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What is that under the radome? I don't remember the "B" having the bump like the "D" and the boarding ladder is hangin in da wind.

Edited by #1 Greywolf
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Clif, there were 3 different "B bumps" for the front radome

the earliest looked was the same on the B and the C

the next looked like was used as the first shape on the D

and this one, used on B and N only

all three could be found later on F-4N, also, but, only 2 of the 3 Tail Caps were used on F-4N

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only 2 of the 3 Tail Caps were used on F-4N

Actually, while F-4N's with the forward ECM prong on the tail as per AN/APR-30 are a rare sight, a couple had them - there are a few such pics in Double Ugly's "US Navy Phantoms" book, even though DACO's excellent Naval Phantom book claims that this antenna was F-4B only.

Cheers,

Andre

Edited by Andre
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you're right, the first two 64 page Phantom booklets I pulled down at random only had 9 pics and 8 pics of F-4Ns with the "forward and aft" fin cap

of course, both of those were sorted by squadron and mostly were during the F-4B and F-4J eras,,,,as almost all Phantom books were, to be honest

both the F-4N and F-4S had relatively short service lives

and there are only 19 pics in the Double Ugly USN volume

so, there are only 36 pics of that fin cap on F-4N in those three books (and yes, I left out multiple views of the same aircraft)

Edited by Rex
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Sgt, I might take you up on that

I have been wanting to take an F-4N to a show that doesn't have the DECM on the shoulders,,,leaving the ladder down would just be icing, haha

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I'll pay anybody $1 if you'll build a model of an in-flight F-4 with the ladder deployed and then enter it in a contest.

:woot.gif:

F-4 retractable boarding ladders fell out in flight on occasion, it wasn't all that rare a thing to see. The catch would get worn, or maybe the spring for the release button would get weak. I've seen it numerous times, and used to have a photo I took myself of 64-0818 of the 149 TFG at Kelly AFB flying over me with the ladder extended. The slide wasn't the best and I think I tossed it out years ago, but now wish I'd kept it. I have a few photos from a Koku-Fan showing F-4s in flight with the boarding ladder extended in flight I'll post later.

Scott W.

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I have been wanting to take an F-4N to a show that doesn't have the DECM on the shoulders

AFAIK all F-4N's had the intake antenna - do you happen to have any pics of 'Ns without them?

Cheers,

Andre

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yes, there are multiples of those too

some of them were released as decals that were labeled as "wrong" by the internet posters

but, give a squint at VF-111 and VF-51 to start with on Pages 16 and 17, and 23 and 24 of Colors & Markings #22 Phantom Pacific

again, there are others, these are just the easiest pages to direct you to

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Clif, there were 3 different "B bumps" for the front radome

the earliest looked was the same on the B and the C

the next looked like was used as the first shape on the D

and this one, used on B and N only

all three could be found later on F-4N, also, but, only 2 of the 3 Tail Caps were used on F-4N

Thanx Rex, I've been outed :woot.gif: :D ....my love of Phantoms is too focused on the USAF versions; though I'll have to admit when I looked at USN variants I looked at the markings and didn't really look for the differences.

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yes, there are multiples of those too

some of them were released as decals that were labeled as "wrong" by the internet posters

but, give a squint at VF-111 and VF-51 to start with on Pages 16 and 17, and 23 and 24 of Colors & Markings #22 Phantom Pacific

again, there are others, these are just the easiest pages to direct you to

That must have been a very limited time frame. By 1977 you wouldn't be able to find an "N" without the ALQ-126 antennae, I never saw one. I also never saw an "N" with anything but a plain fairing under the radome (what we called the 'donkey dick') and I think maybe two or three aircraft in the squadron at any one time probably had the forward fairing on the vertical tail. It was empty, but the fairing was still there, call it about 20%?.

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well, when I typed up my "variations of the thin winged Phantom" table,,,,,,I got laughed at for leaving out "easy to find" variations,,,,,,so, I looked closer at the pictures I have

in the places I have typed in this thread,,,,,all three noses are on the F-4N, both late tail tips are on the F-4N,,,,,and the early batch of F-4N without the shoulder DECM are all pictured

here is a "one of each" list,,,,there are plenty of pics of each in print, though (once again I turned to my left and used the "first booklet to flop into my hand" search method)

Detail and Scale Colors & Markings Vol 22 USN Phantoms

Page 11 NK-200 VF-21 F-4N with earliest ("C style") nose and latest ("fore and aft bump") tail tip, with DECM on the shoulders

Page 15 NL-100 VF-51 F-4N with "C style" nose and middle ("forward only") tail tip, with NO DECM on the shoulders,,,,,clearly says F-4N above the BuNo,,,,there are 4 pictures spanning 3 pages of two different aircraft,,,includes the "NL-76" bicentennial bird that was released as a decal

page 24 has a photo of NM-213 F-4N without DECM

Double Ugly USN

page 41, 42, 43, 76, 77, 118 ,119, 135 have pics of the variations in combos said not to exist, and pics of the NO DECM birds (and yes, I have been told "that is during a repaint",,,,but, you can not "leave the N on there during a repaint",,,,leaving something behind would have been the letter B, not N)

page 119 AF-102is "forward only" tail tip, with the latest F-4B nose (the "parrot beak")

so, okay, that is a quick scan through of three books,,,,C&M Phantoms Pacific and Atlantic, and Double Ugly USN Phantoms,,,,,I hope I covered my statements with the pages cited, because I am done with the whole "you didn't see what you say you saw" game,,,,,,,,that is the reason the Phantom and Skyhawk "pieces from the boxes guides" came down off the net in the first place,,and the reason the Crusader page didn't get finished

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...Sorry if someone mentioned it, and I missed it...but, is the tailhook still safety-pinned with the RBF-tag flapping in the breeze, or do my eyes deceive me? Along with the extended boarding ladder, what happened at the final check before launch?

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...Sorry if someone mentioned it, and I missed it...but, is the tailhook still safety-pinned with the RBF-tag flapping in the breeze, or do my eyes deceive me? Along with the extended boarding ladder, what happened at the final check before launch?

Optical illusion, it's the leading edge of the stab you see.

The ladder most likely wasn't deployed at launch, it could have been due to the launch, or a G induced maneuver, or just a buffet with the worn out latch as described.

Curt

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Optical illusion, it's the leading edge of the stab you see.

The ladder most likely wasn't deployed at launch, it could have been due to the launch, or a G induced maneuver, or just a buffet with the worn out latch as described.

Curt

Ah, I see it now that I'm looking at the pic with a decent monitor instead of a small, dim, lo-rez laptop screen. Concur the ladder probably dropped down as you suggested - was trying to add 1 + 1 when my eyes were lying to me.. :) Guess that's why they call it 'photo interpretation'. Moving on...

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I'd like to build that A/C.

Now a moral dilemma...

If said friend has left a Steel Beech F-4B conversion at your house for over a year, and you know he only bought it as a review and will probably never build it.

1. Do you build it and do a review.

or

2. Let said friend know that he has forgotten the conversion and give it back so it will vanish into the depths of the mega kit black hole of a garage to never be seen again.

Curt

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I'd like to build that A/C.

Now a moral dilemma...

If said friend has left a Steel Beech F-4B conversion at your house for over a year, and you know he only bought it as a review and will probably never build it.

1. Do you build it and do a review.

or

2. Let said friend know that he has forgotten the conversion and give it back so it will vanish into the depths of the mega kit black hole of a garage to never be seen again.

Curt

I'd go for door #3: let said friend know that he has forgotten the conversion and ask if you can possibly keep and / or buy it.

Cheers,

Andre

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I'd like to build that A/C.

Now a moral dilemma...

If said friend has left a Steel Beech F-4B conversion at your house for over a year, and you know he only bought it as a review and will probably never build it.

1. Do you build it and do a review.

or

2. Let said friend know that he has forgotten the conversion and give it back so it will vanish into the depths of the mega kit black hole of a garage to never be seen again.

Curt

Ooh, I'd love to take credit for an F-4B conversion. Alas, it wasn't mine. All I have is a workable F-4S conversion. Was it Royale Resin's? I wish my stuff was half as good as Doug's. In answer to your question, I like door #3. Tell him he left, and see what he wants to do with it.

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