Boomstick Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Now this is exciting. And the timing is pretty good as we just got a P-51 in today at NEAM, flew in with FIFI the B-29. I'll be checking them both out up close tomorrow. Chuck, do you need any specific pics of the Mustang? I've always wanted to build a Mustang and Tamiya's new release raised my eyebrows. Glad you've started this. Will be watching like a hawk. Edited June 7, 2012 by Boomstick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Mike Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Wow chuck - this really shows how much we all enjoy watching you work! There isn't a single post with assembly - and we are already on page two!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing your work with us mere mortals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markiii Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You said you are using Web Garden Seatbelts, where can you purchase these? I have never heard about this company. Thanks Mike They are HGW, and Roll Models does list them on their site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Budman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Go Chuck!!! You will have a blast. All of the Mustangs manufactured at the North American Inglewood Ca. plant had painted wings. The panel lines and rivets were puttied and the wings were sprayed aluminum. This was done to create a smooth surface in that it was believed that the airfoil would not perform well on a natural, as manufactured surface. I have a link to a "map" showing which were filled and those that wern't. I will find it and shoot it to you. We are waiting with baited breath for your magic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Budman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 See if this works Chuck http://www.fundekals.com/images/P-51...encil_Inst.pdf Bud Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Budman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 OK Try this http://www.fundekals.com/images/P-51...encil Inst.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Wow! Over 1,000 hits in 2 days and I haven't even opened the glue jar yet! Talk about pressure! :o To be honest, I started this post to create some mild pressure and to get going, because I haven't been modeling for over a month (on vacation) and this kit has been staring at me for over a week after my return. Looks like I need to get going! One of the things I like to do in my builds is to do a lot of research and try to replicate things as accurately as possible. I have found a few very interesting links on Mustangs in the last few days that have already helped, so I'll share them with you now. The first link called "Mustangs Mustangs" has a lot of information about the P-51, including serial numbers and where the aircraft was built. This is very important as you will soon see: http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51.shtml My particular build will be for Serial P-51D-10-NA, 44-14570, which was built in Inglewood California and is considered "Early". I LOVE that dirty look! As you can see in the above pic, the first "4" is deleted when the serial is painted on the tail. The Tamiya kit allows for the construction of 3 versions of the P-51D in very early, early and late configurations called "C", "B" and "A", respectively. There are even THREE bubble canopies to choose from and it took me about 5 minutes to detect what the subtle differences really are. The "B" version in the kit is for Serial # 44-14151, which puts it in the same "10A" series as my build. This means that all I need to do is to follow the instructions for "B" in the kit and use "Early" parts for the Eduard photo-etch and I should be mostly accurate. I say "mostly", because there are many variations of each series apparently, as explained by Christian ("tourist") here: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=234998 And here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1313874748/1-32+Tamiya+P-51D+Cockpit+Details. Thank you Christian for all that valuable info. If I get 80% of all that correct in my build I'll be lucky! Now I need some help from you guys, as explained by Budman here: All of the Mustangs manufactured at the North American Inglewood Ca. plant had painted wings. The panel lines and rivets were puttied and the wings were sprayed aluminum. This was done to create a smooth surface in that it was believed that the airfoil would not perform well on a natural, as manufactured surface. I have a link to a "map" showing which were filled and those that weren't. I will find it and shoot it to you. If this is true of my particular bird, where does the filled rivets and aluminum paint start and end? I have no pics of the top of the wings on this Mustang and the many pics I have in my books show lots of rivets and panel lines. I would LOVE to receive this info if you can. Thanks! You said you are using Web Garden Seatbelts, where can you purchase these? I have never heard about this company. Thanks Mike Hannants has them here, but I found mine on ebay: http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HGW132071 But before you start Chuck did you take a look at the SWS P-51D Kit ??? BTW when your done can i buy your left overs?? i.e Eduard best and whatever you wont use ?? ive got a hasegawa one to build and that ting can use alot of it! Cheers Neo I considered that kit, but I decided that since I like it mostly closed up, why go to all the grief of all that interior work if I'll never see it? I plan on having the engine and gun areas open and no more. As for the extra photo-etch, ask me again in a year when I'm finished! I should have something worth showing in plastic in about a week, so stay tuned and keep that info coming in- and thank for your interest in this build. This should be fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Budman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Chuck, I PM'ed you with the link. If it doesn't work, just go to the Fundekal site and you can eventually find it. Basically, the top of the wing has the panel lines all filled with the exception of the gun bays and a couple of others. On the bottom, the gear panel lines are obviously not filled nor a major line that extends from one wing to the other. Let me know if you were able to get it. Bud Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mareku Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Looking forward to this build, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunce Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If this is true of my particular bird, where does the filled rivets and aluminum paint start and end? I have no pics of the top of the wings on this Mustang and the many pics I have in my books show lots of rivets and panel lines. I would LOVE to receive this info if you can. Thanks! (I'm actually really eating popcorn as I write this! ) Gonna be awesome to watch this one! As for the wing seam lines, the following images were sent to me from Greg Wise who works on Mustangs at some outfit there in Florida. Can't remember the name, but Liberator24 hangs out there like herpes, they can't get rid of him. So I'm sure he'll chime in with the name here soon. The black lines are filled, the red lines may or may not have been filled depending on your particular bird. Top: Bottom: Hope that helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Cheetah Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I was subscribed to this topic, but I stopped my subcription... I have this tread bookmarked in my reference section instead. Chuck, I cant wait to see what you do with this, I might actually try to follow along with mine too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Daddy Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Count me in (subscribed to thread). Absolutely loved your Lanc thread, Chuck, and I love Mustangs too. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modelmkr Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Now I need some help from you guys, as explained by Budman here: With regards to panel line/ rivet filling. Original quote won't transfer for some reason. If this is true of my particular bird, where does the filled rivets and aluminum paint start and end? I have no pics of the top of the wings on this Mustang and the many pics I have in my books show lots of rivets and panel lines. I would LOVE to receive this info if you can. Thanks! Chuck, Check out this thread, specifically post #108 and #113. This is true for ALL P-51Ds coming from the factory. There is some evidence the putty *may* have been removed for a very few in the field or on post war birds, but the VAST majority should follow the filling/ paint scheme for the wings as indicated. For your particular bird, this was as close to a certainty as one can get, so fill and paint accordingly. Marc B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmel Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 My particular build will be for Serial P-51D-10-NA, 44-14570, which was built in Inglewood California and is considered "Early". I LOVE that dirty look! So let me get this straight. You're already starting a new build, and you've already decided on which airframe you're going to model?? I can never decide which aircraft I'm going to depict right up until the time I put paint on it, then I've even been known to change my mind again and strip the paint to change it. You're a better man than I! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Chuck, Check out this thread, specifically post #108 and #113. This is true for ALL P-51Ds coming from the factory. There is some evidence the putty *may* have been removed for a very few in the field or on post war birds, but the VAST majority should follow the filling/ paint scheme for the wings as indicated. For your particular bird, this was as close to a certainty as one can get, so fill and paint accordingly. Marc B. Thank you Sir! That answers just about everything I need to know. Having said that, it's going to be very, very sad to fill in all that fine rivet and panel line detail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
salvine Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Holy S#@%! Quit kissing his *** and let the man build! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Cheetah Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 This was discussed somewheres before about panels and rivets, I think in reference to the Dragon Mustang kits. The Factory Fresh aircraft definitely had thier wings all puttied and smoothed over, but there was some photographic evidence to show a hint of dimples and lines on the more war weary airframes. If you do a post-war RCAF Mustang, you wont even have to bother with the putty at all as many were stripped down to the bare metal before having unit markings applied. On my Dragon P-51D-5NA, I was planning on filling all the panel lines and rescibing them, it will be done as "Lou IV" so it will have the OD over bare metal scheme. My Tamiya Mustang I think I will putty over the indicated lines on the wings, then maybe post shade to show a bit of a shadow where the lines would be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hi Chuck, I too will be following this build, I want to see all these goodies in action! You won't be needing most of the Eduard cockpit set; use part #64 behind the headrest instead of what's in the kit, also use the parts behind the armor plate but for the "front office" the Barracuda parts are much better. You are correct to follow version "B" in the Tamiya instructions, it's the right one for "Thunderbird". As for the puttied wings, the Greg Wise pictures posted by Blunce ealier in this thread are not fully accurate for a WWII P-51D, use these drawings instead, they're drawn by Jennings based on my research and were posted in the Mustang Wings & Panel Seams thread: Light grey area = you can see the faint lines that have been puttied over and the ones that remained visible, it's all painted silver. Dark grey area = natural metal. I can't wait to see the first pictures of your build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Milo Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah, I'd do what he says. You really don't want to argue with Batman... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Whoa guys, as I said before, I won't have anything to show for a week or two! Right now I'm gluing the engine parts together, but they all need clean-up work on seam lines, etc. and I plan on painting each part separately before assembly. That way I won't have any painting shadows in the tight recesses of the engine. Now an engine question for the experts: Is the entire engine semi-gloss black? With all the pics of the real deal I have in black and white, it's hard to tell, so I'd rather find out now rather than later what the true colors of this engine should be. TIA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattC Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Is the entire engine semi-gloss black? IIRC, all the Packard built engines came out of the factory painted black. Modern resto's sometimes have polished or chromed rocker covers, but as far as my refs show, they were black "out of the box". That might not include nuts and bolts and suchlike, as in this pic (museum exhibit) Clicky But I'd guess that after a few weeks of use, that the whole thing would take on a pretty uniformly dull colour. I'm not sure how much of the gloss would remain in an active example however. Some of my refs seem to show a somewhat dull appearance, but as always, its hard to judge. But I don't think you'd be too far out. Looking forward to this one! Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Daddy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 IIRC, all the Packard built engines came out of the factory painted black. Modern resto's sometimes have polished or chromed rocker covers, but as far as my refs show, they were black "out of the box". That might not include nuts and bolts and suchlike, as in this pic (museum exhibit) Clicky But I'd guess that after a few weeks of use, that the whole thing would take on a pretty uniformly dull colour. I'm not sure how much of the gloss would remain in an active example however. Some of my refs seem to show a somewhat dull appearance, but as always, its hard to judge. But I don't think you'd be too far out. Looking forward to this one! Matt I agree. We have four Packard Merlin engines in various stages of dis-assembly at CH2A from Lancaster FM212 and they are all basically black, except for the big brass turbos on the front. We have one fully assembled and mounted on a frame, Chuck, and I can take a few pics for you on Tueday night if you like. This is an original, unaltered engine, built in 1945 in Detroit. BD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Excellent pic and info- thanks Guys! Make no mistake, this engine is going to look well used, but before I weather it I need a good base to start with. The above pic shows the fuel rail to be gunship grey, while many pics I have of more modern engines have it aluminum colored, so I think I'll go with the grey look because it was likely more common. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 I agree. We have four Packard Merlin engines in various stages of dis-assembly at CH2A from Lancaster FM212 and they are all basically black, except for the big brass turbos on the front. We have one fully assembled and mounted on a frame, Chuck, and I can take a few pics for you on Tueday night if you like. This is an original, unaltered engine, built in 1945 in Detroit. BD I would LOVE that. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Budman Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I agree. We have four Packard Merlin engines in various stages of dis-assembly at CH2A from Lancaster FM212 and they are all basically black, except for the big brass turbos on the front. We have one fully assembled and mounted on a frame, Chuck, and I can take a few pics for you on Tueday night if you like. This is an original, unaltered engine, built in 1945 in Detroit. BD Please post the pics as P-51 fans would love to have 'em. Thanks, Bud Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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