rightwinger26 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I recently received my F4F-4 by Hobbyboss that I ordered from Squadon and the japanese flag kill markings on the box art, the instruction sheet and the decal sheet have been scribbled over with a sharpie, but everything was wrapped!? It doesn't really matter since I am going to use AM decals, but I just found it odd. Is it maybe since they come from Asia, sort of like most euro kits don't come with swasitkas? Has anyone had this happen. I'm just curious. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChippyWho Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 That is some way up the weird scale... Surely if there was some local embargo on certain images, such images would be deleted more 'officially' than with a marker? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mhoupt Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 There has been some extensive discussion on a couple of boards about this. There has been no explanation why, but there have been a couple of solutions offered. One is to take a dry erase marker, scribble over the top of the black out and then wipe off (this actually works for a lot of permanent marker mistakes). Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The Japanese take over and occupation of China was a long ways from friendly, and it doesn't surprise me that some would still harbor ill feelings to the symbol of that period, the Rising Sun. The Chinese were treated with extreme cruelty and brutality. Hal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwinger26 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) It is strange, here's the proof Does squadron sell per owned kits? I have a pretty good understanding about the occupation and all that, but if that was the answer, why print them in the first place? I'm just playing devils advocate here, it has me curious. I'm well aware of the dry erase technique, I've never tried it on decals, but at work we always get some ding dong that writes on a dry erase board with a sharpie, and dry erase takes it right off. Bill Edited July 2, 2012 by rightwinger26 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 It seems a bit odd. One would think that if it was there were lingering anti-Japanese sentiments they would be proud to show Japanese "kills" on an airplane. I've seen several kit makers who modified German kill marks, replacing Swastikas with generic crosses or Luftwaffe insignias, or just red rectangles with a white circle with the Swastikas provided separately..but this is the first I've ever heard of Japanese flags being censored. SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 From warehouse to you the kit passes through many hands. It only takes one to have a grudge and do that. I have to agree if it was official they'd just remove the image altogether and replace with something else. Did any Japanese holidays happen around the time it was intransit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwinger26 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Shoot, I don't know anything about Japanese holidays, were there any in the last two weeks, that about how long it took to get it :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flush Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have ordered some 1/32 Trumpeter WW2 Kits directly from China with the same result. I asked my shipper about that and he told me that China has some laws in place about Japanese flags going back to the end of WW2. He told me that the image was illegal in China. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwinger26 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Huh, great info Flush, I never knew that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have ordered some 1/32 Trumpeter WW2 Kits directly from China with the same result. I asked my shipper about that and he told me that China has some laws in place about Japanese flags going back to the end of WW2. He told me that the image was illegal in China. Nonsense laws as of these serve no place in a modern and supposed intelligent society. Denying things such as Japanese flags and German Swastikas do nothing to honour and placate the victims of these two former belligerent societies. “Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.†― George Santayana Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This one shows the markings intact: http://www.model-making.eu/products/F4F-4-Wildcat-1092837.html Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Litvyak Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hypothesis: The packaging and decal sheets are made with export in mind, and whatever's intended for sale on the domestic market gets the "questionable" content obliterated by marker. Based on the existence of kits that are unscribbled, and Flush mentioned he ordered from a distributor in China, which had the defacements, perhaps this isn't too far-fetched a thought... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChippyWho Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Nonsense laws as of these serve no place in a modern and supposed intelligent society. Denying things such as Japanese flags and German Swastikas do nothing to honour and placate the victims of these two former belligerent societies. “Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.†― George Santayana That is sooo true. The Swastika wasn't even a Nazi invention, they nicked it from Sanskrit. Censoring images gives their power back to the bad guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmk0210 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I asked my shipper about that and he told me that China has some laws in place about Japanese flags going back to the end of WW2. He told me that the image was illegal in China. I've ordered that kit direct from China and didn't get any markouts on the Japanese flags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 That is sooo true. The Swastika wasn't even a Nazi invention, they nicked it from Sanskrit. Censoring images gives their power back to the bad guys. True, Mature societies learn from their past. Utilize what they have learned for the betterment of their society and do not need silly and over the top political correctness practices in especially things like the banning for any reason, words, images, symbols etc. Silly laws as such are arrogantly and ignorantly done to placate and pander to those in society who have weak minds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aerofan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have ordered some 1/32 Trumpeter WW2 Kits directly from China with the same result. I asked my shipper about that and he told me that China has some laws in place about Japanese flags going back to the end of WW2. He told me that the image was illegal in China. I remember the German aircraft kits from European kit makers would cut out the swastikas for those staying in the European market but those destined for the US had them intact. Although China still has strong feelings about Japan's WW2 actions, they shouldn't censor the sheets for those being exported. Like Les said just silly immature polictical correctness, when will they rise above it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Litvyak Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 True, Mature societies learn from their past. Utilize what they have learned for the betterment of their society and do not need silly and over the top political correctness practices in especially things like the banning for any reason, words, images, symbols etc. Silly laws as such are arrogantly and ignorantly done to placate and pander to those in society who have weak minds. Jaroslav Hasek, who wrote "The Adventures of the Good Soldier Svejk in the World War", said it best: "The ones who make the most noise about what is and what is not proper, and who if they had their way would turn the world into a finishing school for young ladies of the upper class, are the ones who take the greatest pleasure in going to public washrooms to read the inscriptions on the walls". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) This conversation brings to mind this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166557/Half-GERMAN-schoolchildren-know-Third-Reich-dictatorship--East-Germany-Communist.html Half of GERMAN schoolchildren do not know Third Reich was a dictatorship - or that East Germany was Communist Most pupils unaware of past were from North Rhine Westphalia - the region worst affected by bombing outside Berlin Forty per cent are unsure whether current government is democratic By Rick Dewsbury PUBLISHED: 10:02 EST, 29 June 2012 | UPDATED: 10:02 EST, 29 June 2012 Edited July 4, 2012 by southwestforests Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CorsairMan Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dead thread for sure - but... Last night we opened up a 1/32 Trump F4U-4. The kill markings were blacked out on the box shots, the instructions and on the decal sheet itself! I've seen this kit a ton over the years and this is the first I've seen of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darius at home Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 This conversation brings to mind this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166557/Half-GERMAN-schoolchildren-know-Third-Reich-dictatorship--East-Germany-Communist.html Half of GERMAN schoolchildren do not know Third Reich was a dictatorship - or that East Germany was Communist Most pupils unaware of past were from North Rhine Westphalia - the region worst affected by bombing outside Berlin Forty per cent are unsure whether current government is democratic By Rick Dewsbury I would take any statistics printed in the Daily Mail with several pinches of salt ( and some lime and Tequila). They are not exactly renowned for being impartial especially on matters European or any other land populated by "foreigners". More often than not that newspaper panders to xenophobes. Darius Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) This thread is starting to become off-topic, but as a native German, I want to get this off: I am not surprised about the result of that study. If you ask german teenagers in any city what a communist is, you will at some point probably get an unsure "Somebody who communicates?" as an answer. After all, how can a dictatorship be called "German Democratic Republic"? That is sad but true. They even make jokes about his on the german TV: they ask kids some questions in the middle of the street. Okay - since it is TV, they probably picked the dumbest answers to be aired. It is the fault of our society and the educational system. We have three different educational systems: The lowest is only 5 years of high school. The smarter kids go to 6 years high school, with possibilities to get further educations. Finally, the last system is 6 years high school with 2 foreign languages and an additional 3 years, which qualifies for university straight from school. Edited September 27, 2013 by Lancer512 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnJay Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 It is the fault of our society and the educational system. We have three different educational systems: The lowest is only 5 years of high school. The smarter kids go to 6 years high school, with possibilities to get further educations. Finally, the last system is 6 years high school with 2 foreign languages and an additional 3 years, which qualifies for university straight from school. Beats the US system by a long shot, most high school graduates barely have command of their native tongue. With regard to the blacked out decals, I think that is BS. If I opened a kit and found them blacked out, I would ask for my money back due to defective decals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Nonsense laws as of these serve no place in a modern and supposed intelligent society. Denying things such as Japanese flags and German Swastikas do nothing to honour and placate the victims of these two former belligerent societies. “Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.†― George Santayana I can't comment on the situation regarding swastikas or Japanese Flags in China or Japan, but here in Germany, banning the swastika has NOTHING to do with forgetting or not not learning from our past. On the contrary, actually. Germans are (generally) very aware of their history. The ban of the swastika here in Germany is covered in §86a of our Criminal Code. Wikipedia has a translation to English of said article (LINK). The a subsection of the law states that a swastika can be used if it is "to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes." So, instead of this being a blanket ban on all swastikas (as the scale modelling community sometimes thinks it is), the law actually ensures that when it is used, it's to teach or inform. Personally, I think this covers all necessary exceptions. Yeah, scale modelling isn't covered by it. Tough luck. Some judge in the 1970s (I think) thought they had no place on toys, fearing children might come regard the swastika as just another symbol, no worse than, say, the stars'n'bars or the RAF roundel. And if you look at the texts on box sides or in the instructions, that ruling was a wise one. They may cover the technical background, but give hardly anything on the political background. They will say that the He 162 was designed to be built in underground facilities, but won't mention the tens of thousands of slave labourers who died digging these facilities. Or take model shows. Do they inform on history? Looking at model shows, you could get the impression that WWII was mostly spent repairing or refuelling your Tiger or sunbathing near your 109. You'll maybe see a few blown-up tanks, maybe even some injured soldiers, but never any dead soldiers. And certainly not models of mass shootings of civilians or even concentration camps. That would be poor taste. Of course, but isn't precisely that what the swastika stood for? How could it be possible to claim scale modelling informed on historical matters when they can't show the most brutal, the defining aspects of it? So, instead of informing on historical matters, scale modelling offers only a distorted view (at best) of history. <...> Like Les said just silly immature polictical correctness, when will they rise above it. What would be gained by lifting the ban? What other uses for a swastika are there beside teaching, information or art? Just one thing would happen: You'd have the neonazis marching around flying swastika flags. What signal would that send to the surviving victims of Nazi rule or those who would have been victims under Nazi rule? The Jews, the Sinti and Roma, the homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally disabled, the "asocials" (which in Nazi terms was a catch-all phrase including homeless people, beggars, families with lots of kids, alcoholics, sex workers, pacifists, the "workshy" and others), the communists and socialists and more. Especially after the ban has been in place for so long. What signal would that send to countries which suffered under the Nazis and which then suffered to rid not only themselves of the Nazis, but the Germans as well? If being "politically correct" means not alienating all these people, if it means giving the neonazi dimwits the finger because they'll have to cover their tattoos with band-aids or else risk being arrested, I'll gladly refrain from sticking little swastikas on my little plastic planes. Edited September 28, 2013 by ChernayaAkula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Litvyak Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Well, for my part I have an easy solution to the swastika question: if it wore one, I won't build it. No, I think the German handling of that issue is a good way of dealing with it, and yeah, I did notice that the WW2-era planes at the Luftwaffenmuseum all had swastikas on. But as far as the subject of the post goes... it is an interesting question, but I have a thought: perhaps the ones with the blacked out kill markings were meant for a market in which the Japanese flag would be... an issue? Like say if they did a Bf 109 kit with a decal sheet that included swastikas but blacked them out on some sheets for the packages intended to be sold in Germany? I can't see any other reasonable explanation, if most examples of the kit in question don't have blacked out markings but a smaller number do... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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