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1/32 Tamiya P-51D- Kicked up a notch


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Canuck,

Can you share with us what ingrediants you use to make the flexible resin?

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

of course I can mate...but apart from AXSON resins (http://www.axson-na.com/axna-about.html ),which are known Worldwide and that I'm reasonably sure are uswed by the likes of Aires and CMK, I use resins that AFAIK are only available in Italy.

Anyway...I add to the slowest curing resin that I have a 1% of Chemix (http://www.chemix.it/ )black pigment,which reacts with the resin and makes it more easily bent without snapping.It even retain the shape long enough to be glued with that particular bend.

HTH

Luigi Emanuele

Edited by Canuck63
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Hi Stephen,

of course I can mate...but apart from AXSON resins (http://www.axson-na.com/axna-about.html ),which are known Worldwide and that I'm reasonably sure are uswed by the likes of Aires and CMK, I use resins that AFAIK are only available in Italy.

Anyway...I add to the slowest curing resin that I have a 1% of Chemix (http://www.chemix.it/ )black pigment,which reacts with the resin and makes it more easily bent without snapping.It even retain the shape long enough to be glued with that particular bend.

HTH

Luigi Emanuele

I hit the links and goggled AFAIK and it sounds like these are all fairly advanced commercial/industrial resins. Is that correct? Are there any sources that these are available for hobbyist?

Stephen

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Thanks guys for all the feedback.

Those are the very shells I have my eye on, but here's the problem. I counted the number of shells on the longest belt and there are 73 and maybe 65 on the shortest one, so that's (2 X 73) + (2 X 65) = 276 shells. With 25 shells in each kit, I need at least 11 of them and so far the only price I've seen is about $15.57 per kit without shipping. If I buy 11 sets, that's $171 for just shells, which I'm willing to do if:

http://www.importhobby.com/sku63951_lion_roar_lam043_1_35_u_s_army_12_7mm_machine_gun_

2) They fit and they look terrific.

I think I'll just order one set and determine #2, before I make the plunge.

What if you get 1 or 2 sets of the Mission/Voyager/Lion Roar sets, assemble them, then cast resin copies of them. Should work fine for the straight runs, leaving the originals for the flexible runs. Just a thought.

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Hey everyone,

The Aber .50 cal belts I ordered came today. I was not impressed. They are flat. I don't know if they are as flat as the Eduard ones, but they are definitely flat. I measured their thickness with the micrometer I use for reloading and they are 0.14mm thick. I then laid them by the kit part trays, and didn't think they looked as good as the kit part. They don't even have any linkage detail.

When I get to this build, I will probably paint the shells with metalizer paint and use washes to fill in around them and the trays. I can't see linking the seperate shells like Mission has, besides the expense. Unless I decide to use one of Chuck options and get one set so that some of the guns have a few shells left like it just came back from a mission.

Stephen

Edited by stephencraig
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Hey everyone,

The Aber .50 cal belts I ordered came today. I was not impressed. They are flat. I don't know if they are as flat as the Eduard ones, but they are definitely flat. I measured their thickness with the micrometer I use for reloading and they are 0.14mm thick. I then laid them by the kit part trays, and didn't think they looked as good as the kit part. They don't even have any linkage detail.

Stephen

Thanks Stephen for "taking one for the P-51D team". :thumbsup: I currently have some resin shells coming from Sprue Bros. (which are likely the wrong size) and I have ordered ONE set of the LionRoar brass shell sets, which look a lot like the Mission Model shells that appear to be discontinued. I hope these shells are a direct copy, because one of the problems with the 1/35 scale Mission Models version is that they are really 1/32 scale, which is perfect for my potential use. Although I'm not worried about how they look, I am worried that they won't fit in the trays or shell feeder assembly into the guns. If they do work, I'll likely buy at least 5-6 sets of them to complete at least one side while leaving the other side empty so that you can see the detail underneath.

I just received another set of the Aires .50 cal. guns and some more wiring from the Model Car Garage, so that I can complete both the wheel bay plumbing (redone) and the gun bays. Meanwhile, I'm fiddling with a lot of control surface parts, the wind screen and some fuselage edits. I hope to have something worthwhile to post soon, but other commitments are getting in the way. Hopefully it will all be worth the wait!

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Chuck, how about the old Tamiya US Infantry Weapon Set:

http://images9.fotki.com/v250/photos/6/1722726/9908303/_S_InfantryWeaponsSet1_35Front-vi.jpg

it comes with 2 .50cal ammo belts. Maybe not the best quality but you could have them underneath the 'good' rounds as filler.

edit: Academy has a US Machine Gun Set as well, with ammo belts:

http://www.usarmymodels.com/MANUFACTURERS/Tasca/tasca35L8%20images/tasca35L8product.jpg

Jari

Edited by Finn
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I just ran across these. I don't know if we can post links, but I'll try. They are .50 belts by MDC in flexible resin for 3.00 Euro. The link is here. If the link doesn't work, go to ModelDesignConstruction's site, go to 1/32 scale, and the belts are on page 7.

http://www.modeldesignconstruction.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/ModelDesignConstruction/_CV32068/54288/Browning%2050%20Cal%20Machine%20gun%20Belt

Stephen

Edited by stephencraig
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I just ran across these. They are .50 belts by MDC in flexible resin for 3.00 Euro. The link is here. I

http://www.modeldesignconstruction.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/ModelDesignConstruction/_CV32068/54288/Browning%2050%20Cal%20Machine%20gun%20Belt

Stephen

Thanks Stephen. I just ordered a set to give them a try- along with about 3 other types of shells! Hopefully I'll find the magic bullet (pun intended) soon. :rolleyes:

I call this stage of the build, "Sweating the small details". This is where you can really "kick your build up a notch" by doing many small things that might make your model stand out from the crowd at something like a model contest. Nothing I'm about to show is earth shattering or a really big deal, but collectively they can be in the final product.

One thing I touched on earlier was the poor fit of the curved fuselage part right behind the cockpit that holds the slot for the sliding canopy. According to the Tamiya instructions, this is one of the last parts to be installed, so that you can fit the T-shaped slider under it before installation. Since I want this part to fit correctly with no seam gaps and I want to paint it along with the rest of the fuselage before the canopy is installed, I discovered an easy way how. Here is why the T-shaped slider won't fit into the slot if you try to insert it sideways. There is a small lip at the base of it that makes it too fat.....

Canopyhinge1.jpg

By just cutting that small lip off, the slider- and now canopy- can be installed at the very end of the build. So simple, but in my review of many other builds of this kit, you usually see the canopy installed and all masked off in preparation for the main paint job.

Canopyhinge2.jpg

Speaking of canopies, my windscreen came scratched right out of the box.....

Windscreen1.jpg

Something like this used to be a real tragedy to me, but since I discovered Tamiya polishing compounds, it's no big deal any more and as a matter of fact, I did not use Future in my last 2 builds. Why? Because with these polishing compounds, you can always fix a boo-boo later if you happen to scratch some clear plastic, but with Future on the plastic, you need to re-dip it or hope you can paint some more on without making a mess.

Windscreen2.jpg

Here's a pic of my last two canopies, which are Future-free using this method:

CockpitDone10.jpg

CF-18B-10.jpg

And now back to the Mustang, scratch free and very clear. Note that I have sanded down the base of the windscreen, because for some reason Tamiya cast this part as rough....

Windscreen3.jpg

While the Tamiya kit has masks for the canopy and windscreen, they are not pre-cut, but thankfully my BIG ED Eduard kit has some that are. These fit really well and are certainly better than I could accomplish with just masking tape or cutting out the Tamiya ones and it comes with one for the inner windscreen glass (Part L-7), which should have flat black edges.....

Windscreen4.jpg

Unfortunately, there aren't any masks for the interior of the glass, which needs to be painted flat black in the non-glass areas, which are extensive. The old thin strips of Tamiya tape followed by liquid mask trick works pretty well, but it is picky work that takes some effort and time. Note the extra blobs of liquid mask, to give me something to grab on to later when I want to remove everything....

Windscreen5.jpg

After painting the windscreen, it is now time to add those little cockpit bits I was afraid to earlier, like the canopy crank and red ejection handle on the starboard side.....

Windscreen6.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3
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And throttle control- complete with connecting rods at the front of it that were fitted to holes on the left side of the IP earlier....

Windscreen7.jpg

With the interior of the windscreen painted flat black and with the masks removed, you can now slip it into the fuselage in an almost perfect fit. Make sure you let the cement on the inner windscreen (L-7) dry with it tucked up against the main windscreen on the inside, so there is almost no gap....

Windscreen8.jpg

The other side. While it did fit pretty good as is, I still glued in the seams with extra thin cement and sanded everything smooth....

Windscreen9.jpg

The rear of the wing, stabilizer and rudder should also be painted chromate green/yellow before installation of the ailerons, elevators, flaps and rudder. Also, while you're painting the gun racks, make sure you paint some of the underside at the same time, which shows through the shell hole vents on the bottom of the wing in the lower right.....

HorizStab3.jpg

The kit has a few weird seams on it that are supposed to replicate sharp seams to the rear of the wing and the leading edge of the tail.....

Wingcrease1.jpg

Wingcrease2.jpg

I sanded them off, then replaced any missing detail. This pic shows the smoother look AND some chromate green/yellow painted on the underside where the flaps meet the wing. I also drilled out those little vents on either side at the same time...

Wingroot1.jpg

With the rear seam sanded off, the port side horizontal stabilizer just doesn't want to fit as well as the starboard side....

HorizStab1.jpg

Careful trimming of the front and rear of this part gets it to tuck into place properly.....

HorizStab2.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3
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The edges of the ailerons, elevators and flaps should also be painted green, but before you do that you need to remove the seam lines and maybe add some more Eduard detail like this pic....

Metal3.jpg

The rudder is fabric covered, so I want it to look like "painted aluminum" rather than real aluminum. I noticed that the rudder trim tab has some fairly big gaps between it and the rudder, so I scribed a cut in the top and bottom. Unfortunately, the panel line on each side is offset slightly, making the final cut way too big. To fix this gap, I added some styrene and sanded it smooth, then I added some more Eduard brass for the trim tab actuator. Make sure you get rid of ALL seam lines, because you can see the front when the rudder is fully extended in either direction...

Rudder1.jpg

After painting. Not bad, especially at 2 inches!

Rudder2.jpg

The flaps, ailerons and elevators I want to look like real aluminum. Unfortunately, I found out that my particular bird should have had the fabric elevators (Option "C") before Feb/Mar, 1945. Oh well, only Christian will notice. Note the fine rivet detail WITHOUT any wash and the deeper scribed trim tab.....

Metal2.jpg

After sanding with 8000# cloth (more on that later), it looks like metal to me!

Metal1.jpg

These gear doors are hard to photograph. That central panel on the left is chrome while the rest is aluminum colored. With a darker wash later, this should be more apparent.....

Gearflaps1.jpg

Now a Quick Alclad tutorial, recycled from another thread I posted elsewhere a month ago:

1) Use a gloss black LACQUER for a base coat. I use decanted Krylon for plastic, which you can buy at Canadian Tire here in Canada. Thin it a bit with Tamiya lacquer thinner after the propellant is expelled, because this thinner won't attack plastic. This is THE most important step when working with Alclad, but I'd avoid using Alclad's own black primer due to very common drying issues.

2) Let the surfaces dry thoroughly, maybe 3-4 days. It may feel dry to your light touch, but it will still be uncured underneath if you rush things.

3) Sand the gloss black surface with 4000# wet and dry abrasive cloth, then wipe any dust off with a dust cloth.

4) Paint the entire model with the Alclad color that will be used the most, because the paint is so thin, it will never build up too much and fill detail you want to retain. For safety in handling, this might take an hour of drying between the upper and lower surfaces so that you don't leave hand or other marks on the model.

5) After a day or two of drying, lightly sand any crap off with 6000-8000# cloth again. Touch-up painted areas as required.

6) Mask off panels and other areas that you want to look different with Tamiya masking tape, then spray those panels with a darker or lighter color of Alclad (Duraluminum, Chrome, Steel, etc.). Remove the tape after at least 15 minutes of drying time and do not re-tape over newly painted areas for another 2 days or so.

7) Repeat as required above, then let dry again.

8) Use a lacquer friendly weathering wash like ProModeler or The Detailer so that you don't need to fool around with Future or some other sealant to keep solvent away from your nice new paint job. Alclad on it's own looks like real metal. With Future on it, it looks like a glossy toy. The wash should be smeared into all panel line and rivet detail, then wiped off with water. If you find it a bit tough to remove, use a small amount of Windex on your cloth.

9) Spray heavily thinned dark umber or other brownish paint on those areas that have oil or other staining. You might even use salt as a mask, which I always do, but keep the coats VERY thin and subtle.

10) Lightly sand your model once again with 8000# cloth or maybe even paper towel to get things smoothed out and natural looking again. This blends in the edges of each paint step without scratching.

Other tips:

As with most enamel and lacquer paints, the oils from your skin can attack the paint, leaving sticky finger marks. If you must pick up painted parts, make sure you wash your hands often and use a soft cloth to hold larger parts as you work on them. Rubber gloves work too, but you lose dexterity for fine work. After a month or two of drying, however, this problem mostly goes away as long as you’re not holding the painted surfaces too long.

Spray each coat at low pressure and fairly close to the model so that it won't "dust up" on you. Alclad dries almost immediately, so if you're 6-8" away you'll find that the paint tends to ball up and create a rough surface. You should be painting at about 2-3" away instead, so you need to keep the air pressure fairly low or the paint will pool on you. You want the surface wet, but that’s all, as you move the air brush along. Also, don't spray Alclad on too thick, because pooled up lacquer can do bad things to plastic and the Krylon primer underneath. Keep your air brush moving and then go back over those areas without enough coverage later. If you want to re-paint some areas, make sure the paint has dried for at least a full day or it will craze as the fresh lacquer thinner in the new paint dissolves the fresh paint underneath.

One last thing I learned recently: Lacquers tend to create their own hard crap around the necks of jar containers, etc. that can really plug up your airbrush and cause it to sputter. NOT GOOD on a BM finish! To help prevent that and keep the gritty crap out, I now use a metal coffee filter cut out and stuffed into a small funnel like this. After pouring the paint in the air brush, I just rinse the filter in some solvent and it's ready for the next batch of paint.

Funnel2_zpsd3c5761c.jpg

Finecloth1.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3
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Great tips and tutorials as always Chuck and great build also!!!

As far as i know you use the gloss black layer only for the shine shades of Alclad (airframe aluminium for example). For the other ones you can use the usual grey primer, Mr surfacer for example. Do you use the gloss black for all the Alclad shades?

I have these Laplos polishing clothes, great ones!!!

John

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The kit has a few weird seams on it that are supposed to replicate sharp seams to the rear of the wing and the leading edge of the tail.....

Wingcrease1.jpg

Wingcrease2.jpg

Love this build. Mine won't come anywhere close to this but the inspiration and information you provide on your build will help immensely.

As for those weird seams, they are actually supposed to be there. The real fairings are made in two parts, upper and lower, and are welded creating the seam.

Links to a few photos:

Click Here

Click Here

Click Here

Click Here

Cheers,

John

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L

As for those weird seams, they are actually supposed to be there. The real fairings are made in two parts, upper and lower, and are welded creating the seam.

Links to a few photos:

Click Here

Click Here

Click Here

Click Here

Cheers,

John

I KNEW that would happen! Thank you very much John for the great pics. When I first noticed those seam lines, I checked all my reference pics, but I could not find anything that came close to the prominent line on the kit parts. I'm guessing that they were ground down to make them smoother on restored birds, which obviously wasn't a priority during WWII. Anyway, as I was sanding them down I was thinking, "I bet somebody demonstrates that they actually exist". :lol: Anyway, they are gone now and I still hate them, but I WILL now sand a sharper edge to them with this new knowledge.

Again, thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup:

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I KNEW that would happen! Thank you very much John for the great pics. When I first noticed those seam lines, I checked all my reference pics, but I could not find anything that came close to the prominent line on the kit parts. I'm guessing that they were ground down to make them smoother on restored birds, which obviously wasn't a priority during WWII. Anyway, as I was sanding them down I was thinking, "I bet somebody demonstrates that they actually exist". :lol:/>/> Anyway, they are gone now and I still hate them, but I WILL now sand a sharper edge to them with this new knowledge.

Again, thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup:/>/>

Hey Chuck,

No worries. I also noticed on most restored P-51's that a lot of fairing welds have been beefed up from behind and then ground off on the 'pretty' side.

Just thought the info would be good for other builders out there. If you really want the welds you could use the technique from armor builders and make your own weld seams.

Here's a pdf with some techniques to try:

Click Here for PDF

Cheers,

John

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Fantastic work.

I like the separated trim tab on the rudder, it's a small detail but it's quite visible.

If you can, you should get rid of the square access door seen just in front of the windshield (slightly to the left if you're in the cockpit).

This access door came with the P-51D-20 block, before that in order to get to the hydraulic reservoir you had to take off the whole panel in front of the windshield.

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Hey Chuck,

No worries. I also noticed on most restored P-51's that a lot of fairing welds have been beefed up from behind and then ground off on the 'pretty' side.

Just thought the info would be good for other builders out there. If you really want the welds you could use the technique from armor builders and make your own weld seams.

Here's a pdf with some techniques to try:

Click Here for PDF

Cheers,

John

Thanks. I can now turn a screw-up into an improvement. I'll check these methods out and try the best one.

Fantastic work.

I like the separated trim tab on the rudder, it's a small detail but it's quite visible.

If you can, you should get rid of the square access door seen just in front of the windshield (slightly to the left if you're in the cockpit).

This access door came with the P-51D-20 block, before that in order to get to the hydraulic reservoir you had to take off the whole panel in front of the windshield.

Consider it done! Thanks again Christian.

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" I'd avoid using Alclad's own black primer due to very common drying issues."

That's very interesting. You mean that you would not suggest to use 'Alclad / ALC-304 Gloss Black Base' as a primer?

Would you give me some more elaboration?

Edited by galfa
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Great tips and tutorials as always Chuck and great build also!!!

As far as i know you use the gloss black layer only for the shine shades of Alclad (airframe aluminium for example). For the other ones you can use the usual grey primer, Mr surfacer for example. Do you use the gloss black for all the Alclad shades?

John

Sorry for not responding sooner John, but I forgot your question after CF104 pointed out that I screwed up- AGAIN! :bandhead2:

:lol: I won't be the last!

To answer your question, Yes, I use the black stuff for everything for three reasons:

1) I like the shading effects of shadow areas when painting other colors on top. A good example is the chromate green I recently painted on the Eduard PE gun bay doors, which have some good relief to them. By changing the airbrush angle while painting, I can retain or remove black areas which can provide some really cool looking "pre-shading" effects. I'll have pics of this soon when I complete the gun bay. BTW, it's looking GREAT so far!

2) I can pre-shade by modulating the density of the black, from barely there to heavy black. You just need enough primer to cover the surface for the Alclad to stick to it later, so you don't need heavy black everywhere.

3) I have had no trouble getting other colors to completely cover the black underneath, so why bother with other primer colors?

" I'd avoid using Alclad's own black primer due to very common drying issues."

That's very interesting. You mean that you would not suggest to use 'Alclad / ALC-304 Gloss Black Base' as a primer?

Would you give me some more elaboration?

I've been following many threads in the Tools 'n' Tips Forum where many have had a lot of difficulty with the Alclad primers, especially with drying time, which can be as long as weeks or almost never. Some claim that the key is to mix the primer very, very well and it performs just fine, but for me, why bother when I have cheap Krylon lacquer readily available and the one I use even says that it's made for plastic.

For more info, go to this forum and search "Alclad Primer". There are many threads on this subject.

Edited by chuck540z3
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Chuck, awesome progress on your Mustang! Love the little details you are adding! Also kudos to all of the experimentation you are indulging in... certainly a modelling education for most of us. I'm very curios to see the final ammo belt assemby you will run with.

Looking forward to seeing her in all her natural-metal beauty!

:worship:/>

Marcel

Edited by Marcel111
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NIce work chuck!

that tamiya counpoud look really nice !! Did you only use the fine ??

I discovered Tamiya polishing compounds

Is that stuff good enouph to polish out molding seams like on the F-14/18/16 canopies ? ive been using the micro mesh sanding pads for those but its a paint in the booty!!

Cheers

Neo

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