chuck540z3 Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Welcome back Chuck, great vacation photos!!!!Nice place and very exotic but i insist, you should take a cruise to Aegean islands, plenty of sun and waters without sharks!!!! As for modelling, what can i say, work of art my friend, as always, one question though, how did you clean the putty, over the Alclad? John Thanks John and good question, which I have had to deal with in other areas of this build already. As you know, a super smooth metallic finish shows every single tiny flaw imaginable which you can't see with the naked eye before paint. I've touched up a few of these by placing a bead of thinned putty on the offending area (as above), letting it dry, then sanding it down to the plastic with 1000 grit sandpaper- and sometimes even 600 grit if I need to get aggressive. I then feather the blemish out with progressively finer sandpapers up to 2000 grit, then I use an 8000 grit sanding cloth to get the area super smooth and edge-free. If the paint is well cured, like this lacquer paint is right now after almost 3 weeks of drying, you can achieve this easily with careful sanding work. I then re-prime the bare plastic with Krylon gloss black lacquer and spray another coat of Alclad a day later. Rather than show past results, I'll try to demonstrate how this looks on these new panel edits. I hope to achieve a gap free panel line that still shows a panel line slightly, just like the other panel lines and rivets on the top and bottom of the wing now. One other thing to keep in mind, is that this first coat of Alclad is just a "primer" of sorts to bring out all the flaws. I plan on painting many, many, subsequent coats of at least 6 other Alclad metallic colors on various panels, which I plan on documenting in the future for a reference. In hindsight for those using this WIP thread as a guide for a future build, I should have made up the gear legs sooner and glued the front panels in before I applied the first coat of paint. As far as I know, this is the only build of this kit I've seen with full gear wheel plumbing that goes into the gear doors (without trimming detail off), rear panel behind the cockpit glued in without gaps before canopy attachment and glued in panels in front of the gear legs. It has been a real pain doing it this way, but I think the end results will be unique enough to be worth it. We'll see! Oh, I know what you mean about the Aegean islands. I've cruised those too about 5 years ago and I loved them so much, I have already booked a future cruise to them again in 2014 on the very same ship I was on in Tahiti! Edited February 4, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 A few more stain pics: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/aef9863a94a70f26_large http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/69cb3471d33980b7_large note this one is more subdued: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/38c96f2df8e5ecd0_large These two pics show a tube in the hole, no doubt to keep the oil away from the fuselage: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b04db961fc1671b9_large http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/de93acb8c9295e86_large Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Chuck, good to have you back here! Hope your wisdom tooth is sorted out, that stuff can just be a bad experience all-round. The vacation pics look stunning... we could sure do with some sunshine over here. Nice work on the legs and really appreciate the mud on the tires! Marcel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Even more stain pics: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3ab333150358d64f_large http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e8ebe75ff117f714_large check the stain flow on the a/c on the right: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/f891431ec23322c8_large Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephencraig Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Chuck, Glad to see you back. I've missed the conversations on this thread. I got those flexible resin .50 cal belts from MDC. I'm not sure if they would work or not. I need to pull out one of the bays from the kits and compare the size of the shells. Just looking at the MDC belts they look a little small, but may not be once I compare. I'll send an update on it in the next couple of days. Stephen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Chuck, Glad to see you back. I've missed the conversations on this thread. I got those flexible resin .50 cal belts from MDC. I'm not sure if they would work or not. I need to pull out one of the bays from the kits and compare the size of the shells. Just looking at the MDC belts they look a little small, but may not be once I compare. I'll send an update on it in the next couple of days. Stephen Hi Stephen, I bought a set of the MDC belts and, I'm sorry to say, they're crap. They are about the right length, but the pointy ends of the shells look like needles and good luck cutting the excess flexible "resin" off. Even with a new #11 knife, I made a mess of mine, so they hit the trash can. Right now I'm actually getting some metal shells custom made by my modeling friend Mike O'Hare. See his post number #545 here: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=250499&st=544 These will be made in steel rather than brass, because the heads of the shells will be too thick in brass using 3D modeling software and available "printing" equipment- or so I'm told by Mike. I know NOTHING about this stuff, but Mike is a very bright guy and if he tells me it might work, I'm willing to spend the dough in order to find out. If they do work, Mike will likely do this commercially so that everyone who is interested can buy a set from him. If it doesn't, oh well. It's not like I don't have a lot of failed parts in the garbage can already! Edited February 5, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richdlc Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) hi chuck 0.50 cal shells you say? I used Mission Models 1/35 0.50 cal shells & belts successfully on a 1/32 Corsair - it was one of the fiddliest things ever but well worth the results if you can track them down I recommend it these are the spent shells but you can also get unfired rounds - in fact there's one in the picture, right at the top in the middle Edited February 5, 2013 by richdlc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) hi chuck 0.50 cal shells you say? I used Mission Models 1/35 0.50 cal shells & belts successfully on a 1/32 Corsair - it was one of the fiddliest things ever but well worth the results if you can track them down I recommend it these are the spent shells but you can also get unfired rounds - in fact there's one in the picture, right at the top in the middle Thanks for the tip and I would LOVE to try those shells, but as the saying goes, "been there, done that" a few months ago: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=250499&st=450 It appears that the MM shells are discontinued and I can't find a supplier anywhere. Too bad too, because they look like they might have been a perfect fit. Edited February 6, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richdlc Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 hi chuck yes, they are discontinued - I got a job lot from Squadron a few months back I can understand fully about it being too fiddly - I spent around 20 hours assembling a belt a couple of inches long Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephencraig Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Chuck, If I may ask, how much are the belts costing from Mike. I was going to ask if I could get some as well. I went back and re-read the post. I was concentrating so hard about what you were doing with the rivet tool I completely missed the part about the belts :huh: Stephen Edited February 6, 2013 by stephencraig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) As for modelling, what can i say, work of art my friend, as always, one question though, how did you clean up the putty over the Alclad? John Since I was doing this anyway, I documented my process for doing a late edit in filling in a gap or flaw after painting. With super smooth Alclad, every tiny flaw shows, so you need to take extra care when filling in a gap at this late stage. First, another pic of the problem area, which is the magnetic insert panel in front of the landing gear. Since modelers almost always put the landing gear on last, you'll find that most builds of this kit are left with a significant gap around this panel which looks very unnatural, much like the gaps around the rear landing gear if it is left unfilled.... After gluing the part in, I fill the gap with some thinned Tamiya basic putty, using Tamiya lacquer thinner to get the putty to a honey-like viscosity. I assume this mixture is much like Mr. Sufacer 500, although I've never tried the stuff.... After the putty has dried for a full day, sand it down, but also sand into the surrounding areas to eliminate any harsh edges. For this first step I used some fairly coarse 600# sandpaper, which also removed the small panel line and a few rivets.... Although I have filled in all panel lines and rivets on the wing already, they are only partially filled to replicate some wear and tear in the field, so I added back the panel line and a few rivets, but barely, in order to match the rest of the wing. I then sanded everything down with 1000# sandpaper, followed by 8000# polishing cloth, in a wider and wider circular motion to blend everything into the surrounding wing. The rough look to the putty in the gap is due to a combination of darker dried glue and lighter colored putty. It really is quite smooth within the gap.... Same on the other side.... Don't forget to fill the gaps on the bottom. In this case the gap on the outside of this panel is tight, so it doesn't require any putty, but the inboard panel line does. The gear legs are carefully masked off using sandpaper wrapped around the legs (grit outside) to keep the tape off the delicate decals..... Once everything has been carefully smoothed out, I re-apply Krylon gloss black lacquer which has been thinned with more Tamiya lacquer thinner. Straight out of the can, it's a bit too thick and it sometimes sputters and leaves a dusty rough look. With the thinner (about 25%), it lays down super flat and smooth, but it does slow down drying times from 1-2 days to 2-3 days before you can sand it.... Once dry, I re-sand the black lacquer with 8000# sanding cloth to remove any tiny crap or rough spots. This pic makes it look much lighter than it really is.... You can then re-spray the Alclad, in this case Polished Aluminum as a base coat. I'll be spraying a duller Aluminum color on the wings later..... I think this looks much better now without any obvious gaps and the detail matches the rest of the wing. The heavily riveted panel in the upper left background is the unfilled gun door, which will not be used later.... Chuck, If I may ask, how much are the belts costing from Mike. I was going to ask if I could get some as well. I went back and re-read the post. I was concentrating so hard about what you were doing with the rivet tool I completely missed the part about the belts :huh: Stephen Hi Stephen. Let me be the "guinea pig", because the belts are not cheap and they may be a bust. As mentioned many times, there's a good chance this Mustang will be displayed with no shells at all, with all shells removed for safety. Who knows, this might even look "accurate" after all! Edited February 7, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hi Chuck, note in this pic: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/69cb3471d33980b7_large the spent and live rounds on the ground below the wing, the a/c has returned from a mission and the leftover rounds were most likely pushed thru the spent case chutes. Perhaps you can get the Voyagermodel short belt and have your Mustang just returned from a mission with a few rounds remaining and of course have soot and stains on the airframe. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hi Chuck, note in this pic: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/69cb3471d33980b7_large the spent and live rounds on the ground below the wing, the a/c has returned from a mission and the leftover rounds were most likely pushed thru the spent case chutes. Perhaps you can get the Voyagermodel short belt and have your Mustang just returned from a mission with a few rounds remaining and of course have soot and stains on the airframe. Jari Thanks Jari for all those very cool pics you've posted. I'll be using them a lot when I get to weathering. Where were they taken anyway? Pacific? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The pics were taken in Korea, however most details wouldn't have changed much i think. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Overall Mustangs in Korea got much dirtier than WWII P-51's. There were some other differences (not always very visible), the radio systems were for the most part later models and the wings were often left bare (unputtied) in Korea. ordnance could also differ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hey Chuck, I don't want to try and high jack your thread but I am going to start a 1/48th P-51 mustang soon and was wondering if you might point me in a direction to where you have found all your references from. I know here and prime portal have great walk arounds but I am hoping for pictures of aircraft that have been painted and not in the bare metal form. Your P-51 is ridiculously perfect and I am humbled by your skill at building models. The F-4 and the F-18 were true works of art but I am going out on a limb and will be the first to say I think this will be your Master Piece. Thank you for your wonderful and insightful threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Everybody, thank you very much for your kind comments and condolences. For those who may be interested in some pics of my vacation, I have a few of our trip to Tahiti, Bora Bora and Moorea here: http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh66/chuck540z3/Tahiti/ Very romantic and picturesque ..beautiful scenic photos..glad that you both had a good holiday. :wub: ...and your updates/ work is very neatly detailed..it's getting good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Thanks Holmes! Hey Chuck, I don't want to try and high jack your thread but I am going to start a 1/48th P-51 mustang soon and was wondering if you might point me in a direction to where you have found all your references from. I know here and prime portal have great walk arounds but I am hoping for pictures of aircraft that have been painted and not in the bare metal form. Your P-51 is ridiculously perfect and I am humbled by your skill at building models. The F-4 and the F-18 were true works of art but I am going out on a limb and will be the first to say I think this will be your Master Piece. Thank you for your wonderful and insightful threads. Thanks Josh. I try to make each model a little bit better than the last effort, but the F-4E is a fairly high bar to get over after 14 months of work. Time will tell! As far as valuable P-51D links are concerned, I do have a few favorites that anyone even thinking of building a Mustang should bookmark. Some I found on my own, while others were given to me, so I am not claiming that I found them all. I'll start of with my favorite for great pics of wartime P-51D's. There is a lot of inspiration here for my future weathering, even if it is in Spanish: http://www.network54.com/Forum/615009/thread/1315432839/Portada+comentada+%28+Fotos+en+color,Planos,Maquetas%2B+Videos%29+North+American+P-51+Mustang A few good walk-around links are here- as you mentioned, Prime Portal is good (click on P-51D links): http://www.primeportal.net/the_airstrip.htm And a few others: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7273217/Walk-Around-n07-North-American-P51D-Mustang-96 http://midwestaero.com/articles/daddysgirl.pdf http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/12/stuff_eng_detail_p51d_03.htm http://blog.net-maquettes.com/en/walk-around/p-51d-25-na-mustang/ http://www.westpacrestorations.com/index.php?page=p-51-mustang The ARC one isn't bad: http://www.arcair.com/awa01/101-200/awa107-P51D/00.shtm For cockpit details, showing the progression of of how the P-51D cockpit changed over the years, this link is pure GOLD!- even if it is a digital representation of the real deal: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?67911-OT-P-51D-Cockpit-Progression-Walk-Through Same for the gun bay: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?59642-Warbirdsim-P-51D-5-NA-Little-Friends-II-OUT-NOW!-%28Pay-ware%29/page5 A good data base for serial numbers and production runs is here: http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51production.shtml I'm sure there are many other good ones, so if you guys would like to share them, please post them here for everyone- including me! Edited February 7, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Another update- and another screw-up. I was getting ready to apply the various shade of Alclad aluminum to various panel when I discovered THIS!!!!!!! The tips of the wings have some very sharp points which I've been trying to avoid breaking, but my luck finally gave out. These wingtip ends hook onto everything as you flip the model over and over and they are very fragile, being very thin plastic. I must have leaned the wing against something when I was sanding down the gear leg inserts, breaking the tip off. Although I found the tip, my attempts at gluing it back on securely failed several times, using plain Tamiya glue and CA glue. The sucker cracked off every time I gave it any stress, so it was doomed to be an Achilles heel of this build. DISASTER! One of the most important skills I'm learning as I become a better modeler is to deal with "tragedies" just like this, to turn the clock back and fix parts, paint finishes, cracks, etc. very late in a build. It turns out that the fragile rods on one of the wing flaps also broke off, which I repaired successfully with a steel rod. With this in mind, I decided to recreate the part with CA glue, rather than try to glue the missing tip on. I used the shaft of a mini drill bit as a core, after drilling a hole and cementing it in. This drill bit is super strong and won't bend, so it's the perfect nucleus. To do this I actually cut more of the wingtip off, to give me enough thickness within the wing to make the drill hole... Using CA glue, I drizzled it on, using glue accelerator to force the glue to dry into globs, rather than dripping off...... After carefully sanding and shaping the part to match the undamaged one on the other wingtip, you get something darn close to the original. With the drill bit shaft as a core, this part is now rock solid.... And then after re-painting from scratch, VOILA!, a new wingtip! I was even able to add some rivet detail while the CA glue was young and soft. I'm still not that sure about the partially filled panel lines and rivets on the wings, but maybe they'll look a lot better after weathering.... The top looks as good as new as well.... Whew!. Now back to final aluminum painting. Using reference pics and a diagram of how somebody else guessed at the right colors of Alclad, I spayed various panels in Aluminum, Duraluminum, Dark Aluminum, Polished Aluminum, White Aluminum, Airframe Aluminum and Stainless Steel. To tell you the truth, I think you can easily get away with just Aluminum, Duraluminum, Polished Aluminum and just a bit of Stainless Stell, because the color contrast is minimal, even to the naked eye. Here's a few pics I took tonight to show how things look now, because I plan on changing things a lot from this point forward with some invasion stripes and other painted details in enamels. The harsh light makes photography of these color contrasts tricky, but I think enough shows through to give you an idea of what it really looks like. I also plan on weathering this bird quite a bit, partly because the real deal was pretty dirty, but mostly because I just like it that way. Those removable engine cowling panels are really cool and are held on with magnets.... Edited February 11, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Now I need YOUR help! Getting pics of Thunder Bird are hard to come by (P-51D-10-NA, 44-14570, flown by Capt. Ted E Lines, of the 335th FS 4th Fighter Group) and even three decal manufacturers have made some mistakes. For instance, none of them have the black and white "Invasion Stripes" on the belly behind the cockpit, which this bird clearly has in this hard to see shot.... Trying to figure out the stripes is hard, because the forward white stripe just to the right of the "WD", appears to be heavily faded or maybe even absent. The small "D" to the right of the stripes, may or may not have a white background. Here's a color pic I found of a sister Mustang to Thunder Bird, showing how the striping pattern might be. If true, I'm not a fan of that small white block that the "A" sits on. Is the "D" on Thunder Bird on a similar white block? Sooo, if anybody can dig up some more reference pics for this squadron, please post them here or let me know via PM. Right now I'm inclined to have a white/black/white/black striped belly with no white block at the end. Thanks guys! Edited February 11, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkey Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Spectacular!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honza K. Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Hello Chuck, I dont know, if is spectacular, than you haven ´t panel lines around the putty panels on the wings... Under the silver It´s really don´t look good.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Hello Chuck, I dont know, if is spectacular, than you haven ´t panel lines around the putty panels on the wings... Under the silver It´s really don´t look good.... Hi Honza. P-51D's in WW-II had all the panel lines and rivets puttied in for perceived improvements in air flow. With wear and tear, some of the putty was removed or compressed into the recesses, leaving a hit and miss pattern of where the detail came and went. I've tried to replicate this pattern and as you can see from the pic below, I most certainly tried to fill most of it. Maybe it will look great when finished, maybe crappy, but there's no turning back now. Edited February 11, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Chuck the invasion stripes were not added until June 4th so prior to that date Thunderbird wouldn't have had them. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Fey Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Now I need YOUR help! Getting pics of Thunder Bird are hard to come by (P-51D-10-NA, 44-14570, flown by Capt. Ted E Lines, of the 335th FS 4th Fighter Group) and even three decal manufacturers have made some mistakes. For instance, none of them have the black and white "Invasion Stripes" on the belly behind the cockpit, which this bird clearly has in this hard to see shot.... Trying to figure out the stripes is hard, because the forward white stripe just to the right of the "WD", appears to be heavily faded or maybe even absent. The small "D" to the right of the stripes, may or may not have a white background. Here's a color pic I found of a sister Mustang to Thunder Bird, showing how the striping pattern might be. If true, I'm not a fan of that small white block that the "A" sits on. Is the "D" on Thunder Bird on a similar white block? Sooo, if anybody can dig up some more reference pics for this squadron, please post them here or let me know via PM. Right now I'm inclined to have a white/black/white/black striped belly with no white block at the end. Thanks guys! Chuck, Love your builds and thought I'd chime in. I think you've discovered why black and white photos are so hard to decipher. Depending on who made the film, some colors don't show even close to correct. That first photo, the first white strip extends up towards the bar in the star and bar. Same with the aft white stripe. I think it may have been a holdover from when the aircraft had complete stripes--when crews removed them, they left the parts that would have required more work/repainting (meaning the squadron codes). The color photo shows that--you can just barely make out the white extending up. I've been slowly working on a P-47 and I've seen the same variation. Thanks for sharing your work with us--I know that taking photos, editing and then loading everything up is quite a pain, but that's what makes us all better. -Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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