nimrod77 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) As always Chuck a very informative post. Keepup the amazing work! Edited February 16, 2013 by nimrod77 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dsahling Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Chuck, really nice work with the puttying on the wings, very subtle effect, your attention to detail is impressive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Very nice work Chuck!!! You need to touch up with aluminium a small black portion on the left flap, at the area that goes under the wing. Dont know if you have seen it! Keep up the good work Chuck, i am waiting for the rest of the weathering procedure.. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Very nice work Chuck!!! You need to touch up with aluminium a small black portion on the left flap, at the area that goes under the wing. Dont know if you have seen it! Keep up the good work Chuck, i am waiting for the rest of the weathering procedure.. John John, I'm not quite sure what you mean? If you mean that dark spot on the flap, I WANT it that way, along with the rest of the dark spots all over the place to indicate wear and grime. Is it the dark spot here? If so, don't worry about it. I plan to make things even dirtier! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephencraig Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi Chuck. I guess I'm the slow one here. I didn't quite understand the Krylon/Alcan discussion. Are you saying you should let the Krylon cure a long time before applying the Alcad? Or are you saying to let the Alcad cure a long time before masking? Or both? Stephen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 No Chuck i mean the portion of the stripe on the area that is hidden when the flaps are in the up position (dont know the word). But i can see at the original pic that this area is also painted so 99% my mistake! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi Chuck. I guess I'm the slow one here. I didn't quite understand the Krylon/Alcan discussion. Are you saying you should let the Krylon cure a long time before applying the Alcad? Or are you saying to let the Alcad cure a long time before masking? Or both? Stephen What I'm trying to say is that the Krylon should be dry for a few days up to a few weeks, but not months when it has lost all of the volatiles and other paints like Alclad have a hard time "dissolving into" them. For example, if I put a Q-tip of lacquer thinner on Krylon after a few days of drying, it dissolves almost immediately. If I try to do the same thing after months of drying, I have to rub the paint a little to get it to lift. It will lift alright, but it takes a lot more effort. I think the same thing is going on with Alclad, which bites into the Krylon when the lacquer thinner within the paint partially dissolves the upper surface to create a strong bond. In my example, the engine cowlings have had Krylon painted on them many months ago and the paint is rock hard. The Alclad painted on top of these parts is acting like there is no primer at all, because the paint lifts easily with masking tape, just as it would on bare plastic. For a few small parts like these, the repairs are easy, because the paint is super thin (no harsh edges that are easy to buff out) and the parts are portable. If it was like this on the main fuselage, it would be a bit of disaster, because I have had to mask and re-mask the model many times with the various colors of Alclad and now the enamel paint colors. I have had no lifting of Alclad whatsoever, so I have to assume the only difference is Krylon drying time. No Chuck i mean the portion of the stripe on the area that is hidden when the flaps are in the up position (dont know the word). But i can see at the original pic that this area is also painted so 99% my mistake! John [/quote No worries John. Although it looks like I'm almost finished, I have a LOT more to do with painting and other details, so I can still touch up things here and there. Meanwhile, I've got other bits like the gas tanks, prop and canopy almost done, but some of these parts are going back for repairs, which slows things down even more (seam lines on the tanks still show). Next step is to sand down all of the model with fine sandpaper, creating wear and tear on the new paint, then a good coat of Alclad gloss lacquer to prep for decals and to create a hard barrier on the Alclad for future handling with greasy fingers. I'll then do lots of weathering techniques, prior to a final coat of Alclad matte and or dull coats. To me, this is the most fun of modeling because I get to be "artsy". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anders_Isaksson Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Man, this build has really come a long way now. Great work as always, Chuck! Still haven't opened the plastic bags in my kit yet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Thanks Anders. This kit is probably the best one I've ever worked on and it's almost hard to improve it, but I'm trying! You'll love it. I call this next section, "Weathering by Sanding". From the very beginning with the cockpit, I have painted just about every single part with black Krylon followed by Alclad, so that I could sand parts down after painting other colors to reveal the metallic finish underneath. I've never done this before, but it seemed to make sense and so far I'm very happy with the results. I'm sure the armor guys use similar methods. I noticed on many pics that the invasion stripes on the rear mid-section are often beat up and eroded off the corners of the bottom. I presume this is due to debris flying up into the fuselage from the prop blowing crap back and the landing gear when it touches down. After the black and white Krylon dried, I sanded down these edges to reveal the metal finish underneath. It isn't pretty, but I want it that way.... From the top, the erosion is more subtle.... I'm sure a lot of this detail will be lost after I spray a gloss coat for decals, so I'll likely have to sand it again near the end of the build. I'm really happy with the prop and engine cowlings. Remember, I haven't added a drop of weathering wash to anything yet, so these parts should "pop" even more later. Reviewing pics of wartime P-51D's, I noticed the leading edges of the prop were sandblasted through the black paint, but the core part of the prop wasn't. I found out that this inner area has a rubberized coating, hence the lack of erosion. To create this effect, I just sanded down these edges with 4000 grit sanding cloths to reveal the Alclad underneath. I did the same to the rest of the prop parts and leading edges of the wings, revealing some really cool eroded detail... One complaint about this kit is that the Dzus fasteners are raised instead of flush, like they are in real life. I used this raised detail to my advantage, by sanding them down to make them pop. With wear and tear removing them all the time, a lot of them lost their paint finish in the process. I really like how those metallic panels are coming along- again by just sanding down Alclad to reveal a touch of black underneath.. A view from the top. The olive drab I painted here doesn't look dark enough to me, so I think with some dark weathering washes, things will darken up to about the right level of a slightly darker green... Add weathering washes to the above and this model should look really good. I can hardly wait- but I have a number of decals to deal with yet. Thanks for checking in! Edited February 18, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Chuck, absolutely superb work! Your "weathering by sanding" technique really makes the model come to life. Bravo! Marcel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Quite beautiful indeed! Your work with Alclads looks very convincing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth2307 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 How I missed this build until now is beyond me. Beautiful work! Can't wait to see another salt weathering job! Keep up the great work and thanks for all the tips and techniques! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thank god I dont work for CSI. I see a finger print on the black. Excellent as usual my friend. I use the same technique as you do for the painting black, green, then alclad. Only I have never used alclad. I just use MM silver and aluminum. Then sanding afterwards to reveal the weathering look. I say it works really well and will continue to use it till someone like you points me in a different direction. I never realized invasion stripes were on the underside of the wings as well. What were those stripes for anyway. Was it strictly for recognition. I am contesting trying my hand at NMF on my next build but am very weary of trying it with foil. I am not even sure where to get alclad from as I have never used it. I am waiting for your weathering to justify my buying a whole bunch more new paint so I can start something new. Maybe a B-17 or even a B-29 we will see. Props Chuck you sir are a Grand Master at building fine scale models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Thank you Gents! Thank god I don't work for CSI. I see a finger print on the black. Excellent as usual my friend. I use the same technique as you do for the painting black, green, then alclad. Only I have never used alclad. I just use MM silver and aluminum. Then sanding afterwards to reveal the weathering look. I say it works really well and will continue to use it till someone like you points me in a different direction. I never realized invasion stripes were on the underside of the wings as well. What were those stripes for anyway. Was it strictly for recognition. I am contesting trying my hand at NMF on my next build but am very weary of trying it with foil. I am not even sure where to get alclad from as I have never used it. I am waiting for your weathering to justify my buying a whole bunch more new paint so I can start something new. Maybe a B-17 or even a B-29 we will see. Props Chuck you sir are a Grand Master at building fine scale models. Ha! Busted Josh! I saw the same thing shortly after I posted the pics. As mentioned many times, this is one of the benefits of doing a detailed WIP thread with super close photographs, because the camera lens doesn't lie. That pic is from about 2-3" with a macro lens, which I don't usually see with my magnifying glasses. If you look at the vent just forward of the fuselage stripes, I managed to sand off a bit of the metal finish on those as well as I sanded the stripes. Both flaws, I assure you, are not fixed, but I'm sure I have a lot more to fix in the immediate future. The invasion stripes, from what I've read, were to identify Allied aircraft from the Germans on D-Day so that friendly fire incidents were minimized, especially with ground anti-aircraft fire. For this reason, stripes under the aircraft were probably more important those those on top. I don't really know much about this topic, so if others could chime in it might be interesting and informative. I buy Alclad products from my local hobby shop, but they usually only have the standard big sellers, so I now buy everything from Great Hobbies right here in Canada for us Canucks. With international shipping restrictions with paints and solvents, it's great to have a local source for the full line of Alclad products. I've ordered from them 3 times now and everything has been seamless and even cheaper than my local supplier. Website is here: http://www.greathobbies.com/ For you Americans and others throughout the world, I'm sure you can find a similar supplier of the Alclad line. For bare metal finishes, nothing is better- and I have many MM metallic paints as well. The Model Master line is fine for accents, etc. but they won't stick to anything and are easily rubbed off, so you have to pick your painting opportunities with these paints with care. Edited February 19, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I get my Alclad from Luckymodels (there on sale now btw) never had issue with shipping Great work Chuck she looks amazing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephencraig Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thanks for the additional explanation, Chuck. So would the following summary be correct? for best results with Krylon and Alcad, give the Krylon at least a few days to cure, but not weeks. The longer you can give the Alcad to cure before masking the better (again, at least a few days?). Stephen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'm intrigued to see where this leads. I like the eroded effect on certain areas as it looks convincing. I'm wondering why you began this kind of work before decalling though? Won't you have to back-track a little and redo some areas once the decals are applied? Man! this thing will come alive with the oil streaks, exhaust staining and other grime that's to follow. :wub: Keep at it, she's looking mighty fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 For best results with Krylon and Alcad, give the Krylon at least a few days to cure, but not weeks. The longer you can give the Alclad to cure before masking the better (again, at least a few days?). Stephen Roger all that. What I should have also mentioned is that you don't want to apply Alclad for at least 2 days, or it might craze as it melts the Krylon before it has had a chance to dry a bit. I'm intrigued to see where this leads. I like the eroded effect on certain areas as it looks convincing. I'm wondering why you began this kind of work before decalling though? Won't you have to back-track a little and redo some areas once the decals are applied? Yes, there will be a lot of decal weathering later to bring them down to the worn look, but there's no way I'm sanding them, so I decided to sand all the paint surfaces first. I've seen others sand decals with some success, but I'm terrified that I'll just wind up tearing them, so I plan on painting a slightly dull and mottled finish right over them. Think "SALT"! You knew I couldn't avoid my favorite weathering method! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) No big update to show today, but I do have something I want to point out that deserves special attention. I just started the decals, armed with the kit ones, the Zotz decals (ZTZ32/042) and a set of Fundekals stencils. With a BMF, the kit decals are a bit too thick and they have too much carrier film on many of them. I've used Zotz decals before and they are really good, but the BEST decals I've ever used so far are the Fundekals set, which replace just about every kit one. They are super thin, have minimal carrier film, are tough when stressed and they lay down like thin paint with Microset and Microsol. As I've mentioned with all of the Barracuda after-market stuff, just BUY them! You won't be sorry- and they're even cheap. Website is here: Fundekals That is all. Edited February 21, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnS Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Chuck; I don't like your P-51 ... I luv it! :wub:/> Can't wait to see the decals applied. BTW, have you decided anything further about the gun ammo, or are you still going to leave the magazines empty? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hey chuck you ever tought about dry transfer?? they seam to be the best on BMF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Let's keep in mind that most of the stencils on Mustangs were actual decals so some silvering wouldn't be inaccurate at all. The Fundekals P-51D/K stencils are the ONLY accurate and complete Mustang stencils on the market. I personally provided the factory drawings for the stencils to Jennings Heilig and he is the only decal manufacturer who had the courage to sort through all the material, asking questions along the way in order to get every single detail right. I had sent the same material to two other manufacturers who asked for it but when they saw the amount of work required they ended up not using it. I am NOT affiliated with Fundekals but I do recommend their products having witnessed the serious of their research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hi Chuck; I don't like your P-51 ... I luv it! :wub:/>/>/> Can't wait to see the decals applied. BTW, have you decided anything further about the gun ammo, or are you still going to leave the magazines empty? John Thanks John. Right now she's going naked, which might be OK since I plan on displaying this model with both gun doors off and all engine cowlings in an "under maintenance" scenario, when live shells in the magazines might not have been allowed. If I find something in the future that might fit and look good, I can always add it later. Hey chuck you ever thought about dry transfers? They seam to be the best on BMF I used the HobbyDecal dry transfers on my last build of the F-4E below and although they look terrific when they're on, I had a really tough time getting them to stick on the glossy Future finish I had sprayed on for the other decals. I ruined several of them and had to go through about 3 different sheets before I got all the panels numbered, which is a LOT on the F-4. On this super smooth (and now glossy as well) finish on the Mustang, I'm sure I'll have the save grief and the Fundekals are so good and thin I don't think it will matter. Let's keep in mind that most of the stencils on Mustangs were actual decals so some silvering wouldn't be inaccurate at all. The Fundekals P-51D/K stencils are the ONLY accurate and complete Mustang stencils on the market. I personally provided the factory drawings for the stencils to Jennings Heilig and he is the only decal manufacturer who had the courage to sort through all the material, asking questions along the way in order to get every single detail right. I had sent the same material to two other manufacturers who asked for it but when they saw the amount of work required they ended up not using it. I am NOT affiliated with Fundekals but I do recommend their products having witnessed the serious of their research. Good to know Christian! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Here is another pic showing details of the tail section: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c2cc6eeb46e5fc32_large it looks like it had the 'salt' treatment. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Here is another pic showing details of the tail section: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c2cc6eeb46e5fc32_large it looks like it had the 'salt' treatment. Jari Is that weathered NMF or peeling aluminum paint (thought I read that Korea-era Mustangs were painted)? Interesting picture regardless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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