bdt13 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm building a F-51D in the Ohio ANG markings TwoBobs created for the 2009 IPMS USA Nationals. To be specific, this is P-51D-30-NA 44-74589 of the 112th FBS, based at Akron-Canton Airport. I have been looking through the ARC forums and the Internet but I can't seem to find conclusive or consistent answers on some questions about USAF Mustangs in the 1953 timeframe: 1. What color is the cockpit? I see many references to black. If so, does this include the seat and floor as well? 2. If the cockpit was repainted black, would the fuel tank area behind the cockpit also be black, or remain interior green? 3. What prop would have been used? The instructions illustrate a cuffed prop, which I take to be a Hamilton-Standard, but I don't know if this is to indicate which prop was used, or if it is an artifact of so many P/F-51 illustrations using the original prop. I'm using the 1/48 Hasegawa kit, so it would be nice if this a/c used either of the included props (HS cuffed or Aeroproducts). Sorry if any of this seems ignorant; I'm mainly a jet guy but I like to do something different now and then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The answer to all of your questions is, "it depends". What's the time frame? Without a photo it's impossible to say which prop would have been used. If the airplane hadn't been through major depot maintenance since new, it would still have had a green cockpit. Many late P-51s went from the factory into storage, so when the early post war ANG units got them they were as-produced. After IRAN depot overhaul later, cockpits may have been painted and props swapped out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xmh53wrench Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Sorry if any of this seems ignorant; I'm mainly a jet guy but I like to do something different now and then. IMHO there are no ignorant/stupid questions regarding WW2 aircraft especially out beloved P-51 Mustang. The fact of the matter is, unless you have photographic evidence of something, or VALID/ORIGINAL documentation, the folks that TRULY know the answers to our questions are becoming few and far between, and I would say dont frequent our cyber-workshops. I am going nuts trying to find info/drawings/documentation/photographs regarding Mustangs. There is so much out there, and yet alot of it is pure luck when you happen to come across it, and then there is the info that contradicts other info. I am finding that unless you actually are involved with the maintenance/restoration (which I am not) of an actual P-51 much of the specifics are accessible by a select few. What we (or at least I) have been left to do is weed out things logically, and make use of what I am able to find. I am not here to discourage, but the exact opposite. Be diligent in your research, but dont let it overtake the actual goal of building your model. Trust me I know, with my current build, I am at that point. I am not one of those modelers that add electrical wiring and flight control cables, but am willing to add some detail to my models...but I have found myself researching for days items to add or detail, that will end up not even being seen in the finished build, so I pinch myself and actually PROGRESS in my build. Sorry I have no constructive answers to your post, actually you maybe even trying to research an even foggier period in the Mustang history. But with all that said, there ARE SOME VERY VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE FOLKS ON MODELING SITES!!!!! I hope they can help you out. Happy modeling, and good luck with your build Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P-38 guy Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The 112th replaced their H model Mustangs with D models in early 1954. They came from a guard unit out of Minneapolis. The pictures I have seen they had uncuffed propellers. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 At that very late date, prob uncuffed props and black cockpits... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P-38 guy Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I figured they would be black by then. They talked about them being worn out when they got them. They got ride of the H's because of parts supply problems. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Go to the web page for MAPS Air Museum and contact one of the curators they may have answers for you. Their museum is in one of the old hangars used by the ang at that time. Amazingly theres really not an exhibit talking about the 51s at akc but they were there and there's probably a guy there who would know. I'd link it but I'm on my phone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 As Jennings mentioned, without a picture you have to speculate a bit. As all P-51D-30-NA's, 44-74589 was built with the cuffless square tipped Hamilton Standard propeller. There's a 99% chance that's the one that remained throughout the aircraft's life. In 1950 the USAF decided to paint their cockpits in black, I don't think the ANG did the same but I can not be 100% sure on this one. In order to know if 44-74589 ever had a black cockpit, you need to find out were she was in 1950. Someone mentioned the plane flew in the Minnesota ANG, if true chances are the cockpit remained Interior Green. Hard to know for sure. In any case, when the cockpit was painted black, it was a quick job, take the various controls boxes off the wall, spray some black and put the boxes back on. The rear cockpit often remained IG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdt13 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Thank you all for the prompt advice! Just a few details to clear up: 1. Would the seat and floor have been painted black as well? 2. Where do I get an uncuffed, squared-tipped, Hamilton Standard prop in 1/48th? Thanks again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 For the seat it's up to you, when the cockpit was painted black the seat could go either way. Ultracast makes a nice propeller: http://www.ultracast.ca/products/48/137/default.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prop Duster Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 you might give the P-51 SIG a shout, they know a thing or two about Mustangs; and are willing to share. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdt13 Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks again for the advice. I'm going to go with the cockpit and seat black. The fuel tank will be interior green. I looked at the kit again (a Hasegawa P-51K boxing) , deep in the box there were four loose prop blades. Looking closer I realize they are uncuffed, square-tipped H-S blades (I'll call these STHS for short), which is what I need! I have another boxing of the Hasegawa kit as a WWII P-51D. I checked in there and it has the cuffed H-S blades and the tapered Aeroproducts ones, firmly on the sprues. That tends to discount Hasegawa as the source of my STHS blades. Don't know where the SHTS props in my K boxing came from, but I'll make them work. Interestingly enough, the K-model blades were gone from the K-model box, along with the gunsight and the bazooka-style rocket launchers. To add more to the story, I had only bought this K-model kit to get a D-model canopy to go with the D-model kit I bought, which was missing ONLY the D canopy, but still had the blown K-model canopy on the sprue. I'm taking two second hand kits that have been picked over for spares and will hopefully get one D and one K out of them. So, if you have a spare 1/48 P-51 gunsight, please PM me. That seems to be the only thing I don't have enough of to get two models from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xmh53wrench Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 tourist, correct me if I am wrong, but were not the fuselage tanks just a rubber bladder, so likely were always blackish/rubberish color? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 you might give the P-51 SIG a shout, they know a thing or two about Mustangs; and are willing to share. Tourist is one of the pillars of the SIG, so we've got our own expert right here in residence. He's taught me more about the Mustang in the past few months than I ever fathomed I'd learn. And he's a nice guy to boot! :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Louie, yes you're right, the fuselage fuel cell was rubber so it would be black, brown, grey, whateverish rubber is. And he's a nice guy to boot! :) Deep down I'm a bastard but I like people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdt13 Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'll paint the fuel cell a dirty black, probably the same as the cockpit. I may put this build on line in the appropriate forum. We'll see if I have the energy, most of my builds have been on line lately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdt13 Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 In-progress thread here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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