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A Little Too Close To Home


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I live just off the EOR for Thomasville and was in my basement when they flew over. Almost s**t myself, they must have been at 300 AGL. Asked my wife what the h*ll was that? She replied, "they were gray airplanes like the ones you photograph and they were going real fast!"

http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-two-planes-intercepted-near-camp-david,0,6959916.story

"NORAD intercepted two Cessna 172 aircraft near Camp David today, both were out of radio communication. The first was intercepted by a NORAD F-15 Eagle at approx. 7:03 p.m. EDT, and departed the Temporary Flight Restricted area and landed at York Airport, PA. The second Cessna was intercepted by a F-15 and HH 60 Black Hawk at approx. 7:17 p.m. EDT, and departed the TFR and landed on a grass runway in PA. Law enforcement is interviewing both pilots."

Edited by Sig Saur & Son
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I'm sorry, but in these days of GPS and 9/11, anybody stupid enough to "inadvertently" fly a Cessna within 500 miles of Camp David doesn't deserve to have a pilot certificate. They're a menace to themselves and the public, if not to the President.

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Is this a case of a pilot that did not get his notices before flight? I'm thinking the 'temporary' aspect is something that one needs to get when filing a flight plan and it may not be marked on a map.

Oops.

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Saw two F16's fly down I-4 and cut off a little plane when Bush was here on his 2nd campaign bout.....

You could see the crap coming out of the back of that plane when the -16 filled the windscreen....

course almost wet my pants myself.

-Jim

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Guys bust the TFR a least once, virtually every time they set one up. The media misses most of them, but it happens a lot. A few years back their was a 16 in a CAP that came down and broke SS over SoCal at about 1000', going after some clueless guy in the president's TFR. Also happens daily with permanent restricted areas. I once saw some old dude in a tail dragger have a 22 pull up along side him when he went straight through the the R2515 area, 4 miles from the Edwards tower. Never said a word to anybody the whole time. Controller told the 22 driver that the guy probably didn't know he was in a restricted area. 22 driver said... "He definitely does now". Unlike driving, there's no traffic cops in flying. So a lot of it is sort of on the honor system. ie: People make some pretty stupid mistakes.

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A couple months ago - I'd have to look in my folders to find the exact date - I was in the Range Tower at Bollen photographing A-10s strafing the APCs beside the bomb circle and some stooge at about 500AGL passes through the air space from south to north, cutting right across in front of the fully armed and hot A-10s. He was driving some sort of low wing, maybe a Piper and not a clue in the world. :bandhead2:

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A few years ago when bush was in town I remember seeing a hot and dirty 15 go screeching by at a high rate of speed. Got the story later that some civilian aircraft wasn't responding. That's probably a good time for those CAP pilots to get to show off a little while staying completely on task.

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Any one who has flown around El Paso Int'l ,and/or New Mexico, knows that flying north and south you have a corridor 1 mi. in width, which is best navigated by following NM State Hwy 54. In the early '70's wayward Mexican pilot (citizen of Mexico) followed the rules on his way North to Santa Fe. However on his way back he totally blew off the restrictions. Following 54 keeps you from violating the airspace above McGregor range on the south end and WSMR in the central and Oscura range further north. Imagine his emotions when he turned to see two fully [live] armed F-4D's one parked on his wing and another lagging on his tail slighty off center in full view ( probably scared s**tless or his pants filled with smelly brown waste product :whistle: ). Well no matter what his thoughts, he soon augured in, and bent his Cessna 172 rather bad, the wreckage was picked up and moved to the local airport on a flatbed. Rumor has it he was interrogated by several DOD units, the company and the bureau, after which he was handed over to the Federales, to this day his disposition is unknown to any outside those folks who threw a lot of very pointed inquiries at him. The ID plate said the aircraft was owned by a flying service based out of Santa Rosa, just a little south of Mexico City.

Edited by #1 Greywolf
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OP's story makes me think of those great pics Moose takes.

I'm not a pilot, so my question is: Are the pilots idiots? It seems to me if they cant stay out of a restricted area if anything goes wrong (weather ect) on their flight, the plane is going to never be found. Poor flight planning seems pretty dangerous to me.

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As a VFR pilot, I have a number of different maps that show different information, depending on where I'm flying from. Different maps show different information, but between them all, I have access to the danger, restricted and prohibited areas, and can plan accordingly.

For example, if I'm flying from a controlled airport, I have a Visual Terminal Chart, which shows airspace control steps, reporting points, danger, restricted, and prohibited areas, among other things. The difference between the areas is this:

Danger - you can fly in any time, but need to excercise vigilance. Usually, these are training areas and the like. Some are permanent, some are active during certain hours, some are activated by NOTAM.

Restricted - you need to obtain a clearance to fly in these areas. Again, some are permanent, some are active during certain hours, and some are activated by NOTAM.

Prohibited - you cannot ever fly in these areas.

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OP's story makes me think of those great pics Moose takes.

I'm not a pilot, so my question is: Are the pilots idiots? It seems to me if they cant stay out of a restricted area if anything goes wrong (weather ect) on their flight, the plane is going to never be found. Poor flight planning seems pretty dangerous to me.

There's a ranch above Los Angeles that's a very large property. I was up there talking to some of their guys once, and they said there's an estimated 100 crash sites on their property. That's just one pass through one small mountain range. They go in without knowing the weather... Weather comes down... They try to turn back and fly right into a mountain. So yes, there's some not so great pilots out there. When you go to learn how to fly, it's actually kind of scary when you see how easy it is to get a license. I'll admit... When I did my first cross country solo, I should have never gone. I went into the clouds and was blind for a spell. I had never even flown in rain before. I heard this noise and it took me 5 minutes to realize it was the rain. I was not prepared to fly alone yet, but my guy let me. The people that teach are often the people with the least experience. Makes no sense, but that's how it works.

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Unlike driving, there's no traffic cops in flying. So a lot of it is sort of on the honor system. ie: People make some pretty stupid mistakes.

To say operating in the nation's airspace is an honor system is not very accurate. Federal Aviation Regulations govern how pilots are supposed to operate. Failure to abide by them can result in a suspended pilot certificate at the very least. And while there are no traffic cops; radar coverage is nearly 90% so an infraction would not likely go unnoticed.

That said however; TFR information is always available to pilots through various sources and are often published well ahead of time. I often wonder what the circumstances are that causes folks to still bust TFR's these days.

Edited by Fellow Hobbyist
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so my question is: Are the pilots idiots?

No they are not idiots, it does take brains to fly and repeatedly. There are those who get complacent and lazy, my flight instructor made it clear before you leave the building and get in the aircraft; go and check the NOTAM board (NOTAM - Notices to Airmen) This is a list of any changes or events that are going to occur, that have been cleared by or made by the FAA nationwide. For a more detailed description follow the link'em NOTAM break out. Any pilot who doesn't check the board is looking providence in the eye and spitting. Fortunately he was a USAAF bomber pilot in WWII and had years of experience with all the ratings except the ATR, and made sure I did it, and did it right.

Edited by #1 Greywolf
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I'm sorry, but in these days of GPS and 9/11, anybody stupid enough to "inadvertently" fly a Cessna within 500 miles of Camp David doesn't deserve to have a pilot certificate. They're a menace to themselves and the public, if not to the President.

Yet folk still entertain the dream of a flying 'car' that everyone can own.

G

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Think about a TFR this way.

Let's say you take the same route to your favorite waffle house every Sunday. One Sunday you hear the President and some of his drinking buddies are in town, but you're still gonna get some waffles. So you're driving down the street thing about all of that hot maple syrup and BAM, you have a pair of M1A1 tanks trailing you with guns hot.

Ooopss, should have checked the internet. But, it's not like a street. If the President is doing something to cause road closures you get signs, orange cones, and police directing traffic. It's not like a TFR that can just pop-up and you have to go search it out.

These TFRs pop up at a moments notice is some instances. In other instances they are published well ahead of time. Pilots have to search them out before flying. It's not like a magic red ring shows up on the GPS to alert you.

That being said, if I was near Camp David or other places the President frequents I would try to be pretty vigilant to check the TFRs.

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The analogy is only valid to a point - there is a difference between your average car driver and his obligations, and a pilot.

Pilots MUST check all pertinent information prior to a flight - including information on TFRs. If they don't, they are not only a danger to themselves and others, but they are showing very poor judgement and they are flouting Air Regulations.

I learned to fly in the military; luckily the training was top-notch and disciplined. Now, teaching at a civilian aviation college, I can see how some civil pilots can be complacent and lazy. Most are quite conscientious and thorough, though. Just like when you drive down a highway - not everyone is competent.

ALF

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