Mark S. Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Gents: Here's a subject that will appear on my next release due out before the end of July. I'll post the artwork for the instruction sheet early next week. Mark S. Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Boom!! Vic 210..nice work!! However, the demarcation line for the dk and lt ghost grey at the back end is wrong. The demarcation line curves down just a little fwd of the Navy logo and up just aft of the Navy logo and levels out just at the horizontal stab. Also, I'd double check the VFA-103 logo on the spine. All of 103's jets had italicized lettering. The placement of the side number on the nose is also too far fwd. the 2 should be placed just above the last part of the slime light. Edited July 6, 2012 by VFA-103guy Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Brian knows of what he speaks. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark S. Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 The photos of the jet that I have do NOT show obliqued lettering but standard block letters. I do however think that 201 from that period had obliqued lettering. More than likely their markings were in transition at that time. Will update the profile for the demarcation line. Always enjoy the help of a friendly competitor. Thanks! Mark S. Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) The photos of the jet that I have do NOT show obliqued lettering but standard block letters. I do however think that 201 from that period had obliqued lettering. More than likely their markings were in transition at that time. Will update the profile for the demarcation line. Always enjoy the help of a friendly competitor. Thanks! Mark S. Mark- Just checked my walk arounds of 210. Both side of the jet have italicized 103 logos. I don't think of it as competitors. When it comes to VF/VFA-103 jets regardless of who does the decals for them, the markings need to be done correctly. I just want to make sure you're getting the correct information. Edited July 6, 2012 by VFA-103guy Link to post Share on other sites
Mark S. Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Brian: Mine photos do not show obliqued lettering. Since the are copyright protected I won't post them but you are welcomed to contact me at the phone number on my website. If I'm not in just have one of the girls contact me and I'll return your call if you leave a number. As I mentined you are a friendly competitor. Regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Brian: Mine photos do not show obliqued lettering. Regards, Mark Mark- I can assure you they are, slightly but they are. I was there at the 2007 fly in, and several of the air crew had sent me pics during the cruise as well. Fightertown had released decals of 210 on their first 103 Rhino sheet, and we went over my refs several times to ensure accruacy of the sheet. Not to mention the CC shop was very helpful in helping interprit things we had questions on. I wouldn't steer you wrong buddy. Here are my 2 shots of 210's spine from the 07 fly in. Here are the back end shots showing the demarcation lines near the navy logos. Edited July 6, 2012 by VFA-103guy Link to post Share on other sites
Mark S. Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I worked from those photos and when you import them into engineering software and account for the slightly curved surface and the parallax error the angles especially evident on 0 read 90 degrees. It's an easy mistake to make. The only item in question was the VFA-103 artwork as you stated. I agree with the others and they are so drawn. If you are in Ohio stop by my office and I'll show you how to account for the errors. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) I worked from those photos and when you import them into engineering software and account for the slightly curved surface and the parallax error the angles especially evident on 0 read 90 degrees. It's an easy mistake to make. The only item in question was the VFA-103 artwork as you stated. I agree with the others and they are so drawn. If you are in Ohio stop by my office and I'll show you how to account for the errors. Mark You can run those through all the software you want. The logos are italicized. If you want to press a further argument, please feel free to contact VFA-103's corrosion control shop and tell them how wrong they are. That's where I got the information from. Edited July 6, 2012 by VFA-103guy Link to post Share on other sites
Mike5401 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 VFA-103 on the spines for that jet and others were slanted aft. No need to use "software", just use your eyes and you'll see it. Brian knows what he's talking about and trust his judgement. He's just trying to help you out and get it right. I've seen enough of VF/A-103 to know slanted from un-slanted! :) HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Let me interject an outside opinion. If you look at the pictures of the spine, you'll a small panel just in front of the VFA-103. There is a faint panel line that runs on top and bottom of that small, wierd shaped panel. If you look carefully, you'll see the "3" pulling away from the panel line. If they were straight up block lettering, than the 3 would stay parallel with that panel line. On the other side, the V is actually parallel with the panel line. If it were block lettering, the top of the V would be closer to the panel line than the bottom of the V. It sure does look like the lettering is slightly obliqued (I love that word!). Edited July 6, 2012 by Darren Roberts Link to post Share on other sites
Mike5401 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Let me interject an outside opinion. If you look at the pictures of the spine, you'll a small panel just in front of the VFA-103. There is a faint panel line that runs on top and bottom of that small, wierd shaped panel. If you look carefully, you'll see the "3" pulling away from the panel line. If they were straight up block lettering, than the 3 would stay parallel with that panel line. On the other side, the V is actually parallel with the panel line. If it were block lettering, the top of the V would be closer to the panel line than the bottom of the V. It sure does look like the lettering is slightly obliqued (I love that word!). Exactly! Link to post Share on other sites
Gator52 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You can run those through all the software you want. The logos are italicized. If you want to press a further argument, please feel free to contact VFA-103's corrosion control shop and tell them how wrong they are. That's where I got the information from. Current discussion aside, were you in -103? You seem to have lots of contacts, just wondering. Jonah Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Brian has contacts with 103 that the rest of us can only dream of. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I appreciate the attention to detail and am always impressed by the quest for 100% accuracy, but as a consumer I can tell you that either way that subtle difference would not affect my decision to buy these or similar decals. Just another outside opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
MHaz Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Nothing to see here, move along Edited July 9, 2012 by MHaz Link to post Share on other sites
Spook498 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Im throwing in my pennies... That "odd shaped cover" is a hoist attachment point. The trailing edge of the cover on both sides, is almost verticle, while the forward edges are rounded. Here is a shot of VFA -14, that is a little more side on than the pics posted by Marbrey. You can also orientate that hoist point cover with a panel line running vertically down from the turtle back to the top of the LEX. I realize that its not VFA 103, but VFA 14 gave their letters a slant to aft as well. Just sayin'.... Edited July 7, 2012 by Spook498 Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I just ran the images through a Cray Super Computer and it told me they are indeed italicized ... Mark One Eyeball came to the same conclusion ... Kids, If Oompa and the other Fine Folks say they're slanted, you can bet top money they're slanted ... -Gregg Edited July 7, 2012 by GreyGhost Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Brian Marbrey's knowledge of VFA-103 goes without saying, if he says it concerning "Dem Bones" folks it is. He probably knows what they're gonna do before they do. Link to post Share on other sites
CW4 Erick Swanberg Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Someone didnt do there homework Link to post Share on other sites
Mark S. Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Gents: I did my homework and the engineering analaysis supports it. Being a professional I won't get into a pissing match over this but I will say that unless Brian can provide a certified drawing from VFA-103 then I won't be swayed. Mark S. Link to post Share on other sites
CW4 Erick Swanberg Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So you are saying that an actual photograph of the VFA-103 jet is not good enough to see the difference and you want a drawing? Really dude?? Why is it then that all the other manufacturers that have done VFA-103 decals are slanted and yours are not? Who is wrong then..... Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre Freak Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) ... Edited July 9, 2012 by Sabre Freak Link to post Share on other sites
MHaz Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Gents: I did my homework and the engineering analaysis supports it. Being a professional I won't get into a pissing match over this but I will say that unless Brian can provide a certified drawing from VFA-103 then I won't be swayed. Mark S. Edited after further reflection... Edited July 9, 2012 by MHaz Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Gents: I did my homework and the engineering analaysis supports it. Being a professional I won't get into a pissing match over this but I will say that unless Brian can provide a certified drawing from VFA-103 then I won't be swayed. Mark S. From one aftermarket manufacturer to another, I think you might want to reconsider. You have people with first-hand knowledge and photographic evidence to support that knowledge. It might be wise to use that information. To be honest, it will be hard to notice in 1/72 scale. However, as an aftermarket producer, especially in decals, the last thing you want to get is a negative reputation. If modelers find out that you had knowledgable people helping you and you didn't listen to them, they will not be as forgiving towards a mistake in the decal sheet. Granted, most of the people buying your sheet won't know. But some will, and sometimes that's all it takes for negative feedback to start to spread. I say this with all due respect to you, because you have a great product and business, and I don't want to see anything negative occur. Trust what the people have stated on this thread and what the photographic evidence supports. The VFA-103 is slanted. Link to post Share on other sites
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