DutyCat Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Shuttle Wars, part 14 is now posted on the dutycat youtube channel Still photos and narrative posted on the dutycat blog here. Thanks for watching! Gil Gregg Edited July 16, 2012 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hello Gil, I like the idea of putting LEDs into the flight deck; more and more builds I watch on youtube feature LED lighting, I think it adds a little bit of fun to the build! Have you considered how you're going to replace all that "lovely" tile detail when you come to sanding back the filler? I've spent some time thinking how I'm going to do it when I get round to building mine - thin medical tape? Shingles of very thin plastic card (I don't think I'll even try that.. :wacko: )? a bit of rescribing? or just rely on a careful paint job? The tiles and blankets of the orbiters are so noticeable that I feel something should be done to replicate it, but I'm not sure what or how? Any ideas? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Gil, The Revell 1/72 shuttle looks like it's going together a lot easier then the Monogram did. I really like the 3 piece wing with the single bottom piece. Certainly a lot less sanding on the bottom. I wish the 1/144 Revell shuttle had the same 3 piece wing assembly. Keep the videos coming, I look forward to seeing these projects finished. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hello Gil, I like the idea of putting LEDs into the flight deck; more and more builds I watch on youtube feature LED lighting, I think it adds a little bit of fun to the build! Have you considered how you're going to replace all that "lovely" tile detail when you come to sanding back the filler? I've spent some time thinking how I'm going to do it when I get round to building mine - thin medical tape? Shingles of very thin plastic card (I don't think I'll even try that.. :wacko: )? a bit of rescribing? or just rely on a careful paint job? The tiles and blankets of the orbiters are so noticeable that I feel something should be done to replicate it, but I'm not sure what or how? Any ideas? Jeff Hi Jeff. I think with the tiles, there is simply no reasonable way to replace them with raised detailing. Initially, I am going to try to bridge the seam gaps with careful rescribing. If it looks too jacked up I will sand them down and use decals. I'll just have to see when the time comes. With the Monogram kit, decals are the way to go unless you want to go all OCD and laminate it with strip styrene, or try to hand scribe it like some brave folks. I have an idea about how to represent the thermal blankets on the upper wings and fuselage......something that has never been done before, but I am not quite ready to spill the beans on that. I don't know if it will work or not. We'll see! I want folks to understand that one reason I am doing the shuttle video series is to serve the space modeling community. I am taking on these two iconic kits with hopes of figuring out just what it takes to get a good result. Each has glaring problems that have to be overcome. The mistakes I make along the way, and solutions I come up with, are being documented for others who might want to tackle one or both of these beasties. These kits are likely the only large scale shuttles the modeling community will ever see. They are expensive and labor intensive, and modelers don't want to screw them up trying overcome their problems. When it is all done, I am going to provide a summary of these kit's "issues" and my best recommendations on how to deal with them. Take care. -Gil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Gil, The Revell 1/72 shuttle looks like it's going together a lot easier then the Monogram did. I really like the 3 piece wing with the single bottom piece. Certainly a lot less sanding on the bottom. I wish the 1/144 Revell shuttle had the same 3 piece wing assembly. Keep the videos coming, I look forward to seeing these projects finished. Mike. Thanks Mike. I have been working on these since....I think December. The Monogram shuttle is a little more challenging to assemble, for sure....because of the parts breakdown and those PITA windows. Then there is the tank and SRB's, which take some work. But my impression at this point is once you figure out how to get around its "gotchas," you will end up with a more accurate shuttle at the end of the day. But to really do it up right, you need the tile decals, the resin engines, a good selection of aftermarket upper marking decals, and solid assembly and finishing skills. With the stack and all the extras you are looking at a couple hundred bucks roughly. Edited July 21, 2012 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 The Revell kit's assembly is indeed a little easier in some ways, provided one removes the tiles completely. Every one I have seen where somebody has tried to keep the tile detail has had some wicked seams on the bottom where the wing bottom and fuselage halves meet up. BTW, when it comes to the aft payload bay section, totally fill and sand that seam flush since the real rear end of the bay is right in front of the OMS pods. I'm not entirely sure why Revell shortened it by a short segment on theirs given that they scribed a hinge detail into the model on that aft segment section anyway (maybe they didn't catch the error until they were too far along to fix it). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The Revell 1/72 shuttle appears to be the same basic shape as their 1/144 shuttle kit. The assembly is quite different, however the overall shape looks about the same. The nose on both the 1/72 and 1/144 shuttles both have the same 'flatter' look on top and the OMS pods both have the boxy shape in front and the rear has the sharp angles. My guess is Revell just copied the shortened payload doors from the 1/144 kit. While they added the hinge detail on that aft segment they should have also lengthened the doors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Hello guys, I like the Revell orbiter for its better looking -(but still not totally accurate)- flight deck windows. The wing shape was a bit suspect until I placed it against an enlarged photo taken from the Int. Space Station and it seemed to be quite a close match in plan view (ie looking down on it) however its thickness is the real pain - I've considered sanding the lower wing panel leading edge to get a better look (the shuttles wing has the leading edge set quite low on the rounded front section - look at any good shadowy picture of the shuttle and you'll see what I mean. Technical description to follow when I remember the correct terms.. Edited to add - Ok, after a day at work I'll try to explain a little further: the point where the upper surface and lower surface meet is set quite low (biased towards the lower surface) and not equidistant based on overall wing thickness , the upper surface curves downwards towards a flatter lower surface...there you go, clear as mud :P (end of edit) That's one area that Monogram seem to have done better; my Monogram kit is not to hand here for me to compare, but looking at Gils build their wing profile just looks more accurate. Funnily enough, the Revell 1/144 kit shares the same thick wing but Airfix seemed to have managed to get it on their kit (which is from 1978!!!). I agree almost entirely with Gil that these two attempts are probably the only large scale kits we'll ever have, but with Trumpeter and Hobby Boss both producing kits of aircraft (and tanks, ships and cars etc..) that only in peoples wildest dreams did they imagine would ever be released, there is still a glimmer of hope that they may consider producing a nice 1/72 (imagine a 1/48 ) orbiter. The shuttles are now on display and China has a strong space programme, so there may be some interest around to consider it? Please, please, please... Anyway, great build and I can't wait to see how you tackle those pesky tiles!!! Jeff Edited July 17, 2012 by Pinky coffeeboat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Indeed Airfix did manage to get their wing shape just about right. Monogram's 1/72 wing shape I personally think is better than Revell's, but considering one has to look at the angles just right to catch the shape subtlety, I give Revell a pass on that. As for the OMS pods, yes Revell's are pretty boxy. The upper profile looks fine, but it is the pods' lower profile where it mates up with the sides of the fuselage that gives it the fat look (and Airfix seemed to get the shape right as well in 1/144). I'm not entirely sure why Revell did it that way, unless they were interpreting the pod as being more like what it would have been if NASA and Rockwell had kept on the aerodynamic fairings on the payload bay doors (which would have smoothed the aerodynamic flow on the pods). BTW, one little bit of trivia about OMS pods not too many people are aware of. The black section of HRSI tile on the fronts of the pods that was added circa 1985 was done to deal with a localized hot spot. STS-9 returned with a heat shield burn through on one of the pods right down to the graphite epoxy structure. If it had penetrated deeper, it could have breached a fuel or oxidizer tank in the pod (anice big fireball would have been a result of that) because they sit just behind the front wall of the pod. Wind tunnel testing revealed that if there was a shape disturbance around the nose near the wing chines (where the water discharge nozzles sit), it can cause a localized heating spot on the pods. So the HRSI tile area was added to that specific area to deal with it if the problem ever popped up again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hi Jay, Re STS-9 that would have been such a catastrophe for the shuttle program so early in its career that you could question whether or not the whole programme would have been allowed to continue? When were the additional OMS pod tiles added - the ones at the rear lower edge where the OMS pods attach to the fuselage and just above the umbilical panels? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 You mean those tiles at the back by the RCS thrusters? Technically the first ones were added on STS-3 after a localized hot spot was detected on inspections after STS-1 and 2. A heat spike was coming up the sides of the orbiter in the gap between the inboard elevons and the boat tail. Over time the tile pattern evolved to what we see today. The tile patch I was referring to was in front of the OMS pods (you can clearly see them in most payload bay shots looking aft). According to my references, both patches were first used on STS-51B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hi Jay, Thanks for the info. I thought as much by looking at the rear of the shuttle and how it re-entered the atmosphere but wasn't sure when they were added. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveS Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You mean those tiles at the back by the RCS thrusters? Technically the first ones were added on STS-3 after a localized hot spot was detected on inspections after STS-1 and 2. A heat spike was coming up the sides of the orbiter in the gap between the inboard elevons and the boat tail. Over time the tile pattern evolved to what we see today. The tile patch I was referring to was in front of the OMS pods (you can clearly see them in most payload bay shots looking aft). According to my references, both patches were first used on STS-51B. Actually, the tiles you're talking about was first used on STS-2. At that time it was configured as a 6x6 square consisting of only HRSI tiles. The current configuration which is a mix of LRSi and HRSI tiles was first used on STS-41G. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper494 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 anymore progress vids Clive Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) anymore progress vids? Clive Oh, yes, more video is coming soon. It has been a busy couple of months. I was building a sub in dry dock for the nationals. Also, I am a school teacher, and we just came back, so there was steep ramp up for that. The shuttles were on hold for a bit, but I will resume work on them shortly. BTW, here is the sub. You can see the effort was worth it. 2nd place in its class. Edited September 8, 2012 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Congrats on the award. The sub is obviously Soviet, but what class is it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Congrats on the award. The sub is obviously Soviet, but what class is it? Thanks Jay. It is a November. It was their first nuclear sub class, a contemporary of the Nautilus and Skate boats. The kit has only been out a couple of years. Simple build, as all post war modern hull subs are. The action, of course is in the paint job and scratch built dry dock. Edited September 13, 2012 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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