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1/32 Tamiya P-51D- Kicked up a notch


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Thank you everyone for your kind comments- and 0.50 cal. shell suggestions! Here's where I stand today on this specific subject:

1) The Eduard shells are toast, as I explained above. Thanks everyone for confirming they do indeed suck! :P

2) I am willing to pay the big bucks (12 sets of 25) for the Mission Models brass shells. They look fantastic, are expensive (each belt requires 65-73 shells and I need 4 belts) and they will take forever to assemble, but I think they are the very best option. One problem though: They appear to be DISCONTINUED! I can't find them anywhere, so if somebody can find me at least 9-10 sets of them, please let me know via PM.

3) JohnS and others have pointed out some resin ones, which might work and they are a LOT cheaper, since I only need 2 sets.

Edit: I have been told that these are the wrong size, which are .30 cal. instead. :(

4) The Aber shells in the video above don't have a very accurate shell to shell belt- and I'm also worried about thickness, since they look a little flat as well. BTW, Isn't that music annoying? :lol: He uses way too much glue as well.

5) I can still leave the shell trays empty. Once everything is painted properly and weathered, I still think that this will look much better and more detailed than using the kit parts. The other great thing is that I can proceed with this plan no matter what, because adding shells can be done at the very end of the build. If the resin ones above won't fit (or brass if I can find them), I'll just leave them off.

Chuck, good morning, nice tutorial and nice tips concerning PE parts. Have you tried gluing PE parts with Gator's grip glue?

http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder.html

Great stuff!!!

John

No John, I haven't, so I checked out your link while being a little pessimistic about an acrylic glue being better than CA glue. The attached review of this glue, however, changed my mind so I just ordered a bottle, which is fairly cheap! I'll try to report on my findings as maybe an update to my "tutorial" on gluing PE brass.

Edited by chuck540z3
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Good evening Chuck, it is not that this glue is stronger than CA, it is not but it is strong enough when dried, but the best part is that it allows you to reposition or better position the parts together, especially when they are small and difficult to deal with it. CA gives you only one chance!! Another good point is that even if you put to much you can always wipe the excess with plain water! even when it has dried and it dries clear!

And finally if you are a bit afraid you can always - when you are sure you have done the work properly - to add a drop of CA to make the bond stronger.

I am using it on my Helldiver build and so far i am totally pleased with the result.

Now about the 0.50 cal. shells, i would put the kit ones, i think that with your painting and weathering skills the outcome would be perfect, but again this is my opinion!!!

Cheers, John

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Now about the 0.50 cal. shells, i would put the kit ones, i think that with your painting and weathering skills the outcome would be perfect, but again this is my opinion!!!

Cheers, John

Thanks John.

I still think the Eduard stuff with empty shell trays is better than the kit stuff. Let's re-visit the kit vs Eduard pics first.

Kit:

While nicely detailed, it has a few problems. The shell belts look like they are sliding on a flat surface with no shells beneath them. This is true of the upper belt in the left half of the tray, but not on the right side of this tray and nowhere on the bottom belt tray. These areas should show shells sitting on top of other shells:

Gunbay5.jpg

Eduard (Empty trays):

If you can get over the yellow resin guns and dream that they are nicely painted gun metal, with solenoids on the sides and wiring to match, I plan on using the Eduard shell feeders to the left 2 guns attached to the empty trays. These feeder assemblies actually do look good without the Eduard shells inside of them. While there may not be any nice brass shells to look at in the trays, this will look much more interesting than just going with the kit parts above, AND it's more accurate. Almost everybody uses the kit parts, so I want something a little different that will stand out as a good modification to this kit that few people use:

Gunbay6.jpg

If I do it this way, I can add shells at any time in the future, depending on size, availability and how good they look. If I go with the kit parts, there's no turning back.

Edited by chuck540z3
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I vote for the Eduard stuff with empty shell trays.

-----------

Chuck, I would like you to check this link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1353354819/Tamiya+1-32+P51+Mustang+done

J. Veen is a great modeler, his work is always remarkable. He did fill the wings but now they look wrong to me.

I agree that filling the seams is the way the go. However, that is not a good reason to paint the wings in such very plain fashion.

I think that in doing that J. Veen missed to:

1) Showing the fading and weathering of the paint over the wings.

2) Showing that the wings, even if filled and primed, are made of different metal panel that even if primed stress in different ways.

In other words, I think that while we should not see the seams between the panels but we should see the panels.

Cheers,

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Chuck, I would like you to check this link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1353354819/Tamiya+1-32+P51+Mustang+done

J. Veen is a great modeler, his work is always remarkable. He did fill the wings but now they look wrong to me.

I agree that filling the seams is the way the go. However, that is not a good reason to paint the wings in such very plain fashion.

I think that in doing that J. Veen missed to:

1) Showing the fading and weathering of the paint over the wings.

2) Showing that the wings, even if filled and primed, are made of different metal panel that even if primed stress in different ways.

In other words, I think that while we should not see the seams between the panels but we should see the panels.

Cheers,

My thoughts- and thanks for the link.

1) NICE job! This Mustang is killer.

2) I'm not worried about the painted wings as much as the bare metal, which looks like it was just painted as well. There's other nits, but they are just that, nits, that aren't worth mentioning.

3) Weathering is always subjective. While I would weather the wings more to show wear and tear from boot marks, etc., the rest of the weathering is spot on.

4) If my model looks just as nice when finished, I'll be very happy. Mr. Veen is obviously a fantastic modeler and I salute his build! :salute:

Edited by chuck540z3
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Chuck,

This has little to do with the Mustang build, but thought it needed saying. This thread actually got me working on models again. I intended to start one of the two P-51 kits I have, but instead I actually started working again on a Hase 109 I had stopped on several months ago. I had stopped on the wheel wells because I was afraid to work on the Radu PE set I had gotten for them. With a Mustang build now in my future it got me going on the 109 again.

To make a long story shorter, your advice (and others on this thread) helped me gain a new level of the craft. I realized last night working on the 109 that there was was some plastic I hadn't removed that was important for the PE to fit right. I had already superglued several pieces in when I came to the realization. I was able to de-bond and remove all the PE without damaging the PE or the plastic. It might sound weird that being able to disassemble previous work was an achievement, but for me it was. I used small amounts of de-bonder, and worked VERY SLOWLY. The patience (and your previous tutorial) paid off. Before, I would have had to keep going trying to work around the mistake, or just thrown it all in the waste bin.

This thread is great, as is your teachings, and just wanted you to know.

Stephen

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Chuck,

This has little to do with the Mustang build, but thought it needed saying. This thread actually got me working on models again. I intended to start one of the two P-51 kits I have, but instead I actually started working again on a Hase 109 I had stopped on several months ago. I had stopped on the wheel wells because I was afraid to work on the Radu PE set I had gotten for them. With a Mustang build now in my future it got me going on the 109 again.

To make a long story shorter, your advice (and others on this thread) helped me gain a new level of the craft. I realized last night working on the 109 that there was was some plastic I hadn't removed that was important for the PE to fit right. I had already superglued several pieces in when I came to the realization. I was able to de-bond and remove all the PE without damaging the PE or the plastic. It might sound weird that being able to disassemble previous work was an achievement, but for me it was. I used small amounts of de-bonder, and worked VERY SLOWLY. The patience (and your previous tutorial) paid off. Before, I would have had to keep going trying to work around the mistake, or just thrown it all in the waste bin.

This thread is great, as is your teachings, and just wanted you to know.

Stephen

Ha! You sound like me when I ripped out the main plumbing in the gear bay about a week ago. There's always something that just bugs you about a build now and then, so it's a big release when you undo the wrong, even if it took you hours to get there in the first place. The shell belt hitting the trash bin 2 days ago was another one! :P I leave all my mistakes in the build thread, because I think it adds modeling realism and I am often very happy with my corrections later. For example, if you check very early in Post #77, I attached the ignition wires to the coolant pipe on the side of the engine. Ooooops!

Engine18.jpg

After my buddy Guy in England gave me a "Pssssst" PM message, so as not to embarrass me publicly, I finally fixed the wrong and it looks much better now...

Engine29.jpg

Although I appreciate all the kind comments I have received so far (I'm a BIG sucker for praise :rolleyes:), I really appreciate this one and the one from Christian (Tourist) yesterday for totally different reasons. These WIP threads are a ton of work, because photographing and documenting your build takes almost as much time as the build itself. While I used to whine a bit about lack of feedback at times, I find that I have become a better modeler with each project because I make the effort. As mentioned before, I started modeling about 5 years ago. Sure I made models as a kid, but nothing since then and the quality of work was really bad with tube glue and brush painting. When I got back into the hobby, the technology and after-market parts that were available were really intimidating. By posting queries here, like you, I started to learn how to do stuff, so now I'm trying to pay back a little bit with this thread and the odd "how to" discussion. It also comes with a big bonus when others offer suggestions and I continue to learn new tricks. For example lately, I now know about clear Gator Glue for PE parts and a variety of .50 cal shell options I was not aware of by just Googling. By giving, you receive, which is really corny but still very true nonetheless.

The nice comments by Christian are equally gratifying because the man knows his P-51 everything to a tee, yet he has expressed his appreciation of what I've done to date and has been helpful in correcting a few boo-boos along the way, like the gunsight. I had a terrific experience with Scott Wilson in my last build of an F-4E for similar reasons. Scott not only worked on F-4E's, but he did so in Germany during the early 80's, which was the exact era of my build. He is also an avid photographer who took many priceless shots of many, many Phantoms, so with his collaboration, we built a pretty neat looking model that has many modifications rarely seen before. Ever heard of making the fuel filler door on the dorsal spine asymmetrical? Me either, but we did it because he knew they were. We even exchanged a few parts, photographs and decals along the way, while having a ton of fun doing it. A guy in Calgary Canada and a guy in Appleton Wisconsin, who have never met, sharing their keen interest in modeling and the F-4 Phantom. Very cool! This would never have happened without me doing the WIP thread in the first place and he joining in.

Edited by chuck540z3
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BTW, Chuck, I ordered a set of the Aber PE .50 cal belts from a shop in Australia. In the pic they looked rounded (not flat like the Eduard ones) so I figured I could risk the eleven bucks. Once they get here I will post a critique and maybe some pics if I can figure out how to post pictures here.

Stephen

Edited by stephencraig
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BTW, Chuck, I ordered a set of the PE .50 cal belts from a shop in Australia. In the pic they looked rounded (not flat like the Eduard ones) so I figured I could risk the eleven bucks. Once they get here I will post a critique and maybe some pics if I can figure out how to post pictures here.

Stephen

Cool, which ones are they? I have a line on some individual brass ones as well, but the cost will be huge!, so I'm trying to get a "bulk deal" to ease the pain. What I'm more likely to do is to buy one set, give it a try, then take the plunge. I'd hate to be stuck with several sets of useless ammo.

Update: Jari (Finn) has alerted me that the resin shells I ordered from Sprue Bros. above are likely .30 cal, not 0.50! Back to the drawing board! :bandhead2:

Edited by chuck540z3
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Well boys, while I'm digging around trying to find some .50 cal ammo that will fit my 'Stang and waiting for some paint to dry, I tried a little experiment tonight that "failed", but not really, because there are so many other applications where this technique will work like magic. I tried to make my OWN .50 cal shells! :woot.gif:

First of all, what I'm about to demonstrate here is NOT my idea, but that of my modeling buddy, Mike O'Hare, or "MoFo" here at ARC. Yes, Mike has a twisted sense of humor!

About a year ago Mike showed me a new product that he found at some hobby shop in Japan. It's a polymer "clay" product that semi-melts in boiling water, so that you can use it to form just about anything, including using it as the "negative" for a model part. I wish I could tell you what it's called and where I bought it, but everything is in Japanese, so I'll show you the bar code instead at the end of this demonstration.

The other new product is light sensitive putty by Tamiya. This putty dries very quickly under light to a smooth plastic like hard finish, unlike its regular cousin which can be slightly granular after drying for a day or so. Not having used any of this stuff before, I thought I would try to make my own shells using the Tamiya part as my impression to make a mold. This part is super detailed, so the odds are already against me to make something even close to useful.

LtPutty1.jpg

I was hoping that by making a thin version of the Tamiya .50 cal shells, I could trim the shells and drape them over the shell tray rollers. This failed mostly because the hardened putty is too hard and cutting it with a knife shatters it, but it can be easily shaved with a knife and sanded instead. The reason I continue with this demonstration is to show how useful this method can be to make other simple parts you may have lost or need duplicates of.

The polymer clay comes in a variety of colors, but for some reason I wound up with pink. Since Mike told me which item number to buy, I'm pretty sure this is not a fluke. :angry: I told you he had a twisted sense of humor!

The first thing you do is to put the plastic brick into a cup of boiling water and let it sit for about 3 minutes to soften. Using a clean cutting mat is recommended because you don't want fuzz or other crap to get into your new mold. After the brick had softened, I dried it off and then placed it over the kit part and pressed it down firmly on the mat, trying to make sure that I got out all the residual water and bubbles squeezed out. BTW, even when pulled from the boiling water, it does not feel too hot to handle......

LtPutty2.jpg

After it cooled off for 5 minutes, the polymer brick has regained its original rigidity and you can carefully pull the kit part out....

LtPutty3.jpg

You can't see it very well from this pic, but the detail within is amazing. I was very surprised.....

LtPutty4.jpg

Now the really cool part- the light sensitive putty! As the name suggests, this "putty" cures with light, so you have to be careful to keep the light low while you work with it. Here I've smeared some yellow putty into the new mold, then put on a strong light to take a pic and let the putty cure and harden, which only takes about 2-3 minutes!

LtPutty5.jpg

The results! OK, I didn't get all the bubbles out when I applied the putty, so I'll likely do better next time AND, this part is super detailed and complicated. Just think of how well it will do for less detailed parts! The mold can also be re-used and when you're done, remelted in boiling water for future use. There's nothing to throw away....

LtPutty7.jpg

Now all the info I can find that I can understand, which is really just the bar code, 4902655001493. Sticking this number in Google, I got all sorts of Japanese hits. Hitting the "translate" button next to the item, gets you a little closer to something you can comprehend on this side of the Pacific. I'll check with Mike and see if he remembers where we bought this stuff a year ago. If anybody else knows, please let us know.

LtPutty6.jpg

That's my demo for tonight. A failed attempt to make .50 cal shells, but a really cool way to replicate model parts. I'll also be using this light sensitive putty again when I need speed of drying and a very smooth finish.

Edited by chuck540z3
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Lion Roar may be producing turned .50 cal rounds My link

Thanks guys for all the feedback.

Those are the very shells I have my eye on, but here's the problem. I counted the number of shells on the longest belt and there are 73 and maybe 65 on the shortest one, so that's (2 X 73) + (2 X 65) = 276 shells. With 25 shells in each kit, I need at least 11 of them and so far the only price I've seen is about $15.57 per kit without shipping. If I buy 11 sets, that's $171 for just shells, which I'm willing to do if:

1) I can get a break on shipping for multiple sets. So far I'm getting nailed to ship each set, for a cost of $241.12! If somebody can find me a few more suppliers other than Import Hobby (IH, below), please let me know. I've emailed the IH guys but I've heard nothing for over a week, so I don't think I'll get anywhere:

http://www.importhobby.com/sku63951_lion_roar_lam043_1_35_u_s_army_12_7mm_machine_gun_

2) They fit and they look terrific.

I think I'll just order one set and determine #2, before I make the plunge.

Build Update:

I'm doing many small things in preparation for the main painting work I'll call, "Sweating the details", which I hope to have posted fairly soon. There's a lot of tiny details often missed at this stage as modelers rush their build to the paint booth, so I'll document many of them- and maybe you guys might find some things I've missed at the same time. Stay tuned.....

Edited by chuck540z3
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Chuck see my post, #439, those are the ones i mentioned and you can get them locally. Also talk to Justin at Hobbystuff Depot and i'm sure you can make a deal.

edit: oops different aftermarket company but i'm sure if you call up Hobbystuff Depot, Justin can get you what you need.

Jari

Edited by Finn
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Chuck see my post, #439, those are the ones i mentioned and you can get them locally. Also talk to Justin at Hobbystuff Depot and i'm sure you can make a deal.

edit: oops different aftermarket company but i'm sure if you call up Hobbystuff Depot, Justin can get you what you need.

Jari

Thanks Jari, but I found a description of what is included and you only get 10 shells instead of 25. This means that I would have to buy 28 sets. Yikes!

Too bad. This outfit is even in Calgary where I live!

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Chuck...I've got the MM turned brass ammo and PE links and since I want to save them that's what I'll do....I'll join five rounds with links made of wine foil...make a few resin copies...join them togeher in 25rds sections,cast as many as I want and build my ammo stash! I've got at least ten duifferent kinds and brands of resins and I've discovered that adding a certain pigment to a certain resin will make the latter a tad more "pliable" even without using hot water...that's what I'll use in the end!

HTH

Luigi Emanuele (Lou/Manny for the guys who banned me on a certain forum because... :stooges:/> :can-of-worms:/> )

Edited by Canuck63
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