Getting to the matte

[Dakota Roo]

So...

I'm about to start setting up my workbench and my stash is growing too far, too fast.

Many of the rigs which I intend to build, I intend to apply OD paint-jobs and, since I was intending on going for the 'lived-in' look of matte, of flat, finishes, rather than going with gloss or semi-gloss. However, in reading a DIY-type guide, the author says to paint in gloss finish so that the decals have a greater likelihood of adhering as per expectations. The author notes that flat paint finishes promote air bubbling under the decals, causing opacity, and by using gloss paint this can be avoided.

Then, he suggests treating the area of flat finishes with a substance which will allow decals to go on well and then, once the decal has adhered and dried, brushing it with another substance to return the flat finish...presumably including the applied decal itself. Does that sound correct?

Of course, if the entire rig is painted semi-gloss or gloss, then the best situation for application of decals is present and, if the builder wants a matte, or flat, finish, that a clear finish coat can be applied that does exactly that. Am I understanding this correctly?

The best method is to build with glossy and flatten after application of decals. Right?

[nerdling]

Exactly. You always want to start with a gloss coat then apply the decals. You will want to use a decal set as well as it will help the decals snuggle into panel lines. Then when the decals have dried for a few days you then can finish up with a flat coat. Future floor polish works very well for a gloss coat. Also Testors markets a series of acrylic clear coats in gloss, semi gloss, and flat.

[Netz]

Well your obviously new to modeling.

I'd suggest reading up a bit more, pay attention to some on-line builds, read some basic modeling books.

Buy what ever paint you need, gloss or not, you really wont be able to tailor your paint selection to gloss or semi gloss, all colors are not offered in both finishes.

What do you mean by "Rigs"? Simi Tractor Trailers?

If your building armor, then I'd just use flats, and when it came time for decals (which there will be few) I'd use Future Floor wax as your setting solution and not worry about having to gloss the entire model.

If your doing Autos then thats a whole other story, same with aircraft.

Do some searching, these are basic questions that have been addressed many times before, it you can't find an answer ask again.

Curt

Edited May 21, 2012 by Netz

[Dakota Roo]

Well your obviously new to modeling.

Not really, but it has been a long time...like 45 years.

I'd suggest reading up a bit more, pay attention to some on-line builds, read some basic modeling books.

I am doing exactly that. I'm checking here to confirm what I've read so far.

Buy what ever paint you need, gloss or not, you really wont be able to tailor your paint selection to gloss or semi gloss, all colors are not offered in both finishes.

So be it. I'll adapt. Particularly if there is a product with which I can apply a final clear coating which will create a more matte finish.

What do you mean by "Rigs"? Simi Tractor Trailers?

From the Merriam Dictionary: "3. a set of equipment used for a particular activity." The particular activity is flight; I'll be working with 1:72 aircraft model kits. The 'semi-tractor with trailer' is particularly apt, as military transport aircraft are my one of my primary interests in modeling, and my experience with their operators is that they can both reference their vehicles as 'rigs'.

If your building armor, then I'd just use flats, and when it came time for decals (which there will be few) I'd use Future Floor wax as your setting solution and not worry about having to gloss the entire model.

If your doing Autos then thats a whole other story, same with aircraft.

Do some searching, these are basic questions that have been addressed many times before, it you can't find an answer ask again.

Curt

I'm sorry...questions placed here in this forum aren't supposed to be 'basic'? Is there another forum for those who have more simplistic questions?

Edited May 21, 2012 by Dakota Roo

[Netz]

With a reply like that good luck on getting an answer.

Curt

[Dakota Roo]

With a reply like that good luck on getting an answer.

Curt

???

[Crazy Snap Captain]

Dakota,

I think Curt was just trying to say that you should maybe use the search function as these sorts of questions have been asked here a few times and I suppose they want to avoid duplication. ANYWAY...

In answer to your question, yes. Paint your model in the colour that you want, whether it be gloss, semi, or flat. Then apply a gloss finish over it in order to get a nice smooth finish so your decals adhere well. After this, it depends on whether you are going to 'weather' your model or not, i.e. if you're going to give them that 'lived in' look. If so, then I suggest another couple of gloss coats to seal the decals. Apply your preferred weathering product and then you can finish off with a nice flat coat of clear and viola! You're done. This is the basic outline of the steps in painting. There are a myriad of permutations depending paints used (acrylic, enamel etc), clear coats (future floor polish etc) weathering types and other factors (under coats etc).

The search function here is great and you can find truck loads of answers to FAQ's. Check it out and learn. Hope you enjoy your return to modelling! Lok forward to seeing your rigs! ;)

[dmk0210]

If you use acrylic paints, you can mix some Future in with them and it will give you a glossier finish. Or you can just apply the Future over the top as was previously recommended. Testor's Glosscote lacquer over the top is another option. then you can use Dullcote after decals to make it Matte/Flat again.

One advantage of flat paints is they dry faster. So painting multiple color layers (like camo) is quicker/easier.

I use Enamel paints, so with them it is important to let the color coats cure a few days before Future or Glosscote.

Edited May 22, 2012 by dmk0210

[Dakota Roo]

Thanks, Cap'n...

Okay, okay...so I didn't do a search before asking. I find a lot of searches to be confusing, if not a waste of time. Plus, I guess I just thought that a forum was to facilitate discussion. I'd say that snickering at the clueless nOOb would qualify as discussion. :blink: This place is pretty large and I'm still running in the sub-forums and threads where I feel comfortable. My original question evidently left a fair amount unclear...like what kinds of models I'd be working on. My apologies for any misunderstandings.

And thanks for the encouragement and advice.

(I've moderated at some forums, and I know how many times the same question can be asked....we came to just expect that as part of running a board where new readers arrived all the time, while others drifted away, having had their concerns expressed or addressed.)

I was just reading along in Pat Hawkey's Building and Detailing Model Aircraft and he writes about glossing the spot on a flat finish where the decal is to be applied, and then reapplying the flat finish...it wasn't clear what was necessary to protect the applied decal. What I've picked up in the two most recent posts is helpful. Later, he recommended working entirely in gloss paint and then applying a clear coat for the matte finish after decal application. That sounds a lot easier than working in flat finishes and then glossing portions to apply decals and then reapplying matte finish. I just wanted confirmation of that...reapplying a couple gloss coats over the decals and then a final flat coat sounds more thorough.

I'd read about the use of Future for protecting clear pieces like canopies. I didn't realize it could be utilized as a generalized clear gloss finish.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Dakota Roo

[nerdling]

If you've not read this article yet it is a very good article about what Future can be used for. http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

[Dakota Roo]

Shazzam!

That's almost TMI...almost. I now know how to tint that back canopy on my A-1H. Thanks for the info, Nerdling. And the additional links, too.

[tbell]

Hi Dak,

The main goal is to apply decals over a glossy finish in order to prevent "silvering" (i.e. minute quantities of air trapped beneath) of the clear carrier film. You can either paint your model with gloss colours in the first place , or you can paint your model in flat colours and apply a clear gloss over top.

The former is not usually an option as most hobby paint military colours are flat. For the latter, you have several options. Future is a popular clear gloss, as is Testors Glosscote (careful with paint compatibility, though). Tamiya X22 clear gloss acrylic works well, as does Tamiya clear in the spray can.

Mask your clear bits and apply your camouflage colours however you prefer (hand brush, airbrush, spray can, or whatever), let dry apply your clear gloss. You may need a couple of coats to get an acceptably smooth finish. Again, let dry and apply your decals. Once the decals are dry it's best to apply one more coat of clear gloss to "seal" the decals and create a uniform finish. Next apply a clear flat to restore the matte finish. You have several choices for your clear flat, including Testors Dullcote (same caution as above), Polly Scale clear flat (the new formulation isn't that great, to be honest), Humbrol matte clear, or my favourite, Vallejo Model Air. Finally, remove your clear parts masks.

Hope this helps,

Tony

[DutyCat]

I was just reading along in Pat Hawkey's Building and Detailing Model Aircraft and he writes about glossing the spot on a flat finish where the decal is to be applied, and then reapplying the flat finish...it wasn't clear what was necessary to protect the applied decal. What I've picked up in the two most recent posts is helpful. Later, he recommended working entirely in gloss paint and then applying a clear coat for the matte finish after decal application. That sounds a lot easier than working in flat finishes and then glossing portions to apply decals and then reapplying matte finish. I just wanted confirmation of that...reapplying a couple gloss coats over the decals and then a final flat coat sounds more thorough.

I'd read about the use of Future for protecting clear pieces like canopies. I didn't realize it could be utilized as a generalized clear gloss finish.

Well, to be honest, despite what Mr. Hawkey has written, I would not recommend "glossing portions to apply decals." I think that is an amateurish approach by today's standards. I'd be curious about when his book was written. Most of today's models have dozens, if not close to a hundred, or even more, decals. Plus you want to protect that paint you just put down, apply washes, etc. Better to gloss cote the entire thing. After decaling, gloss it again to seal and blend in the decals before the flat cote. A flat coat alone goes on very thin and you will often see decal film. Not what you want.

Re: Working with entirely gloss paints. Okay for cars, but a no-no for any multi-color camo scheme that will be free hand airbrushed. Some companies have jumped on this idea, producing gloss or semi-gloss camo paint with the idea that they can save you that gloss cote step. But they are not thinking things through. A free hand camo job requires the builder to be all over model with different colors, usually multiple times, to tighten up lines. The paint has to dry fast and be handled. It ain't happening with gloss/semi-gloss paint. Testors MM flats work perfect when you are trying to do this.

My two cents.