1/32 F-4G Wild Weasel

[ghatherly]

Hi, I managed to start this Build about a month ago. What I am building is a Revell 1/32 F-4E kit given to me by Chuck. I am going to correct the errors that I know of in the kit, and with the help of some after market products try to build an F-4G Wild Weasel. Here is what is going into the project so far:

Revell 1/32 F-4G kit

Flight Path E conversion kit consisting of PE wheel wells, metal landing gear, PE Exhaust, and other PE details.

Tamiya F-4E nose section, Intakes, tail cone, Instrument panels and coaming, Seats,

Eduard: F-4E interior, C/D exterior, Placards, Seats, Revell F-4F exterior

CE: Use misc. F-4G parts.

Major Kit corrections: Shorten Fuselage 7mm, Fix cockpit tub with new floors and correct layout, Correct canopies and cockpit rails, narrow Rear fuselage tail section, Fit Tamiya intakes and Nose, Add engine bay details and open bay doors. These in addition to all the other that are commonly know about the kit. A lot of scratch build to be done too!

I will be building it with the nose open to show the Radar.

Here are a few Pictures so far:

Revell kit tail cone on left, Correct width tail cone is on the right. It is a Tamiya part IT is really nice that Tamiya got their F-4 kit right outside of the fuselage armor plating. This picture shows the magnitude of the Revell error.

Thanks for looking. Gary

[chuck540z3]

Hey Gary, glad to see that the Revell kit can actually look like a Phantom in the right hands! MAN that looks like a lot of work. Keep it up!

Edited July 11, 2012 by chuck540z3

[ghatherly]

Hi Chuck, Looks like we both have a lot of work ahead of us. This one has been very enjoyable so far. I really enjoy this part of modeling, I just wish I were better with my care of workmanship. As you can see I tend to get sloppy with the scribing and have more repairs to make than I care to have. The worst part is I don't see it until I add color, and then until I prime the part it still shows up. I am seriously debating the issue of ripping the RF-4C apart and fixing the fuselage. I have an extra wing, and the two things I am unhappy with are the LE/TE flaps and the Fuselage length. What do you think??

One thing I did here was use 4mm x 8mm spine running the length of the fuselage connecting the repair halves and the forward section. I was then able to fit the nose section and essentially complete the entire length. I still have the forward bottom open to install the cockpit once it is finished. Here is a few more pictures:

[jmel]

Outstanding! An accurate F-4E/G front instrument panel!!!! where did you find that? It amazes me how many aftermarket companies have missed that.

Jake

[chuck540z3]

Hi Chuck, Looks like we both have a lot of work ahead of us. This one has been very enjoyable so far. I really enjoy this part of modeling, I just wish I were better with my care of workmanship. As you can see I tend to get sloppy with the scribing and have more repairs to make than I care to have. The worst part is I don't see it until I add color, and then until I prime the part it still shows up. I am seriously debating the issue of ripping the RF-4C apart and fixing the fuselage. I have an extra wing, and the two things I am unhappy with are the LE/TE flaps and the Fuselage length. What do you think??

Well, to be honest, any model is a composite of building skill, integration of after-market stuff, scratch building, painting, weathering and accurate portrayal of the whole package. I think your sometimes rough workmanship is exceeded by your fearless approach to modify a very, very difficult kit to make it look right. Why do you think I gave it to you! Sure, some of your panel lines don't match up, but you've got that baby riveted really nicely and as Jake already mentioned, you've got some really cool and accurate changes to make this F-4G an F-4G.

Getting back to some of the rough spots, try applying CA glue with a toothpick (or similar object) along some of the mismatched panel lines and other boo-boos, then use CA glue accelerator and get sanding right away with 600 # sandpaper. You'll be amazed at how easily fresh CA glue sands smoothly without much effort as long as it's done within an hour or so. When you've fixed the small errors, you can re-scribe the panel line and rivets right away as well without fear of the filler cracking, which you can't do with putty. Follow this by another light sanding of 1000 # sandpaper and you're done- all in 10-15 minutes!

Good luck sir!

[ghatherly]

Jake, Thanks for the encouragement. The panel is actually from a CE F-4E conversion kit. I installed it temp to set the coaming height and the front cockpit floor height, and as you can see the right sub panel is missing. I still have to get the right side panels, but I do have the complete CE rear panels so I am good to go there. Your book has been very helpful, but I may need your help with the side panels when I get to the cockpit.

Chuck, Thanks for the help, I will give it a try. One thing I have been battling with is what scriber to use for what, and which ones I like to use and which ones I don't. It has been a real trial and error effort. I have tried the Tamiya, the Hasegawa, Mr.Hobby, Trumpeter, and many Needle/pin scribers. I have also tried the Hasegawa PE saws and the CMP saw. I like the trumpeter and the saws the best, and use the pin for panels. I also have a ton of templates that I have picked up. I picked up the RV RESIN detail scale aircraft book which is quite good, especially with the rivet details.

Thanks you both for the help.

Gary

[geedubelyer]

Hi Gary,

Just caught this thread. That is some seriously patient work with all of those rivets and re-scribed panel lines.

Neat work.

With Jake M and Chuck aboard, you can't go far wrong. ;)

[ghatherly]

Hi Gary,

Just caught this thread. That is some seriously patient work with all of those rivets and re-scribed panel lines.

Neat work.

With Jake M and Chuck aboard, you can't go far wrong. ;)

Hi, Thanks for the kind words. I am blown away with the support from you, Chuck, Jake, and others here and on my other build. I am just glad that we live in a world where we can see each others work, and exchange ideas so easily. I got back into modeling last year while recovering from a bad accident from three years ago. I am officially retired now, and I found that the internet was critical in my recovering faster than expected and coping with my disability. My wife motivated me to get back into modeling, and with the wealth of information provided by builder around the world at my fingertips, it has made building really enjoyable. I have read your F-14 build through 4 times and other sections even more, and I am just amazed not only with the workmanship, but with your patience with what, 3 years in progress? Amazing!!!

[Scott R Wilson]

I will be building it with the nose open to show the Radar.

Thanks for looking. Gary

Amazing work so far. I have some photos of the radar package extended that Ben Brown loaned to me a long time ago for scanning. Those in addition to Jake's book ought to help you. The radome was opened by opening the little covers at the 10, 2, 4 and 8 o'clock positions and removing a bolt inside. Then the oval shaped panel on the right side of the nose was opened to expose the hinge. The radome was swung open and a long rod that was stowed inside the nose was extended by using a flat-blade screwdriver and turning it 90 degrees to release it from its catch. Then the rod was attached to a catch built into the side of the radome to prop it open.

Here's one of Ben's photos showing the closed radome, note the radome bolt covers and hinge cover are open, the jury strut has been released and is hanging. The little black dot in the side of the radome is the catch for the end of the jury strut:

The radar package was extended for maintenance by inserting a aluminum bar called an "extender bar" into a square hole at the top of the radar. The extender bar locked in place. Then we disconnected the hydraulic lines and APX antenna cables from the radar antenna, removed four bolts at the 12, 6, 3 and 9 o'clock positions that held the package in to the nose section, then we pulled the package out of the nose. Here's a DoD shot of a couple of guys putting the extender bar in place:

Here's one of Ben's photos showing the extender bar in place:

And here are more of Ben's photos showing the radar package slid out on the extender bar:

Note the radar dish was hydraulically driven. The angle in the above photos was how it normally was without hydraulic pressure. It could be pinned straight level and facing the front for maintenance, which is how it's displayed on most models.

Here's a nice shot from Ben showing the radar dish, APX dipole antennas, and the feedhorn. Note the dish was painted dark blue. Pactra Royal Blue years ago was a perfect match. I have no idea if the same shade is available now. I guess Insignia Blue might be a match:

Edited July 13, 2012 by Scott R Wilson

[Scott R Wilson]

And finally a nice shot, courtesy of Ben Brown, of the radome interior. The semi-circular thingy at the top rear was the glideslope antenna. The pitot and static lines run to the tip along the top of the radome, and the pitot heat wiring is in the conduit along the right side. The dark concentric rings you see from front to back were called "APX rings" and were actually thin bare copper wires glued to the interior of the radome. Supposedly those rings helped with the antenna signal pattern from the dipoles for the APX-76 and APX-81 air-to-air IFF. APX-76 interrogated allied aircraft IFF systems, APX-81 interrogated Soviet and Warsaw Pact aircraft IFF. Both systems shared the dipoles:

Edited July 13, 2012 by Scott R Wilson

[j-basset]

Gary,

This is a great reference which I'll follow with interest as I've a few of the Revell F-4E/F in the stash.

I have a question about the position of the front cockpit instrument panel coaming/hood in your photo, though:

Doesn't the coaming/hood look like it has been positioned too far forward? Shouldn't it originate at about the same point as the windscreen bow frame?

Regards

[ghatherly]

Scott, you are the Man!! These are exactly what I was looking for. The Radar and the nose cone look like models unto themselves with all the details shown in your pictures. I have some questions: Is the extension bar Square in shape? Since this is a G model, I have only been able to find one ref. pic that shows the nose open. In that picture it looks like the 135 housing swings with the nose cone and is blanked off with a metal panel. DO you know if this is correct? And if it is, is the aircraft side just a metal panel as well?

J Basset, Thanks for the input. I will have to check and see. In the photo it is at a bit of an angle, but you ask a very good question and I will find out. Thanks for the heads up. One of the big issues with the Revell kit is the canopies, specifically the way they are sectioned. That is why you see I have added tot he windscreen and the mid section, and shortened up the rear canopy. I need to extend the front canopy about 2mm, but I wan to see how it all fits with the PE details added. I have tired several ways to correct the front canopy as it is to short, but I am not happy with how any of my trials have looked. I may have to resort to casting one in Resin, which opens a whole new adventure in clear resin casting.....Oh Joy!!!!!!

Chuck, I am using your procedure using the CA glue, setting it then sanding right away. Working very well. Spent tonight fixing all bad lines, attached the intakes, and got everything fitting well. Hope to scribe/rivet these areas tomorrow, and I will get you some pictures.

[Scott R Wilson]

Scott, you are the Man!! These are exactly what I was looking for. The Radar and the nose cone look like models unto themselves with all the details shown in your pictures. I have some questions: Is the extension bar Square in shape? Since this is a G model, I have only been able to find one ref. pic that shows the nose open. In that picture it looks like the 135 housing swings with the nose cone and is blanked off with a metal panel. DO you know if this is correct? And if it is, is the aircraft side just a metal panel as well?

Sorry, I can't help you. I never worked on F-4Gs, and it was just too long ago to remember what it looked like on the few I saw opened up at George AFB when I was there (1982-1983). I went through all my photos, Airliners.net, and a couple other websites looking for photos of the radome open on a Geasel, and didn't find a one.

Good luck,

Scott

[ghatherly]

Scott, thanks for checking on my question and answering so quickly. My assumption is this end of the jet was kept buttoned up and rarely photographed for obvious reasons.

J-Basset: Glad you brought that to my attention. The angle makes the space look larger than it is, but what you first saw I had the Coaming pushed all the way up into the Tamiya nose, and both being Tamiya parts made sense. I looked at the Tamiya kit and sure enough, there is a space between the nose and the front of the coaming, which is set with a locating pin. I took some profile shots of the nose with everything int he correct position, tell me what you think.

Here are some shots of the interior showing the distance the panel is from the wind screen frame and the front canopy. This structure will hold the PE parts that detail the cockpit sills and canopy frames.

Note: The C panel is just for mock up use. I have started work on the G Panel.

Thanks again for the help.

Gary

Edited July 14, 2012 by ghatherly

[jmel]

Your book has been very helpful, but I may need your help with the side panels when I get to the cockpit

I'm glad to hear it's been helpful. I have taken over 9,000 detail images of the F-4 ( most of which were taken after the Phantom Guide came out! ) so just let me know what you need.

Jake

[ghatherly]

Hi Jake, I appreciate the offer of the help. What I need are side wall pictures showing the fuse panels and other controls, the side Instrument panels them selves, and anything showing the nose under fairing with the Radom open. The specific detail is the panels that blank off the old gun fairing on both sides.

Thanks, Gary

[Scott R Wilson]

I forgot to answer your question on the extender bar. From what I remember and what I see in the photos I posted, it was slightly taller than wide, and had a ridge down both sides that rollers in the radar package rode on. There is a square flange on the end mounted off to the left side that was a stop to keep the package from coming out any further. The extender bar is definitely on my list of things I wish I had photographed back in the day. The end that inserted into the square hole in the jet at the top of the retracted package was beveled to a dull point top and bottom, with the sides parallel as I recall, but I don't remember it clearly enough to tell you how it looked exactly. It had some method that locked it into the jet so it couldn't fall out while supporting the radar, but I don't remember how that worked either. I never used it, being a comm-nav avionics troop. The WCS guys (Weapons Control Systems) were the ones who used it, and I worked alongside those guys pretty often whick is why I know as much about it as I do.

Scott

[ghatherly]

Hi Scott, I found a picture in Jake's book that shows the bar for an F-4D, Would these be the same by chance? I also want to ask if there was a sold bulkhead between the Gun magazine bay and the front radar bay? What color was the inside of the bays, Black or zinc-chrome-green color?

Thanks, Gary

[jmel]

There is a solid wall in the gun bay that separates the radar area. You can see it on page 44 of the Phantom Guide.

Send me an e-mail and I'll get you the other pics you need.

Jake

[ghatherly]

Thanks Jake, email sent.

[ghatherly]

I have a Scott/Jake question? Or anyone else who might know. How is the interior fuselage of the radar compartment finished off? Is it exposed structure? Insulated? Skinned like the gun bay? From what I can see from Jake's book it looks like zinc-chrome-green interior color, is this correct? Thanks in advance.

Gary

[Scott R Wilson]

I have a Scott/Jake question? Or anyone else who might know. How is the interior fuselage of the radar compartment finished off? Is it exposed structure? Insulated? Skinned like the gun bay? From what I can see from Jake's book it looks like zinc-chrome-green interior color, is this correct? Thanks in advance.

Gary

Exposed structure, no interior skin, no insulation, painted what looked to me to be FS34151 interior green.

Scott W.

[ghatherly]

Thanks Scott

[ghatherly]

Thanks Scott

[Rogier77]

This build looks to be great. I will follow this one. The Revell kit, is thit a old kit or a new one? I have a F4F kit from Revell, with the Flightpath correction kit as well. I planned to build a F4-AUP from the Greek. If i see your corrections....OMG

They say that the F4F kit is a new tool kit, so if there are so much correction to do,

what new re-tool

Good luck with your build. I am a fan already.

Rogiér