Bobi Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 has anyone been able to compare these colors yet? i don't have AKAN enamels. i just received the AGAMA enamel AMT-4, AMT-11, AMT-12. they are similar to the AKAN / HUMBROL comparisons i've read about and the AGAMA colors certainly appear darker than WEM paints i bought a few years ago!. regards robi berkeley, CA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Stay away from the WEM VVS paints - they are based on the flawed research of one man and even include colours that did not exist, such as AII Brown, IMUP Metal Use Primer, etc. Myself, I use Testors Model Master flat enamels. I haven't used AGAMA, so I can't speak to them (or their accuracy), but the Testors MM paints work well with my airbrush and I believe I've found some reasonable matches for the Soviet colours. They are Neutral Gray for the interior colour A-14 Steel Grey, Interior Green for AMT-4 Green, Black for AMT-6 Black, Russian Topside Blue for AMT-7 Blue, Gunship Gray for AMT-12 Dark Grey, Medium Gray for AMT-11 Grey, and '42 Afrika Dunkelgrau for AMT-1 Light Brown. For the green colour on the wheels I use Testors MM Medium Green. These are the colours I'm comfortable using, but as you probably know, there has been much discussion over the years regarding which paints to use for which Soviet colour. The Soviet primer colours ALG-1 and ALG-5 were rather variable, with ALG-1 being various shades of yellow and orange, and ALG-5 being various shades of green (or grey-green). I haven't come up with suitable analogues for these. In addition, there was a yellow putty used by the Soviets on their fabric. Regarding the AKAN paints, they are supposed to be the most accurate, although they appear somewhat dark to me. If the AGAMA paints are darker than the WEM paints and more like the AKAN colours, that's probably a good thing though as the WEM paints are not very accurate. Regards, Jason Edited May 2, 2012 by Learstang Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfly Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 +1 on the WEM paints. RLM 70/71 are'nt even close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) +1 on the WEM paints. RLM 70/71 are'nt even close. I don't know about their RLM paints, but regarding VVS colours - the WEM one's are rubbish. I know; I spent some $80USD on them before realising I'd wasted my money and that they'd relied seemingly solely on the very questionable research of one man. Regards, Jason Edited May 3, 2012 by Learstang Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I love AGAMA paints. They are impossible to get here in the US so I order them from Europe. I like them better than any other paint I have ever used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I love AGAMA paints. They are impossible to get here in the US so I order them from Europe. I like them better than any other paint I have ever used. Otto, are the AGAMA paints enamel? I take it they have a VVS line. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobi Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I don't know about their RLM paints, but regarding VVS colours - the WEM one's are rubbish. I know; I spent some $80USD on them before realising I'd wasted my money and that they'd relied seemingly solely on the very questionable research of one man. Regards, Jason hello jason i thought there was some negative opinion some threads back but not all colors were made up. i spent a lot of $$ on them. at least the AII light brown could represent an interior primer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Otto, are the AGAMA paints enamel? I take it they have a VVS line. Regards, Jason AGAMA has three lines Enamel, Acrylic, Alcohol base paints. Yes they have the VVS line. The Enamel paints are the main line and has the most colors. I myself use the Acrylic and have to use Enamel if Acrylic is not available in some colors. Edited May 3, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobi Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Otto, are the AGAMA paints enamel? I take it they have a VVS line. Regards, Jason hello jason i bought my AGAMA enamel from WWISHOP.com. haven't tried them yet, only compared the paint on the lid to other brands likewise labeled samples. i've bought AGAMA POLISH WWII AIRFORCE acrylics from JADARHOBBY.com, poland. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
usetherudders Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Second that on WEM RLM 71 not even close too dark and no demarcation when sprayed against the RLM 70 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 hello jason i thought there was some negative opinion some threads back but not all colors were made up. i spent a lot of $$ on them. at least the AII light brown could represent an interior primer! Sorry you spent the money on them - the same happened to me. To be honest, I have several Shturmoviks I painted with their blue colour (AII Blue), and although I think Russian Topside Blue from Testors is better, it's not bad for the Soviet WWII underside blue. If the light brown is a tan colour, it may be close to AMT-1 Light Brown. Their AII Green (not the Dark Green or Factory Green) doesn't look bad for AMT-4 Green, but again I haven't used it. The WUP Grey Interior Primer colour may be close to A-14 Steel Grey (I use Testors Neutral Gray for that), but once again I haven't used it. At any rate, don't throw out the lot, but be careful about which you use and under no circumstance use AII (Dark) Brown for camouflage - it simply didn't exist as a colour on Soviet aircraft (it was present on some Lend-Lease aircraft, however, but it would have been RAF Dark Earth). Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 AGAMA has three lines Enamel, Acrylic, Alcohol base paints. Yes they have the VVS line. The Enamel paints are the main line and has the most colors. I myself use the Acrylic and have to use Enamel if Acrylic is not available in some colors. Thank you Otto and Robi for the information on the AGAMA paints. I may have to give them a look. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 They have a very nice cross reference. http://agama-model.cz/zklic.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mbittner Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I love AGAMA paints. They are impossible to get here in the US so I order them from Europe. I like them better than any other paint I have ever used. From where do you order them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 From where do you order them? Hi Matt! A quick look-around suggests that the acrylics, at least, are available from Jadar in Poland; here's the Russia-specific page: http://www.jadar.com.pl/agama/rosja.htm I've purchased other items from Jadar in the past and found them to be fast and reliable, FWIW. Hey Otto - where did you get yours, and are they acrylics or enamels? Thanks! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I'd be careful, John. I took a look at the reference table that Otto kindly provided the link for. I notice things like Dark Earth AMT-1 for use on aircraft in the south areas, and green to be used with dark green. Sound familiar? They also have Grey Green for use on upper surfaces (ALG-5?, which wasn't used as a topcoat), and a Grey Mauve for use with fighters in the south areas - I've never even heard of this one. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hi Matt! A quick look-around suggests that the acrylics, at least, are available from Jadar in Poland; here's the Russia-specific page: http://www.jadar.com...agama/rosja.htm I've purchased other items from Jadar in the past and found them to be fast and reliable, FWIW. Hey Otto - where did you get yours, and are they acrylics or enamels? Thanks! John +1 Jadar. I also used to get the Enamels from the Czech republic when the Acrylics were not available in the color I wanted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I'd be careful, John. I took a look at the reference table that Otto kindly provided the link for. I notice things like Dark Earth AMT-1 for use on aircraft in the south areas, and green to be used with dark green. Sound familiar? They also have Grey Green for use on upper surfaces (ALG-5?, which wasn't used as a topcoat), and a Grey Mauve for use with fighters in the south areas - I've never even heard of this one. Regards, Jason Agama is very good with working with museums and researchers for their paint references. I am not an expert on Russian colors but I do know people in the Czech republic, Poland and Russia that are and they all seam to agree with the Agama colors. Perfection is next to impossible to achieve because most paints were mixed in a bucket to get what was required for the moment. Heck I used to run the paint shop for VMGR-234 and HML-776 and even a given FS# had six shades of gray from one manufacturer to another and lot to lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Agama is very good with working with museums and researchers for their paint references. I am not an expert on Russian colors but I do know people in the Czech republic, Poland and Russia that are and they all seam to agree with the Agama colors. Perfection is next to impossible to achieve because most paints were mixed in a bucket to get what was required for the moment. Heck I used to run the paint shop for VMGR-234 and HML-776 and even a given FS# had six shades of gray from one manufacturer to another and lot to lot. Well not to get into a long debate about VVS colours, as I believe that was thrashed about to death in a previous ARC thread, but I've seen Soviet aeroplanes in museums with incorrect colours (the otherwise beautifully restored IL-2 at Prague-Kbely comes to mind), and WEM also worked with a researcher, albeit a somewhat mistaken researcher. If I knew more Russian I'd run that AMT-1 Dark Earth colour past the good folks on scalemodels.ru and see what they think of it. Dark brown for usage on WWII Soviet-built and painted aircraft is not a question of not having exactly the correct pigments, it's a case of a colour that was not used. Period. Mikhail Orlov, who is an expert on Soviet wartime colours (I'm certainly no expert; I just rely upon experts), is emphatic on this point. My point is if AGAMA is falling for that old myth it brings into question just how accurate the other colours are. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stona Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Second that on WEM RLM 71 not even close too dark and no demarcation when sprayed against the RLM 70 Like this? I agree that the WEM RLM colours appear too dark on a model,there is certainly no allowance for a scale effect,and one or two of them don't seem quite right (whose do?) but generally they are pretty good colourwise. Cheers Steve Edited May 6, 2012 by Stona Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Thompson Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 If I knew more Russian I'd run that AMT-1 Dark Earth colour past the good folks on scalemodels.ru and see what they think of it. Regards, Jason FWIW, those good folks are pretty tolerant of English-language posts on Scalemodels.ru, and there's always Google Translate or Babel Fish as well. Get registered and give it a try! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learstang Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 FWIW, those good folks are pretty tolerant of English-language posts on Scalemodels.ru, and there's always Google Translate or Babel Fish as well. Get registered and give it a try! John John, I've actually tried to get registered, but I get an error message, which is of course in Russian and the pitiable amount of Russian I know doesn't allow me to understand what the problem is (something about "my hovercraft is full of eels", I believe). I shall endeavour again, however, as that was some time ago. Regards, Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Thompson Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 John, I've actually tried to get registered, but I get an error message, which is of course in Russian and the pitiable amount of Russian I know doesn't allow me to understand what the problem is (something about "my hovercraft is full of eels", I believe). I shall endeavour again, however, as that was some time ago. Regards, Jason If memory serves me correctly (hah! ), I had the same thing happen the first time I tried; a few months later, I tried again and had no problem. In between I e-mailed Micheal XIII about my initial problem; he might have made some changes which made the second attempt easier, for the sake of allowing non-Russian-speakers to register. I know xan and Konstantin post there in English fairly regularly; I've only done it myself 2 or 3 times. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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