Mixing Monogram's Phantoms Together....

[Exhausted]

I have an F-4D (with chin bulb) and an F-4J (clean nose) in 1/48 scale. I want to know how plausible it would be to swap fuselages in each of the models to make an F-4B with the chin bulb, and an F-4C/D without one.

I think I have seen then USAF without the undernose sensor, and the B models with.

Here are my questions broken down

-Would I have an accurate -B model if I just swap the fuselages and remove some of the extra pilot controls in the back seat? I would be using the -J's wings for the B and the C/D wings on the chinless D.

-If I want to paint these in USAF and USMC colors, would this be accurate for a D and a B?

Thanks

[gonzalo]

The fuselage swap would be okay, but the wings would not. The -J had a buldge on top of the wing because the wheel well accomodated larger wheels, the -B did not. The -C/D was the same way because the Air Force used bigger wheels also. There were -D's without the bump on the nose but I do not believe the -C's were like that. Also the Air Force did not operate -B's except for the F-110 which was loaned to them by the Navy which was actually a -B. The production F-4 for the USAF was in fact a modified F-4 which had rear cockpit controls,a bulge on the upper surface on the wings, and larger wheels. The USMC flew the same F-4s as the Navy. Also on the fuselage I think the vertical stabalizer might have been different between the two aircraft. I hope this helps and if I am wrong please someone correct this post.

Gonzalo

[Exhausted]

Ok, so sanding the bumps on the wing is a must. I know that the C started the larger tires due to reducing runway wear and tear. I just thought the J may have reverted to the smaller wheels. Thank you.

[gonzalo]

You are welcome

[Jennings]

The AF version without a "donkey d*ck* is the F-4D (early ones). You don't really gain anything by swapping between Monogram F-4C/D and J kits except a mish-mash. As noted, the B/N is a whole different animal. And it's not just the bulges on top of the wing. The entire wing center section, including the lower fuselage, was deeper on all Phantoms after the B.

[Exhausted]

Is there a diagram with these changes visible?

[phasephantomphixer]

And don't forget the Navy/Marine birds have the launch cable lugs in the forward wing-fuselage shoulder.

[Netz]

Is there a diagram with these changes visible?

Compare this shot to your model, this wing is flat on the top and bottom, this includes the main gear doors and air brake.

How accurate does this build need to be?? is it for yourself of a demanding customer??

If ultimate accuracy is not required (sinful words here)just build the "J" add the "B" features, Donkey Dick and fin cap pod.

Curt

Prime Portal

[dsmith]

If you want to make a -B out of the Monogram kit, just start with the -C. The kit cockpits between the -J and -C are the same, so the only differences will be on the exterior. Starting with the -C kit will be closer, because it comes with unslotted stabs and the correct -8 exhausts, and no AM exhausts work with the Monogram kit that I am aware of. To turn the -C kit into a -B (other than the cockpit), here is what you need.

1. Sand down the bulges on the top and undersides of the wings.

2. If needed, add the reinforcement plates over the main gear.

3. Need the flat speed brakes, and main gear doors.

4. Might need a new ECM tail cap

5. Need the Navy stye nose gear door

6. Thinner main wheels

I have a conversion set available for the Hasegawa -J kit, but I will be releasing a version for the Monogram kit as well, just without the wings. You can take a look here to get an idea of what you need.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

-Doug :)

Edited May 30, 2012 by dsmith

[Exhausted]

This is great information that I will be using for one of the most important pieces of my 'Semper Fi - In The Sky' display.

All of the aircraft will be gear up, so tires aren't something I'm worried about.

Just another thing - ultimate accuracy is not an issue here. I need to actually get things built, and I've only been back in the hobby for 10 months.

PS: It looks like they finally repainted that F-4A! I'm sorry you had to see the representation of some of the weapons they have below deck there :)

Edited May 30, 2012 by Exhausted

[redcorvette]

This is great information that I will be using for one of the most important pieces of my 'Semper Fi - In The Sky' display.

All of the aircraft will be gear up, so tires aren't something I'm worried about.

Just another thing - ultimate accuracy is not an issue here. I need to actually get things built, and I've only been back in the hobby for 10 months.

PS: It looks like they finally repainted that F-4A! I'm sorry you had to see the representation of some of the weapons they have below deck there :)

Based on your objectives, I'd just suggest painting the C/D up as a B. Otherwise you're going to be doing a lot of work and still have something that is inaccurate.

Mark

[kstater94]

Starting with the -C kit will be closer, because it comes with unslotted stabs...

Although this is correct for early F-4B's, many were retrofitted with the slotted stabs to help reduce landing speeds so the modeler really needs to check his/her references...

Regards,

John

[Rex]

I was tempted to add the nose and tail tip info,,,,,,but it is really not needed in this thread

if you are pretty much going to build a "thick winged B",,,you aren't going to care that there were two types of Stabilator, as John said,,,,or three different Tail Tip caps,,,,,,and 3 different shapes of the Donkey Dicks under the nose,,,,,and then the spine antennae arrangement changes

even if you sand the heck out of it to get a thinner wing,,,,,,I would sure like to see photos of your underwing spoiler well when you finish,,,it isn't just a hole,,the shape of that well bends just like the actual spoiler does

when you get it all finished, please post pics,,,,,it would be interesting to see just how much it ends up "looking like an F-4B to me", might be surprised at how close it does get

Rex

[silverkite211]

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23941&hl=

This was what I did, I was lucky enough to have all the things needed in the spares box or, in the case of the ejection seats, acquired from a friend. If I were to do this again (make a F-4B, that is) I'd probably merely get one of the Royal Resins conversions that he mentioned will be forthcoming for the Monogram kit and go from there.

[gmat]

As an aside, late Cs and early Ds lacked the IR housing. Look for grey/white 81st TFW F-4Cs out of RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge as an example. Some examples of Cs w/o the housing turned up in SEA in camo paint.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=f-4c+81st+tfw&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1120&bih=914&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=C3f5TFTKNt2RLM:&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/fanjetuk/image/54070451%26gcmd%3Dadd_comment&docid=b3Zx1JdttHU8uM&itg=1&imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/o4/64/252464/1/54070451.phantomcopy.jpg&w=800&h=490&ei=fx_MT4TRJufHmAWzroHoDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=406&sig=111714353979745908279&page=1&tbnh=104&tbnw=169&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:75&tx=74&ty=73

Best wishes,

Grant

[Netz]

I've seen more "C"s with out the housing than "D"s, I find it hard to find a "D" with out one.

Don't lump the F-4C and "D" together, there are a few differences that are notable between the 2, minor but notable.

Curt

[gmat]

I should have been more clear and said that initially, late Cs and early Ds lacked the housing and that when they were used to house the early RHAW antennas, (or in a few cases, rear facing cameras) the housing reappeared on the Cs and Ds. Retrofitted to the late Cs and early Ds and fitted as standard to later D models on the production line. I believe that the appearance of Ds w/o the housing is why some sources on the Phantom from the 70s and even later write that the difference between the C and D, aside from more important modifications, (visually) was the lack of the IR housing.

I've seen more "C"s with out the housing than "D"s, I find it hard to find a "D" with out one.

Don't lump the F-4C and "D" together, there are a few differences that are notable between the 2, minor but notable.

Curt

I don't know if the above was in reference to my previous comments. I mean no ill will, just to add clarification.

Best wishes,

Grant

[F4DPhantomII]

As another aside in my old Squadron the 523TFS at Clark in the phillippines 1968 we had new less than 50 hours F-4D's.We had a spare F-4C radome that would float between the aircraft when the original D radome needed repairs or resurfacing.

Edited June 4, 2012 by F4DPhantomII

[Rex]

there is one easy to find F-4D without a nose IR sensor bump

it is the one featured in Airfix magazine back in the seventies,,,,,,and the decals are/were available in the AMT/Hasegawa F-4D/J kit (the plastic is actually a B )

66-7466 was an F-4D-29 with 431 TFS Red Devils on George AFB,,,,,sometime before April 1970 (the magazine cover date)

edited to remove smiley in wrong place

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rex