F-22 History

[11bee]

Found a pretty interesting history of the ATF competition (from Lockheed's perspective). I would have loved to hear about Northrup's side of the competition but alas, history seems to be written by the winners, not the losers.

Document is here:

http://www.afa.org/mitchell/reports/MP9_ATF_0612.pdf

[CF104]

................ I would have loved to hear about Northrup's side of the competition but alas, history seems to be written by the winners, not the losers.

Might be difficult as there was no Northrup in the competition but I do remember a company called Northrop competing in partnership with McDonnell Douglas with their YF-23.

Ciao,

John

[11bee]

Might be difficult as there was no Northrup in the competition but I do remember a company called Northrop competing in partnership with McDonnell Douglas with their YF-23.

Ciao,

John

What a constructive comment. Good feedback, thanks for adding to the thread.

[MattC]

What a constructive comment. Good feedback, thanks for adding to the thread.

Interesting article, I only had a quick scan, but it merits further reading, especially for someone like me with little knowledge of the F-22 other than a few basics. Ok, its slightly skewed shall we say, but from my point of view, having no understanding really of how these programmes work, its thoroughly interesting.

One thing I picked out was the apparent surprise that the USN went the F-18E/F route rather than pursuing a navalised Raptor. Is that sour grapes on the part of LM? Or a justified comment on the conservative nature of USN procurement? I'd tentatively suggest that the super hornet offered a more obvious solution, but I'm an ignoramus :)

Thanks for posting

Edited July 7, 2012 by MattC

[Berkut]

Yup, it is interesting read, has been reading on and off for about a week now.

One thing I picked out was the apparent surprise that the USN went the F-18E/F route rather than pursuing a navalised Raptor. Is that sour grapes on the part of LM? Or a justified comment on the conservative nature of USN procurement? I'd tentatively suggest that the super hornet offered a more obvious solution, but I'm an ignoramus :)

NATF was a big part of ATF requirement from the start, so indeed, it is understandable that LM was surprised it was dropped after all hard work designing two radically different planes, Navy and Airforce version of F-22.

One of the reasons why YF-23 lost was because of NATF requirement, Navy YF-23 was *extremely* different from vanilla Air Force version, sharing nothing whatsoever. But as well all know, NATF was dropped anyway short time after YF-22 won, so in hindsight it isn't an argument against YF-23.

[MattC]

I guess that this article;

Clicky

Is partially correct about "good enough is good enough", which is pretty much how we (uk) have always seemed to approach these things.

Navy YF-23 was *extremely* different from vanilla Air Force version, sharing nothing whatsoever

Is this the kiddy?

[Berkut]

Correct. Took "only" about 20 years to be shown in public... :)

[MattC]

Sheesh. 20 years.

It looks....nice, if somewhat draggy.

[fasteagle12]

Yup, it is interesting read, has been reading on and off for about a week now.

NATF was a big part of ATF requirement from the start, so indeed, it is understandable that LM was surprised it was dropped after all hard work designing two radically different planes, Navy and Airforce version of F-22.

One of the reasons why YF-23 lost was because of NATF requirement, Navy YF-23 was *extremely* different from vanilla Air Force version, sharing nothing whatsoever. But as well all know, NATF was dropped anyway short time after YF-22 won, so in hindsight it isn't an argument against YF-23.

I always thought that the Northrop YF-23 was a better looking plane. I read that, early on, the AF was touting stealth and speed as the No. 1 and 2 goals for which was 23 was designed and excelled in. Later, it seems that maneuverability became No. 1 and that gave the advantage to the 22. Along with the black eye of McAir's management(or mis-management) and problems of the A-12, the Boeing/Lockheed/GD team won out. I think the F-23 would have been a world beater too.