Tamiya 1/100 Space Shuttle

[crowe-t]

Everything looks great so far. It makes sense to glue the speed brake. Trying to paint something that keeps moving can only spell disaster. :o

You may be surprised at how much of the payload door expansion joints are sanded down. I've noticed that different brand sanding sticks are either softer or stiffer. It can't hurt to try out a few and see what works best for a particular application.

You can apply some plain old masking tape over areas and details you don't want to sand. It sometimes helps.

The cockpit and astronauts look very good. I can't wait to see it with the decals.

I don't think any of the kits really got the notches by the wing elevons correct. In fact the 1/144 Revell shuttle doesn't have the notches at all. I had to make them on my current build.

Keep up the great work!

Mike.

Edited June 28, 2012 by crowe-t

[Pinky coffeeboat]

Hello hotdog,

Firstly, your build is coming on nicely. I'm currently building both the Revell and Airfix 1/144 shuttle stacks, but have become a bit bogged down with filling and sanding that I look at my Tamiya shuttle and think about starting that to help revive my interest. So I'll be watching this build for tips and suggestions.

The wings should have a notch out by the elevons, something the Revell kit doesn't have (but the Airfix kit does). Have a look at NASA website and there are literally thousands of photos, many showing the orbiters being serviced. Close up photos of just about everywhere can be found. I found this helpful when trying to add them to my Revell orbiter.

Hope this helps and keep up the good work!!

[Hotdog]

The wings should have a notch out by the elevons, something the Revell kit doesn't have (but the Airfix kit does). Have a look at NASA website and there are literally thousands of photos, many showing the orbiters being serviced. Close up photos of just about everywhere can be found. I found this helpful when trying to add them to my Revell orbiter.

It's not the notch that bothers me. I know the notch is supposed to be there. It's the tip of the elevon underneath the notch that I think is shaped funny.

Compare:

The wingtips are pretty thick in that spot, so I may need a Dremel sander for this one.

[Pinky coffeeboat]

Oh yeah - I hadn't noticed that!! yep, definitely strange :unsure:

Maybe a bit of careful sanding after the wings have been joined is required. I think the Hasegawa 1/200 kit looks right, it has the similar notch and elevon plan.

I think we need to start a petition of all the model companies to produce decent modern "state-of-the-art" shuttle kits? Oddly enough, I imagine Hobby Boss (or Trumpeter) would be the best place to start...

[Hotdog]

I think we need to start a petition of all the model companies to produce decent modern "state-of-the-art" shuttle kits? Oddly enough, I imagine Hobby Boss (or Trumpeter) would be the best place to start...

Yeah, but then we wouldn't get to have all this extra fun sanding and scratchbuilding!

[K2Pete]

Hotdog, you really don't need a Dremel for any of the sanding on these styrene kits. By the time you get the Dremel, place the bit, plug it in and try to take off just a little material, you coulda finished the job with a little elbow grease. File it down by hand and in 30 seconds it's done. Whenever I've used a Dremel, I've always taken off TOO MUCH material and then it takes another hour to build it back up again.

But you may not have any of these tools like Mini-files, and coarse sandpaper nail files that you can get 40 of 'em at the dollar store. Sanding and filing are just part and parcel of this model building hobby.

Even for the shuttle's belly, a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry paper, cut or torn into 2" strips, with a 1" x 2" piece of wood and voila, sanding block. No need to glue it 'cuz it'll just fill up with plastic and need to be changed out.

Not too long ago I was in the same position as you are ... just starting out. It seems like there are a thousand ways to manipulate styrene into a nice looking model ... and I'm tryin' them all!

Anyways, here's a few pix of my Tamiya Shuttle. Remember, that this was built as my 3rd or 4th model ... EVER. So I was THEN where you are NOW ... just tryin' to figger out the ins and outs of this, seemingly, easy pass-time. And now, I still consider myself a Freshman or, at most, a Novice at this hobby. :)

If you've got any questions, just fire away! Hope these help!

Pete

2 types (textures) of First-Aid tape were used. The decals are home made. The belly decals are Cutting Edge decals reduced to fit. And weathering was with Pastels.

[crowe-t]

Pete,

It's always a pleasure seeing your Tamiya Endeavour!

Mike.

[Hotdog]

Hotdog, you really don't need a Dremel for any of the sanding on these styrene kits. By the time you get the Dremel, place the bit, plug it in and try to take off just a little material, you coulda finished the job with a little elbow grease. File it down by hand and in 30 seconds it's done. Whenever I've used a Dremel, I've always taken off TOO MUCH material and then it takes another hour to build it back up again.

But you may not have any of these tools like Mini-files, and coarse sandpaper nail files that you can get 40 of 'em at the dollar store. Sanding and filing are just part and parcel of this model building hobby.

Even for the shuttle's belly, a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry paper, cut or torn into 2" strips, with a 1" x 2" piece of wood and voila, sanding block. No need to glue it 'cuz it'll just fill up with plastic and need to be changed out.

Not too long ago I was in the same position as you are ... just starting out. It seems like there are a thousand ways to manipulate styrene into a nice looking model ... and I'm tryin' them all!

Anyways, here's a few pix of my Tamiya Shuttle. Remember, that this was built as my 3rd or 4th model ... EVER. So I was THEN where you are NOW ... just tryin' to figger out the ins and outs of this, seemingly, easy pass-time. And now, I still consider myself a Freshman or, at most, a Novice at this hobby. :)

If you've got any questions, just fire away! Hope these help!

Pete

Oooh I didn't even think about the disposable nail files! I think my sanding issue is def a matter of not having the right tools. The sandpaper blocks i bought at the hobby store are soft foam blocks, which are not very conductive to elbow-greasing.

Your Endeavour looks great. I plan on using pastels as well (although my 1992 version of Discovery will not require as much). So what was your solution to the Tamiya engine bells? Did you modify them or create your own?

Thanks for all the good input. Glad to be in the company of experienced shuttle modelers! I was a teenager the last time I built these kits and I was not using any of the techniques then that I am learning here!

[Zombie_61]

It's not the notch that bothers me. I know the notch is supposed to be there. It's the tip of the elevon underneath the notch that I think is shaped funny.

And you're right. Not only is the "notch" incorrectly shaped, but the groove representing the separation between the wing and the elevon shouldn't have that odd curve at the outboard end:

Edited June 29, 2012 by Zombie_61

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, That's a great picture that Zombie_61 posted. It's not really a bad fix. It looks like you just have to straighten the top of the notch and then angle the side of the elevon a bit. Where the top of the notch starts looks OK. Just cut straight in at the top and remove the rest on the side of the elevon. The angled groove can be filled with some putty and re-scribed to continue straight to the end.

Mike.

[K2Pete]

Your Endeavour looks great. I plan on using pastels as well (although my 1992 version of Discovery will not require as much). So what was your solution to the Tamiya engine bells? Did you modify them or create your own?

The Engine Bells are the kit's, but I made the various lines from copper wire and glued 'em on to the plastic using CA glue ( Krazy glue). Styrene cement won't adhere metal and plastic. They were painted using Model Master Gunmetal ( enamel) and using a Q-tip, grey pastel was rubbed on to give 'em that used look.

And now, you're gonna learn how to scribe too? So now you'll need a scriber, some kind of mini-saw, a Pin vise (mini-drill) and mini-drill bits ... and what was it you said at the very start? Something about wanting to avoid drilling and sanding ...

If all you wanna do is put it together and paint it and put on your desk, that'll be perfect. But if you wanna use this model as a test-bed of sorts wherein you'll be learning and trying out a lot of new methods, that's perfect too. Either way, you'll get a certain sense of satisfaction at completing it ... just don't be in a rush to complete it.

And when you mentioned that you might be using the Xerox machine at work, be ... uh ... careful. The local Staples made decals for me using their Colour copier, but won't any more. Seems the decal film separates inside the copier and completely gums up the works. Just a heads-up.

[Hotdog]

The Engine Bells are the kit's, but I made the various lines from copper wire and glued 'em on to the plastic using CA glue ( Krazy glue). Styrene cement won't adhere metal and plastic. They were painted using Model Master Gunmetal ( enamel) and using a Q-tip, grey pastel was rubbed on to give 'em that used look.

And now, you're gonna learn how to scribe too? So now you'll need a scriber, some kind of mini-saw, a Pin vise (mini-drill) and mini-drill bits ... and what was it you said at the very start? Something about wanting to avoid drilling and sanding ...

If all you wanna do is put it together and paint it and put on your desk, that'll be perfect. But if you wanna use this model as a test-bed of sorts wherein you'll be learning and trying out a lot of new methods, that's perfect too. Either way, you'll get a certain sense of satisfaction at completing it ... just don't be in a rush to complete it.

And when you mentioned that you might be using the Xerox machine at work, be ... uh ... careful. The local Staples made decals for me using their Colour copier, but won't any more. Seems the decal film separates inside the copier and completely gums up the works. Just a heads-up.

I'm doing the same thing with my engine bells, but instead of copper wire I'm using some metal wire I found at the hardware store (which eliminates the Gunmetal painting step). I also anticipated needing some Krazy Glue for the task so I picked up a tube of that as well. And I have my pastels and q-tips ready to go for the finishing :)

I have a scriber as well. It came in handy for scribing out the grooves on the inside of the engine bells, as well as the insulation around the opening ring. I also have a mini hand drill for drilling out the star tracker ports on the orbiter nose. And to think I almost didn't buy the scriber. I'm glad I did now.

If all I wanted was to paint it and put it on my desk, I wouldn't be here. I want the kit to look as realistic as possible, without spending 5 years and $500 doing it. I want it to look like a finely detailed work of art, not a kids toy when its sitting on my desk at work. But since this is my first build in many years, I don't expect I'll be going all-out and trying to squeeze every technique into one build (although I'm certainly open to all suggestions). I'm in no hurry and have no set deadline, but I think it's realistic to say I will have this build done by end of summer if I keep working on it at the pace I've been going. This forum and the input I get from you guys keeps me motivated and on track.

No worries on using the office copier. The idiot at Staples probably ran the sheets through on a label or cardstock setting...which normally would be the logical thing to do, but what that does is feed the sheets in at a slower speed to avoid paper jams. This is not a good idea for model decals because the paper stays inside the copier longer and gets too hot, causing the film to separate and gum up like you mentioned. Feeding the paper through on the normal paper setting and at the normal speed works fine on most copiers, with the worst that could happen being a paper jam. I know all of this because I worked in the printing business for 5 years and ran my own copy shop :)

[Hotdog]

DAY 4: 6 hours

I drilled in the star tracker holes with a little handheld drill bit. I think I drilled the top hole just a tad too low, but I can live with it. I carved out the slots inside the holes very carefully with my Xacto knife, and tightly rolled up some sandpaper to sand the inside edges.

After that, I started painting the landing gear. I made the rookie mistake of gluing the wheels on before painting (doh!) which made it very hard to paint the wheels without getting Flat Black on the gear struts. I had a lot of touching up to do with the Testors White Acrylic to fix the errant brush strokes. I've built tons of model airplanes, but always in flight so this is my first time going through the process.

While I had my brushes out, I gave the inside of the engine bells a light wash of Flat Black, and then took a dry brush and wiped it off. This brought out the details of the grooves that I scribed very nicely.

Next I masked off the inside of the landing gear doors and painted the panels Chrome Silver. The Tamiya masking tape worked perfectly.

Next it was time to mask off the OMS thrusters and engine panel for painting Flat Black. Because of the assortment of odd angles and shapes, it took almost an hour just to do the masking!

Lastly, I did some more puttying and sanding on the belly and wings. Even with a block and some heavy sandpaper, ya can't really see any progress.

I keep having problems in this area as well. I've applied putty twice and the bond keeps breaking apart during sanding. Yes, I allowed the putty to dry several hours before sanding.

The right wing has a very thin gap between it and the fuselage. Should I attempt to putty this in, or do you think it will seal when I do the spray painting?

Any and all suggestions welcome, as always.

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, Very nice work on the SSME's as well as all the other details!

Is the bond on the bottom of the fuselage actually coming apart or is it just the bond of the putty to the plastic?

I see you had a tube of Testors glue in some of the photos for a size reference. Is that the glue you're using?

It's been a very long time since I used Testors tube glue but if I remember correctly it isn't a plastic weld type glue like liquid cement. However I may be mistaken about it.

I use Plastruct Plastic Weld liquid cement which is thick and Tamiya Extra Thin liquid cement. Liquid cements will melt the plastic together and form a strong bond. In a lot of cases the extra (liquid)glue that oozes out of the joint will act as it's own filler.

On my current shuttle build I cut some styrene strips and glued them on the inside of the fuselage join line. It helps to make sure the seam doesn't split apart. The first picture below shows the inside of the fuselage. The second picture shows the bottom after I sanded the center line. The center line didn't need any putty, only where the wings and body flap attached.

I'm not sure if paint will fill the join line of the wing to the fuselage, probably not if you apply the paint in thin even coats. If you do decide to fill it with putty, try applying some masking tape on both the wing and the fuselage as close to the seam as possible before applying the putty to keep the area of sanding to a minimum. I find it helps.

Mike.

Edited June 30, 2012 by crowe-t

[rightwinger26]

The right wing has a very thin gap between it and the fuselage. Should I attempt to putty this in, or do you think it will seal when I do the spray painting?

First off let me say great build so far, I'm really enjoying watching tis one! As for the wing root seam, you could try what I do because I mega loath sanding odd angles. First apply masking tape very close to both sides of the gap, on the fuselage and the wing. Next apply squadron green putty to the joint and sort of press it in but don't be worried about it not being flush, but don't leave a mountain either. Next remove the tape so there is just the thin strip of model bondo. Give it about a half hour or so to dry, the dip a q-tip in regular strength cutex nail polish remover ( make sure it's the regular strength stuff) then dap it on a paper towel so it's only moist ( to much will ruin the efforts and the plastic) then lightly run the q-tip down the length of the seam, when it gets covered in removed putty use a new on ect, ect. In a matter of five minutes or so less, the seam will vanish and only a light sanding with a very fine grit is required. I would suggest testing on an old test bed model if you have one to figure out how much cutex and pressure and so on you need first. I learned that the hard way when the polish remover ate a hole in an engine cowl. Once you get it down it work great, I filled the seams on a 1/48th B-17 in about two hours.

Best of luck and keep up the great work! Can't wait to see more.

Bill

[Hotdog]

Is the bond on the bottom of the fuselage actually coming apart or is it just the bond of the putty to the plastic?

I see you had a tube of Testors glue in some of the photos for a size reference. Is that the glue you're using?

It's been a very long time since I used Testors tube glue but if I remember correctly it isn't a plastic weld type glue like liquid cement. However I may be mistaken about it.

I use Plastruct Plastic Weld liquid cement which is thick and Tamiya Extra Thin liquid cement. Liquid cements will melt the plastic together and form a strong bond. In a lot of cases the extra (liquid)glue that oozes out of the joint will act as it's own filler.

On my current shuttle build I cut some styrene strips and glued them on the inside of the fuselage join line. It helps to make sure the seam doesn't split apart. The first picture below shows the inside of the fuselage. The second picture shows the bottom after I sanded the center line. The center line didn't need any putty, only where the wings and body flap attached.

I'm not sure if paint will fill the join line of the wing to the fuselage, probably not if you apply the paint in thin even coats. If you do decide to fill it with putty, try applying some masking tape on both the wing and the fuselage as close to the seam as possible before applying the putty to keep the area of sanding to a minimum. I find it helps.

Mike.

Yes, the bond did come apart in that area. There probably wasn't much of a bond at all. I tried to use a very thin line of cement (and yes I'm using Testors) in order to get a clean seam.

[Hotdog]

First off let me say great build so far, I'm really enjoying watching tis one! As for the wing root seam, you could try what I do because I mega loath sanding odd angles. First apply masking tape very close to both sides of the gap, on the fuselage and the wing. Next apply squadron green putty to the joint and sort of press it in but don't be worried about it not being flush, but don't leave a mountain either. Next remove the tape so there is just the thin strip of model bondo. Give it about a half hour or so to dry, the dip a q-tip in regular strength cutex nail polish remover ( make sure it's the regular strength stuff) then dap it on a paper towel so it's only moist ( to much will ruin the efforts and the plastic) then lightly run the q-tip down the length of the seam, when it gets covered in removed putty use a new on ect, ect. In a matter of five minutes or so less, the seam will vanish and only a light sanding with a very fine grit is required. I would suggest testing on an old test bed model if you have one to figure out how much cutex and pressure and so on you need first. I learned that the hard way when the polish remover ate a hole in an engine cowl. Once you get it down it work great, I filled the seams on a 1/48th B-17 in about two hours.

Bill

Good idea Bill. I may try this with some mineral spirits and a wooden sculpting tool instead of cutex and a paper towel. I've not had much luck in the sanding department so anything I can do to keep that to a minimum is golden.

[Zombie_61]

I see you had a tube of Testors glue in some of the photos for a size reference. Is that the glue you're using?

It's been a very long time since I used Testors tube glue but if I remember correctly it isn't a plastic weld type glue like liquid cement. However I may be mistaken about it.

Just an fyi, Testors' Cement is a plastic weld type. Or maybe I should say it used to be; I haven't bought a tube for a few years, and with the EPA forcing everyone to make their products environmentally friendly here in the U.S. Testors may have had to change their formula. I hope they haven't, 'cuz I've been using good ol' Testors for more than 40 years now and I've gotten pretty good at using just the right amount to melt the parts together without marring the surface.

...then dip a q-tip in regular strength cutex nail polish remover ( make sure it's the regular strength stuff)...

You can use any brand of nail polish remover as long as it's acetone-based. I've been using this technique for quite a few years now, and with a little practice you can get to the point where only the slightest amount of sanding (or none at all) will be necessary--particularly helpful when you're seam filling in an area where you need to preserve the surface detail on the kit.

Different putties react somewhat differently though. For example, I use Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty for most seam-filling and it starts to cure rather quickly, so you have to hit it with the nail polish remover almost immediately. The key, as Bill stated, is to make sure the Q-Tip is moist, not saturated; too much nail polish remover will break down the putty to the point that it just becomes a runny mess.

Good idea Bill. I may try this with some mineral spirits and a wooden sculpting tool instead of cutex and a paper towel. I've not had much luck in the sanding department so anything I can do to keep that to a minimum is golden.

I would definitely proceed with caution and test this on something other than your kit. In my experience mineral spirits don't evaporate as quickly as acetone, and might mar the styrene. Also, Q-Tips are suggested because the soft cotton distributes the remover/acetone evenly, leaves a nice, smooth finish on the putty, and blends the edges nicely. A wooden sculpting tool might be too rigid and leave small gouges in the surface that would have to be touched-up after the fact. But then, I've never tried it, so you might be on to something. Either way, please share your results with us!

Edited June 30, 2012 by Zombie_61

[Hotdog]

DAY 5: 3.5 hours

Here I go, masking off the area around the seam:

I applied the putty and gave it a quick hit with the sculptor's wooden smoothing tool. As you can see in the pic, the tape did a great job of catching the excess putty:

Then I removed the masking tape while the putty was still wet (not sure if I should have allowed it to set or not).

A very thin line of putty. Looks like it will need some sanding. I will tackle this tomorrow after it has dried.

Next I weathered the engine bells with pastels and a q-tip. I used gray, except for some brown around the engine openings along with a touch of green for a hint of oxidization. I used a reddish brown on the inside of the engine bells to give them that used, flame-broiled look.

After that, I sprayed on some clear coat to seal the pastels onto the paint. This seemed to negate the effects of the gray pastels (as if I had never applied any gray at all) but left the reddish brown on the chrome inside paint alone. Hmmm. Any ideas what happened here? Is it a bad idea to clear coat after pastels have been applied?

Next I took a spare part and made a backing piece to go behind the star tracker holes in the nose. In this picture I am test-fitting to make sure the cockpit will still fit before gluing my newly-fabricated part in place.

And finally, I masked the windows with the Tamiya tape and glued them in place. I sure hope I'm able to remove it all after this thing gets painted! I was careful to only tape around the parts of the windows to be exposed, and left the outside edges uncovered.

Tomorrow I hope to finally start scratchbuilding the engine fuel lines! I have a feeling that will take all day.

[K2Pete]

After that, I sprayed on some clear coat to seal the pastels onto the paint. This seemed to negate the effects of the gray pastels (as if I had never applied any gray at all) but left the reddish brown on the chrome inside paint alone. Hmmm. Any ideas what happened here? Is it a bad idea to clear coat after pastels have been applied?

Uh huh ... yeah, don't spray on a clear coat because it'll do just that, negate all the effort you've put in on the pastel weathering. The pastel is pretty good at adhering to the surface, so don't worry too much about it being delicate, but don't go rubbing it to see, either. So now, just re-do the pastel, or ... wait till you're on the finishing touches toward the end of the build, to apply all the pastel weathering.

And for the SSME fuel lines, be sure you scrape off the paint where you're gonna glue the lines to the plastic, otherwise, they won't stick. And it'll only take you about an hour ...

You did a good job masking the putty at the wing root, now it'll just take a little sanding to smoothe it all out. ( Just fold a piece of 600 grit or so, sandpaper, to give you a nice edge and use that to sand the putty) The Nail polish remover is a great idea, but you hafta do it while the putty is still 'wet'.

Man Hotdog, you're learning just every technique there is!

Pete

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, I'm glad filling the seam between the wing and fuselage worked out. It looks very good and the SSME looks terrific.

I've used pastels and sprayed clear coat to seal them and they are still quite visible. Maybe it depends on the clear coat used. I use Testors Acryl Clear and it doesn't diminish the effect of the pastels at all.

Mike.

Edited July 1, 2012 by crowe-t

[Hotdog]

I used a Testors Clear Coat but not sure if its Acryl or not. I'll have to check. The weird part is the gray pastels were completely obliterated by the clear coating, and the brown pastels were fine. I'm not quite sure why or how this happened. The pastels were the same brand and everything. I wanted to weather the engine bells before I put the fuel lines on so that I wouldn't have to work around the new fuel lines. And I wanted the pastels to be set and not picking up on everything while I was doing the work of adding the engine fuel lines. Does this make sense?

[DutyCat]

Nice to see yet another person tackling a shuttle.

A few observations if I may:

The taping off of seams is a great, fairly recent idea. It really helps preserve detail during the putty application process.

You will get opinions all over the map on putties. Everyone seems to have their favorite. You mentioned using Testors putty. I haven't used that in years, but IIRC, it does not adhere well and chips easily. Personally, I have used Squadron Green for decades, and the past couple of years I have also used Squadron White. It adheres well and sands easily. However, Squadron shrinks a good amount, it is kind of soft (which is why it sands easily), and if you are not careful and gradually work your sandpaper down to a finer grit early, you will find that you have removed your putty from the very seam you were trying to fill. The quick answer is to reapply a thin, slurry paste mix of the putty(thinned with acetone) over the revealed seam, and lightly sand (VERY carefully with a worn medium grit, then to fine). You can get by with Squadron putties in this manner. Make sure you always sand wet.

I have tried various other "swear by" putties, such as 3M Acryl Blue, 3M acryl Green, and Tamiya White. Although they did not shrink much and each held an edge, they were too hard for my liking as they had to be sanded aggressively. Here recently I got a batch of Tamiya Basic (gray). I am very pleased with it. It is a bit harder than Squadron, but not as hard as the others I mentioned. It feathers very well, and it also seems to have some sort of metallic fiber embedded in it. It "glosses up" when it is fine sanded, similar to plastic. This makes it very easy to examine your work. It is good stuff.

Pastels and clear coats: That nice weathering job will often be "houdinied" by a flat overcoat. There is a "fixative" type spray that pastel artists use that supposedly will preserve your work, but I have not tried it yet on a model.

Good luck and keep us up on your progress.

Edited July 3, 2012 by DutyCat

[DutyCat]

N/T dupe.

Edited July 3, 2012 by DutyCat

[Jay Chladek]

Just grind up your pastel powder with fine grit sandpaper (320 grit minimum) and if the surface finish is nice and flat, it will bind with it just fine without the need for a clearcoat. I've done that for years with no problems.