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Why all the fuss over this? Just build the model (accurate or not) and have fun.

ahh...but you see this isn't really an argument (discussion) over the merits of accuracy. It would be different if they would have pointed out the inaccuracy (perceived or not) of the decal and he would have said something like "Well I'll be, you're right I missed that. Oh well, it's in production so I'll just have to let that little issue slide by and hope the customers don't mind that minor infraction. Thanks for the input". Then you could say this was a fuss about accurate or not accurate and "just build it" and all that. No, this was a matter of two (now more) people both stating they are right about accuracy with two opposing views. One can only be right. So the "it doesn't matter" side of the argument is irrelevant in this case because clearly they both are saying accuracy DOES matter. I mean, the OP said he used engineering software on the image to verify it's accuracy. That doesn't sound like someone that's not concerned about the product being right does it?

For the record, I say it's oblique. Sorry man, it's a great looking scheme and I'm sure the sheets are nice, but I have to go with what my eyes tell me.

Bill

Edited by niart17
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there isn't even a model in this thread to be "goodnuffed"

all of the people that have read the entire thread know that

one of things this thread does say to modelers though,,,,,,to a great many modelers that read and/or post on the internet,,,,,,accuracy does still matter

just look at the number of views this thread has,,,,,,,I sort of hope that at least some of those reading the thread actually care about its content

so, to answer the perennial "who cares?" that seems to get posted constantly on model discussion boards,,,,,,,obviously, a lot of people still do

best of luck to Mark on the new sheet, and the following sheets,,,,,,,,,and best of luck to the other decal producers that pitched in with their information

side note

Mark,,,,if you get some Napalm soon,,,I will try again to do a combo decal and resin order

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Gents:

I'm amused by this all. As my customers know, I, when needed have corrections printed and send them out to those who purchase my sheets. The correction will be sent to the printer after it has been checked. As a rule I don't comment on the mistakes of my competitors on any forum although I do privately contact them and try to help. Wish someone would have helped me in that manner. Some may perceive such remarks on a forum as a means to denegrate an individual or gain a competitive advantage. That is why I don't make those comments.

If you work the numbers the difference in that one marking will be barely visible but as I mentioned it will be corrected.

People take their modeling seriously and I recognize that but at the end of the day being recognized as a professional person and gentleman is more important to me than seeking rewards or dominance. We past by this way only once and when I'm gone I want people to remember me as a gentleman.

Regards,

Mark S.

Wolfpak Decals

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Gents:

I'm amused by this all. As my customers know, I, when needed have corrections printed and send them out to those who purchase my sheets. The correction will be sent to the printer after it has been checked. As a rule I don't comment on the mistakes of my competitors on any forum although I do privately contact them and try to help. Wish someone would have helped me in that manner.

Regards,

Mark S.

Wolfpak Decals

Ummm, that was done already, in the second post no less....

Boom!! Vic 210..nice work!!

However, the demarcation line for the dk and lt ghost grey at the back end is wrong.

The demarcation line curves down just a little fwd of the Navy logo and up just aft of the Navy logo and levels out just at the horizontal stab.

Also, I'd double check the VFA-103 logo on the spine. All of 103's jets had italicized lettering.

The placement of the side number on the nose is also too far fwd. the 2 should be placed just above the last part of the slime light.

Your response?....

The photos of the jet that I have do NOT show obliqued lettering but standard block letters. I do however think that 201 from that period had obliqued lettering. More than likely their markings were in transition at that time. Will update the profile for the demarcation line.

Always enjoy the help of a friendly competitor.

Thanks!

Mark S.

Basically, you said that Brian was wrong about the lettering.

Then we have another attempt by Brian to prove that your lettering is, indeed, incorrect with pics of the real deal....

Mark-

I can assure you they are, slightly but they are. I was there at the 2007 fly in, and several of the air crew had sent me pics during the cruise as well. Fightertown had released decals of 210 on their first 103 Rhino sheet, and we went over my refs several times to ensure accruacy of the sheet. Not to mention the CC shop was very helpful in helping interprit things we had questions on.

I wouldn't steer you wrong buddy.

Here are my 2 shots of 210's spine from the 07 fly in.

PIC

Here are the back end shots showing the demarcation lines near the navy logos.

2 PICs

Your response? You tell him that "engineering software" made you do it, so it must be right......

I worked from those photos and when you import them into engineering software and account for the slightly curved surface and the parallax error the angles especially evident on 0 read 90 degrees. It's an easy mistake to make. The only item in question was the VFA-103 artwork as you stated. I agree with the others and they are so drawn. If you are in Ohio stop by my office and I'll show you how to account for the errors.

Mark

Gents:

I did my homework and the engineering analaysis supports it. Being a professional I won't get into a pissing match over this but I will say that unless Brian can provide a certified drawing from VFA-103 then I won't be swayed.

Mark S.

So then the "other Brian" puts his two cents in, which I think was pretty civil and professional considering your attitude about the lettering thus far....

Glad to see new stuff in 1/72. I have to agree with what everyone else posted here... Those VFA-103 titles are slanted. If you don't want to listen to a group of generous, friendly and willing people on here then that's your business but don't be surprised when you're sheet comes out and people question the accuracy. You may have superior computers and skills but you may be overworking this problem.

As for doing your 'homework' and not being swayed, well... If you want to do your homework, call VFA-103 CC shop and in a 30 second conversation you'll get the following info: VFA- portion is in Amarillo font with modified corners. 103 is modified Long Beach Navy. Modex is LBN also with modified corners. Both are slanted aft as the NAVAIR painting instructions indicate. For 103, both are at a 7.5 degree slant.

I'd be happy to send you our placement guide instruction sheet for this jet if you would like to help use that as a reference for placement.

Anything else I can do to help, don't hesitate to ask. I'm happy to help. Looking forward to seeing what else is on the sheet!

thanks,

brian

And now you "Wish someone would have helped me in that manner"??? Ummmm they did, in the second post no less and you told him he was wrong.

It would also appear that you now agree that the lettering was wrong and now it has been corrected?

The correction will be sent to the printer after it has been checked.

Regards,

Mark S.

Wolfpak Decals

If so, how have you thanked those who tried to help you create a better product for your customers? You sure haven't here. If you just admitted your mistake in the first place, this would have been a very short thread.

Edited by chuck540z3
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I'm still very curious about the software you are using and how it works.

I've seen programs like photoshop and similar but they aren't capable of "accounting for the slightly curved surface and the parallax error" are they?

Do you have some other software that somehow maps the markings on a 3D surface? In which case you would need an accurate 3D model of the airplane to work with.

I'm intrigued.

Please tell us about the software.

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do you read much, Chuck

that is the second time in this one thread that you have "accidentally" skipped a line in order to go off onto your tirade

his post had a word in it,,,,,,,,"privately",,,,,you even quoted it in your quote box,,,,,,if you add that word back in,,,,that changes the meaning a bit

I think I know what you believe you are doing "to help",,,,,,but, they have already talked on the phone, and worked it out, and Mark already said there would be a correction sheet added in

not much more than that could be done, once the correction was done publicly instead of privately

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do you read much, Chuck

that is the second time in this one thread that you have "accidentally" skipped a line in order to go off onto your tirade

his post had a word in it,,,,,,,,"privately",,,,,you even quoted it in your quote box,,,,,,if you add that word back in,,,,that changes the meaning a bit

I think I know what you believe you are doing "to help",,,,,,but, they have already talked on the phone, and worked it out, and Mark already said there would be a correction sheet added in

not much more than that could be done, once the correction was done publicly instead of privately

Meanwhile, most here are not privy to these private conversations, so the public record does not show that he admits he was wrong about the lettering and I sure don't see an apology. THAT, my friend, is the issue. If he is going to publicly tell people in this forum that his engineering software is more intelligent than our eyes, he should clarify his stance here. He sure hasn't PM'd or phoned me or a few of the other guys who called him on it.

BTW, The skipped lines were to focus on the slanted lettering and nothing more- like demarcation lines, etc. The post is long enough as it is.

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you just can't be missing this by accident

he states, and you quote him,,,,,,,that he gives those corrections in private

so, you see,,,,,,,if they "were done in the same way",,,,,,,,there wouldn't have been a 2nd post,,,,,or any of those following posts,,,,,your's included

the 2nd post would have been something different,,,,,and at the first mention of the error in this thread,,,,he would have been able to say that he "already was made aware of it, and will include a correction sheet"

and you ARE privy to the exact same messages I read on here,,,,,everything I said is right there for you to read, just as I did

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shrug,,,okay then

I have rethought this

you ARE missing that part by accident

but, a lot of your "peers" did see it,,,,,,and comprehend it

you win

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shrug,,,okay then

I have rethought this

you ARE missing that part by accident

but, a lot of your "peers" did see it,,,,,,and comprehend it

you win

Let's take this off line and see what the heck I might be missing. What we've got here is a failure to communicate! PM forthcoming.

Edited by chuck540z3
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Gents:

I know I have moved on. Next on my agenda is having lunch with a friend next week. He's in a position to open a few doors for me so stay tuned you might be seeing a few great subjects later this year.

Mark

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