A question for P-39 experts

[old_Tonto]

Can anyone help me identify the model of this P-39 Airacobra.

It was flown by Evgenii Mariinskiy

I believe the photo was taken between mid-1944 & early 45.

I think it is a P-39Q but I am no expert.

Any help appreciated.

If you are interested in the Eatern Front air war Mariinskiy's book 'Red Star Airacobra' is available as a free ebook for Kindle or kindle apps. Just look it up on Amazon. Well worth a read. :)

[Netz]

Possibly a P-39N-1 according to these guys.

Curt

M3Today

[rpeck]

I'm no expert but it looks like there is no wing guns,well I can't see any.

If no guns in the wing it maybe a P-39Q with the gun pods removed.

Rick

[old_Tonto]

I'm no expert but it looks like there is no wing guns,well I can't see any.

If no guns in the wing it maybe a P-39Q with the gun pods removed.

Rick

Thanks guys. I have to agree with Rick. There are no wing guns & if I recall correctly Mariinskiy mentions removing th egun pack increases the rate of roll. So that would indicate a P-39Q, I was hoping to narrow it down to a P-39Q-20 or whatever.

Netz - those animations are great. The other question that I had was about markings. This artists impression indicates a blue circle around the red star:

But this photo does not show any variation from the OD colour.

Don't get me wrong, I am no rivet counter but as I am only doing one soviet P-39 I want to get it correct.

[Jennings]

Blue circles DID NOT HAPPEN!!!! There are gobs of photos of Bell products produced for the USSR sitting at the factory or enroute with WHITE circles and red stars. The spec said "red star with white outline" which Bell (and Republic) took to mean - for some unknowable reason - a white circle. The Russians were not happy about that, but for whatever reason it seems to have taken years to fix at the Bell factory. Once the aircraft got to the USSR, the white was almost always overpainted, usually with some kind of green on top and light blue underneath. It is totally within the realm of possibility that somewhere in the USSR there existed either actual OD paint, or something close enough that you can't tell the difference in black & white pics.

If you look at the time period involved, a blue circle US insignia makes no sense. That insignia disappeared in mid-1943, and P-39 deliveries really cranked up after the white bars were introduced. Yet you never see a P-39 in the USSR with overpainted barred insignias.

FWIW unless you have a photo to backit up,I wouldn't trust any profile of a VVS P-39.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Jennings

[Netz]

If you look at the time period involved, a blue circle US insignia makes no sense. That insignia disappeared in mid-1943, and P-39 deliveries really cranked up after the white bars were introduced. Yet you never see a P-39 in the USSR with overpainted barred insignias.

FWIW unless you have a photo to backit up,I wouldn't trust any profile of a VVS P-39.

You mean like this???

Curt

Junior Lieutenant Tropa

sovietwarplanes com

P-39 Recovered from Russian Lake After Six Decades

Edited May 26, 2012 by Netz

[Netz]

Don't get me wrong, I am no rivet counter but as I am only doing one soviet P-39 I want to get it correct.

I think your taking the exact route you need to complete your project, one good thing for you is that you do have a few pic's of the actual a/c and can really make good decisions off of it,stick with your photo's.

The one photo of the star shows to me that there is no disk behind it, and appears to be from the factory as Jennings said.

I wonder if the few a/c we do see with the blue disc behind were wartime replenishments from the U.S. and England. I have not studied the history just an educated guess.

Curt

[Jennings]

You mean like this

Okay, one out of how many thousand? And does that negate the *fact* that there all kinds of photos of them with white circles and red stars?

Didn't think so...

[Netz]

No, just had to pull your chain, I'm sure there were examples that had the disks, the one all the Decal manufactures like to jump on because they are different.

Just typical, when you say that something never happened, someone pulls out a picture.....

Curt

Edited May 26, 2012 by Netz

[old_Tonto]

I have obviously opened the proverbial can of worms here!

I found this site very useful: [url=]"http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/P39/color_mark_1.php"[/url]

I think I will do as Netz says and stick to the pictorial evidence that I have to hand.

From the few pictures in the book I can conclude that there is no circle around the star, just a red star with a white outline. It looks factory painted so I will assume the aircraft had red stars in the six usual positions. I can also discern that the panel displaying the white number four is of a different colour – although it could be a lighter green rather than blue. I am pretty sure that the plane is a P-39Q-20 (probably) with the wing mounted gun pods removed.

Thanks for the replies guys & the help, it's appreciated.

[Steve N]

Note that even in the case of that "barred" insignia, the blue was clearly overpainted with green. I have yet to see any evidence of red stars with blue discs. I'm not saying it never ever ever happened, but every recovered or preserved VVS Airacobra or relic I've seen pics of has everything but the star painted out with green.

This seems to be like Purple Rufes and Interior Green P-40 quarterlights. Incorrect artist's interpretations are perpetuated without question for years and become "gospel," making the myths nearly impossible to dispel.

SN

Edited May 28, 2012 by Steve N

[Oryx]

Note that even in the case of that "barred" insignia, the blue was clearly overpainted with green. I have yet to see any evidence of red stars with blue discs. I'm not saying it never ever ever happened, but every recovered or preserved VVS Airacobra or relic I've seen pics of has everything but the star painted out with green.

I can't find a scanned example of this picture online, but in the book "Aerokobriy nad Kuban'yu" by Valeriy Romanenko on page 44 is a photograph of a 45 IAP P-39K that seems to clearly show a red star in a blue circle. Admittedly it is black and white, but the picture is sharp and the circle is much darker than the surrounding green. Here is the caption of the picture (and note that Valeriy Romanenko and this particular book is considered one of the best on lend-lease P-39's):

"P-39K (s/n 42-4401) of 45 IAP. Red stars with thin black outline, blue circle preserved. The aircraft did not sport any tactical number but was decorated with two victory stars on the nose."

Edited May 28, 2012 by Oryx

[mz826]

"I found this site very useful: "http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/P39/color_mark_1.php""

I have heard that this particular website is not very reliable and a lot of the information presented is speculation rather than fact.

I spent alot of time looking around prior to building my soviet P-39 and was warned by several experts that the info it provided was not very reliable.

There are some great and more accurate profiles on www.gaetanmarie.com.

[old_Tonto]

There are some great and more accurate profiles on www.gaetanmarie.com.

What a great site, some wonderful images on there.

[old_Tonto]

I found a good review of an Authentic decals sheet on a Russian site.

NOTE: No blue circle around the fuselage star. No serial number also!

Would the white number 4 be displayed on both sides of the nose? The only image I have of the starboard side shows the kill markings but the engine panel that would hold the number has been removed.