF, Luftwaffe and USAAF would be top of the block for sure - especially with the fight the RAF was putting up against the Luftwaffe onslaught. "Better" is merely a matter of opinion; even among historians... As for the Il-2, I find it an interesting bird, and interesting that Tamiya decided to choose it for their next "new thing". Would I ever build one? Probably not any time soon - Luftwaffe takes up too much of my time as is :) . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Fair enough, SM. I'm sure this point has been argued (and re-argued) on this site before. Regarding Luftwaffe aeroplanes, I see that you're doing a Tamiya He-219; now that's one I can't wait to see in 1/32nd scale (and I'd still like to get it in 1/48th scale)! Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 ...done in by the Shturmovik, which the German soldiers called the "Fleischer", the "Butcher"... I always find it difficult to believe these stories of troops naming enemy aircraft things like the 'Butcher', or 'Whispering Death', or 'Fork-Tailed Devil'. Sounds too much like propoganda to me. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I very much doubt it actually happened. Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Fair enough, SM. I'm sure this point has been argued (and re-argued) on this site before. Regarding Luftwaffe aeroplanes, I see that you're doing a Tamiya He-219; now that's one I can't wait to see in 1/32nd scale (and I'd still like to get it in 1/48th scale)! Regards, Jason Isn't Revell doing the he-219 in 1/32. I believe I saw it in their catalog for this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I always find it difficult to believe these stories of troops naming enemy aircraft things like the 'Butcher', or 'Whispering Death', or 'Fork-Tailed Devil'. Sounds too much like propoganda to me. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I very much doubt it actually happened. Vince I don't know, Vince. Now "The Black Death", or "Die Schwarze Tod" in German, was supposedly a Soviet progaganda name, but evidently the Shturmovik attracted a host of nicknames from the Germans, such as the "Zementbomber", "Betonflugzeug" ("Concrete Bomber/Aeroplane", "Eiserner Gustav" ("Iron Gustav"), etc. It was such an omnipresent aeroplane on the Eastern Front that I suppose it's natural it would have been called nicknames, some of which probably aren't appropriate for a "family-friendly" site. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Isn't Revell doing the he-219 in 1/32. I believe I saw it in their catalog for this year. I think you're right about that, Otto. That kit has been on my dream list for decades. If it's as nice (and relatively cheap) as their He-111 and Ju-88 then I'm going to be buying that one without a doubt. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I don't know, Vince. Now "The Black Death", or "Die Schwarze Tod" in German, was supposedly a Soviet progaganda name, but evidently the Shturmovik attracted a host of nicknames from the Germans, such as the "Zementbomber", "Betonflugzeug" ("Concrete Bomber/Aeroplane", "Eiserner Gustav" ("Iron Gustav"), etc. It was such an omnipresent aeroplane on the Eastern Front that I suppose it's natural it would have been called nicknames, some of which probably aren't appropriate for a "family-friendly" site. Regards, Jason I'm not denying that aircraft of the opposition pick up nicknames, but they tend to be more derogatory than anything else. I just think that the more 'terrifying' nicknames are coined by the propaganda machine and then used to try and install confidence in it's own forces ("The enemy is so scared of us, they call our aircraft the 'Whispering Death') and fear in the opposition ("Oh no, here comes the 'Whispering Death'! Better run away!!"). Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B_Realistic Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Does anyone has any idea what type of camo or decals will be included in the Tamiya kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Does anyone has any idea what type of camo or decals will be included in the Tamiya kit? I haven't seen a good enough shot of the box art to really tell. I just hope they have the correct camouflage scheme and decals for a late Shturmovik (no brown/green schemes, please). Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Thompson Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) My curiosity is aroused - Jason has done an excellent job of promoting VVS modelling! God forgive me, but here's the translated version of the kit description from the www.1999.co.jp site; Jason, please note the limitation on purchase quantity: "This item is limited to 3 per household. Full length: approx 243mm. Full width: approx 305mm. ● Soviet aircraft during World War II for the first time send Tamiya ● "empty tank" proud history of military aircraft, the largest number of production, heavy ground-attack aircraft "IK-2 Ilyushin Shutorumobiku" ● 1/48 scale of Shutorumobiku Soviet air force ground attack aircraft, plastic model assembly kit. ● model the rich feel the powerful figure combines a powerful armor and defensive armament. ● faithful reproduction of the cross-sectional shape of the wing and also outline a large angle with the recession. From the top to the underside nose Parts for duct or radiator, oil cooler as well as lead. ● finish also three-dimensional feeling inside the cockpit of a double seat. ● gunner seat canopy is opened or closed formula. ● fairing is available in two 23mm cannon. ● Set 250kg bombs and bomb 100kg, the RS-132 artillery rocket. The rocket launcher is ready three. ● Hand Puppet two machine gun hand and body control, with three kinds of markings. ● Painted canopy also provides a seal for the mask" I might buy it just to get that "hand puppet two machine gun hand and body control". Whatever the hell that is; sounds like it could be useful to on-line players of World of Warcraft or similar shoot-'em-ups. I don't know if it's already been posted here, but this is Brett Green's test-shot review: http://www.hyperscale.com/2012/reviews/kits/tamiya61113reviewbg_1.htm The level of detail is stunning! His writeup is interesting too, in light of the complaints in this thread that "they should have done a (insert name of favourite neglected type here) instead of this thing". As the French saying goes, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"! (Translation: "Tamiya can't do anything right!!! Ever!!!") Let me be the first in the rush to premature judgement: I hate the box. Too big to contain sensibly a 1/72 kit, and it says "Il-2", not "Yak-9", on it... ;) Après nous, le déluge... John Edited April 28, 2012 by John Thompson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Aw shucks, John, thank you for the compliment! I am proudly to push forward the courageous cause of Heroic Socialistic Modelling! Za Rodinu! I am pretty miffed at the only "3 per household" limitation, though. I wanted to do an entire polk (air regiment). I have to say I am looking forward to having the two machine gun hand - that'll certainly come in handy when trying to get ahead in line at the supermarket! And I could always use more body control. I also now have another version of the word "Shturmovik" to add to my growing list - "Shutorumobiku" (it still doesn't beat "Stormavick", though; yes I actually saw someone use that). I just wonder how loony our language looks to the Japanese after going through the sausage-makers we call machine translators. Let's face it, English is pretty loony to begin with, whether it's British, Canadian, or American. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B_Realistic Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I haven't seen a good enough shot of the box art to really tell. I just hope they have the correct camouflage scheme and decals for a late Shturmovik (no brown/green schemes, please). Regards, Jason Jason, Indeed I hope it will be more a 3 tone (light brown, Green, Dark Grey). The Mig-3 Sovietwarplanes from Massiomo Tessitori is the best. And keep those VVS models coming!!! I've traded all my other models in for VVS models. So the IL-2 is very welcome. For all those VVS fans out there here's a link on Youtube Wings of Russia which is a documentary in 18 parts about russian aviation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUd7WcaLO0 Michel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Fair enough, SM. I'm sure this point has been argued (and re-argued) on this site before. Regarding Luftwaffe aeroplanes, I see that you're doing a Tamiya He-219; now that's one I can't wait to see in 1/32nd scale (and I'd still like to get it in 1/48th scale)! Regards, Jason have you seen the photos of the new one from Z.M. yet?? That kit would take me a year to build! gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 have you seen the photos of the new one from Z.M. yet?? That kit would take me a year to build! gary ZM's coming out with an He-219!? Neither is going to be exactly cheap, but I suspect with all the over-engineering ZM do with their kits their's is going to be much more expensive than the Revell kit (not that I would mind them doing a nicely over-engineered Shutorumobiku in 1/32nd scale). ...Well, I took a little time away from writing this post to look at the test shots of the ZM He-219. Most impressive! Mind you it'll cost a mint and take me about five years to build! Although they could have done another kit seeing as how Revell are going to be doing one, I'm not complaining. If I have the money, I'll buy both. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Jason, Indeed I hope it will be more a 3 tone (light brown, Green, Dark Grey). The Mig-3 Sovietwarplanes from Massiomo Tessitori is the best. And keep those VVS models coming!!! I've traded all my other models in for VVS models. So the IL-2 is very welcome. For all those VVS fans out there here's a link on Youtube Wings of Russia which is a documentary in 18 parts about russian aviation. Michel Thank you for the link, Michel! I know it's got to be interesting when the very first aeroplane that appears is the Borovkov-Florov I-207. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 ZM's coming out with an He-219!? Neither is going to be exactly cheap, but I suspect with all the over-engineering ZM do with their kits their's is going to be much more expensive than the Revell kit (not that I would mind them doing a nicely over-engineered Shutorumobiku in 1/32nd scale). ...Well, I took a little time away from writing this post to look at the test shots of the ZM He-219. Most impressive! Mind you it'll cost a mint and take me about five years to build! Although they could have done another kit seeing as how Revell are going to be doing one, I'm not complaining. If I have the money, I'll buy both. Regards, Jason I've never built a ZM kit, and have only seen one in my life. But I kinda wanted to buy the Shinden just after they stop producing them. Now they are comming out with a 1/48th scale version of it!! I'll have to buy that one for sure. As much as I love Skyraiders, I don't see me ever owning a 1/32 kit of one. The ZM Mustang is on sale right now for $80, and that's $60 less than the Tamiya kit and probably more detailed. Wish that ZM would tackle the P47D's next, or at least do a Corsair. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Thompson Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The Mig-3 Sovietwarplanes from Massiomo Tessitori is the best. Absolutely! In case there's anyone who's not familiar with it, go here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/ I've traded all my other models in for VVS models. A bit extreme, but I think you did the right thing. Now if only I could do that, too... ;) For all those VVS fans out there here's a link on Youtube Wings of Russia which is a documentary in 18 parts about russian aviation. Michel Wow - excellent! Thanks very much for the link, Michel! We've already blown our download usage for April, but I'll be looking at this series with great interest when our new service plan kicks in next month! Thank you for the link, Michel! I know it's got to be interesting when the very first aeroplane that appears is the Borovkov-Florov I-207. Regards, Jason My thought exactly. I attempted a conversion of the Amodel I-207/3 to that version (I-207/1? Might also be the predecessor, the 7211) but didn't have the patience to do all those cowling fairings, so I compromised and went for the I-207/2 instead. Again, for those not familiar with the type, here's a page showing Valentin Muchichko's build of the Amodel kit: http://dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=1762&lng=E I love biplanes with (almost) no rigging... I have to mention a couple of things: (1) The photo at the top of the page is a fake, as is implied in the translation of the text; (2) Valentin Muchichko is the guy who created the incredibly-detailed masters for a lot of 1/72 ICM kits (the I-16 series, for example), so the quality of the build is well beyond "out of the box" level! Here's more of his work: http://savoya.io.ua/album428365 John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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