Jump to content

Is IPMS still relevant?


Recommended Posts

I won't say that that the IPMS irrelevant. It's just not relevant to me.

I will agree to that, I have also met great people on line here and every once in a while we meet in real life..... when that real life permits. Funny how it is a nice banter around the table and not much model talk.

My one run in with the nose up was when I told a modeler that I built armour to relax from detailed Aircraft builds. I don't think I made a friend that day.... :rolleyes:

Edited by Emvar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Relevant? Not really to me I guess. I am a member and I see it more of a magazine subscription than being a member of anything. There isn't nor ever has been AFAIK a local chapter closer than about 50 or so miles from me. Like some said already, I build for fun, not contests, but again, that's not why I'm a member. I don't even think I keep my membership card, I know it's not in my wallet. I initially joined in the late '70s as a teen, then dropped out sometime in the '80s when there was some big conspiricy or something going on and all of the mags were nothing but complaining and mudslinging, no modeling, so, like lots of others then, I dropped out. I renewed sometime in the '90s and I think the quality of the mags or maybe they were having trouble with printing, I don't remember, but I dropped out then because I wasn't getting the mags or something like that. I renewed again in the last few years and again, it's more of a mag subscription than being a member of something, so maybe relevant isn't the right word for me for 35 years or so. It's just another model magazine to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just (re)joined IPMS Canada again recently after letting my membership laps back in 1995-ish.

I believe that 'membership' and 'contests' are mutually exclusive. I've entered contests without being a member, and I've been a member and never entered a contest. I've not been to a model club meeting of any ilk in about 15 years though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about it lately. There isn't really a chapter very close to me nor are there any modeling clubs. The only one I know of is a church group and they go way too into the religious side of it from what I've heard. That's all fine but it's not my thing. I'm not really a personable person I guess you could say so I'm a bit anxious about going to a meeting. I think it would be fun to show some models and such in person. I had a good time at the one and only show/contest I was ever at and will be going to again this year.

What are the perks of IPMS? You get some form of newsletter magazine or something? What are these discounts I hear of?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a member about 16 years ago, and just re-upped this year. Planning on attending the nationals and figured if i completed something I had to be a member to enter it. Not that I think I could win anything, more just to support the hobby/event/clubs. And since I am taking the Family to FL too, gives me more reason to spend that time around the model stuff too.

Edited by IrishGreek
Link to post
Share on other sites

Though I reside in Hungary I was member of IPMS UK for years back in 80's early 90's. It was interesting to see the modeling world and the people in England, the publications had some great information but I would say much more information, techniques, new materials could be gained on personal level. IPMS is not only about competitions.

We have our monthly modeling club in Budapest named ReBeKa since the seventies (at least that is when I first attended) and it gives all that personal contact, time for questions, showing this and that, the social part of our hobby without having to belong to any society. In the 80's we did think about creating IPMS Hungary, but it would have created so many problems and in those socialist times it was not easy to create a society and be part of a bigger international community. Also the question of membership fees involves so many financial dealings that were not acceptable by the law in those days.

In late 80's we were starting our own international competitions and I wanted to take over as much as possible from long standing IPMS experiences in organization, rules, judging. We have tried over the years many techniques and ended up with our own which is clearly visible and understandable by thousands of visitors to the Mosonmagyarovar international competition. It is different from IPMS rules but is very clear and gives an unbiased result.

The financial part of the membership could be solved, that would not be a problem even though Hungarian economy is completely bust at the moment.

One last note. Some time ago I remember heated discussions at IPMS nationals in UK about using other materials in the hobby. White metal, etched brass, resin and many other revolutionary new techniques and materials were finding their way into the hobby. The cons were saying: “even the name has it in itself International PLASTIC M... S... “ so it should be plastic and nothing else. :bandhead2: It was sad to see such an ultra conservative approach to the hobby. Times change and so should IPMS find its way, its new way. This is applicable not only back then but also today.

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just (re)joined IPMS Canada again recently after letting my membership laps back in 1995-ish.

Like Riderfan, I let my IPMS Canada membership lapse around '97 or so.

I just renewed it in 2011. I think the main reason was the quality of R/T...there were so many well written, well researched, quality articles that appealed to me, it just made sense to join again. R/T is also the only magazine I currently subscribe to.

I was a member of IPMS Edmonton for a few years, and thoroughly enjoyed all the meets we had; the regular monthly ones and the impromptu morning coffees. I believe I've made some lasting friendships that transcend modelling as a result of that club. When I moved to Ottawa, I tried the local IPMS chapter, but for a few reasons (ie distance, meeting date) it just didn't work out. Also, the local IPMS chapter seems weighted towards aircraft. I'm mostly into AFV's, and there's a local AMPS chapter that I belong to get that fix. I find the interaction of the local club great as there are people skilled in a variety of aspects of the hobby, and there's nothing like speaking with them face to face to learn a new technique. I'm not sure if the local clubs would be as succesful with or without a national level parent organization? I suspect they'd survive, but there's little chance of a magazine like R/T being generated without some collaborative oversight from something like IPMS Canada.

Edited by GINge!
Link to post
Share on other sites

The only one I know of is a church group and they go way too into the religious side of it from what I've heard. That's all fine but it's not my thing.

If you only had faith, decal silvering would just go away... :pray:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a member because I build for my enjoyment, not competitively.

I perceive that you think IPMS is all about competition. It's not. It's an aspect of the organization but not its driving force. I build for enjoyment, too. When I choose to enter a contest I do it going in with the thought that if I win something, it's just icing on the cake for that particular model. I learned a long time ago NOT to build a model for someone else to judge - you're going to be mighty disappointed most of the time. I have no ego to bruise, I just have have fun building my models. If I don't win, oh well - I just had fun building the model and looking at others in the contest.

IPMS is a great venue for learning how to improve your models (if you so desire), learn new techniques, and generally mix with others that have a like interest. I've been a member of my local chapter for nearly 45 years, and I have a lot of great friends that share the hobby because of the organization.

Terry

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't speak for IPMS-USA, but here are some thoughts from an IPMS (UK) member.

Only 50% (approximately) of our members belong to a club (a Branch, a Chapter - whatever you want to call it). The rest are solo modellers, either because there is not enough interest locally to form a Branch or because they are quite happy to pursue the hobby individually.

Membership for both IPMS (UK) and IPMS-USA is rising steadily and has been for a number of years - that means people still find it relevant.

In order to remain relevant IPMS has to grow with the hobby and address the needs of modellers. It cannot remain unchanged as it will stagnate (as the UK organisation was doing 10 years ago).

IPMS (UK) is not about competing - fewer than 1 in 10 of our members compete at our annual championships. Scale ModelWorld has some 5000 models on display every year - only about 800-900 of those are in the contest. Most members prefer to 'build to display', rather than 'build to compete'.

IPMS (UK) has also made a concerted effort to become visible - monthly columns in two major magazines, Exec Committee members attending shows and running membership stands, full page adverts in another magazine. That commitment is paying off because it's generating new members.

Trying new avenues works as well - Facebook and Twitter are appealing to a new generation of modellers for example. Being able to join online is becoming very popular. Plus over half our members pay their subs by direct debit so the renewal is automatic rather than having to remeber to send a cheque off in the post

IPMS will remain relevant as long as it is run by modellers, for modellers. It will never appeal to all modellers and neither should it seek to do so. It will always have its critics and it will always have its share of over-zealous 'enthusiasts' who try to dictate how and what should be achieved (just like any other interest-based society). Hopefully we can control the latter enough so that ordinary modellers get to see the best of us rather than the worst.

I freely admit to being biased. I've been a member for 24 years and served on our national executive for the past 13 of those years. It's currently my job to promote IPMS (UK) :D

Regards,

John Tapsell

IPMS (UK) Publicity Officer

Link to post
Share on other sites

Though I reside in Hungary I was member of IPMS UK for years back in 80's early 90's. It was interesting to see the modeling world and the people in England, the publications had some great information but I would say much more information, techniques, new materials could be gained on personal level.

Still true, today, though I can only speak for I.P.M.S.(U.K.)

One last note. Some time ago I remember heated discussions at IPMS nationals in UK about using other materials in the hobby. White metal, etched brass, resin and many other revolutionary new techniques and materials were finding their way into the hobby. The cons were saying: “even the name has it in itself International PLASTIC M... S... “ so it should be plastic and nothing else. It was sad to see such an ultra conservative approach to the hobby. Times change and so should IPMS find its way, its new way. This is applicable not only back then but also today.

Heated discussions have been part and parcel of the society, since I first joined, but things still manage to get sorted out, in the (relatively) calmer conditions of the A.G.M. Resin was seen as a form of plastic, so became accepted, as did etched brass and white metal, if they were part of the model, not its whole. Competition classes were expanded, as well, to cater for the changes.

You might forgive (I hope) the diehards' views, if you realise that the society started, in the U.K., 50(ish) years ago, as a means to show the public what could be achieved with a "cheap-and-nasty" material like plastic, and they were (are, those that are still with us) justifiably proud of their achievements; in those first days, if you wanted a cockpit interior, you carved the bits out of left-over plastic parts. When I attended my first U.K. Nationals, about 40 years ago, it was held in the back room of the RAF Museum; today it will fill four halls, two of which can accommodate full-size tennis courts, with members travelling from all parts of the world (and carrying off most of the prizes, too!)

A Branch is the product of its members, not the society, so it's, unfortunately, a matter of pot luck if the one you find is as welcoming as a ladies' sewing circle, or dominated by clever-dick knowalls.

Edgar

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting comment Moose. I considered joining IPMS Canada while a member of IPMS Ottawa. Some of the members of the local chapter turned me off IPMS and they also alienated a couple of potential members from joining the local chapter as well. Some people in the chapter thought that their skills and abilities were above everyone else and that they were superior modelers. Comments to that effect at a chapter meeting a few years ago really annoyed and angered a few members. It caused a couple of people who were attending their first meeting to look like deer caught in the headlights, never to return to another chapter meeting. It also caused a few members to leave the chapter. At one chapter meeting many years ago, I remember asking one very skilled modeler a question about what paints and flat coat he used to get such a great finish on his aircraft. He looked down his nose at me, turned around and walked away without answering my question. This was at the second or third meeting I attended. A great ambassador he was! Despite that person, I stayed for a couple of years and I did make a couple of very good friends during my time with the chapter but I won't be returning any time soon. I get more information and support here and on other forums that I belong to than I ever did at IPMS.

I won't say that that the IPMS irrelevant. It's just not relevant to me.

Moose: you're right. Ironically though for me, the local chapter that AX is talking about would also be my local chapter were I to join. His comments are sadly not encouraging.

But I will keep an open mind for future.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Moose: you're right. Ironically though for me, the local chapter that AX is talking about would also be my local chapter were I to join. His comments are sadly not encouraging.

But I will keep an open mind for future.

Kevin:

Things may have changed with that chapter in the five years since I stopped regularly attending meetings. I went to one meeting in early 2010 to thank the members that were present for the donation the chapter made to the trust fund of a murdered colleague. I am simply expressing my thoughts about what the chapter was like when I was a member and some of the issues I encountered that caused me to let my membership lapse.

You should take the opportunity to attend a meeting or two and make the decision to see if it's your cup of tea.

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

IPMS is relevant.

It frames our hobby and us as modellers; whether we compete or not. Competition and the "rule of law" enable progress, regardless of the community - modeling, athletics, manufacturing. That modelling progress has resulted in some truly fantastically accurate kits (and many duds) of a very diverse set of subjects. We can build a masterpiece today that only craftsman could do back in the 70's.

I am not a member. I don't need to be a member of a society to feel a part of the fraternity. I go to shows, even national ones, and I pay my way. I compete with myself to make the next model better; I may never enter a competition, but "never" is a long time...

I don't view the Journal as relevant; it's yet another paper magazine competing with the many mags already out there. Before the internet it certainly was relevant, and I was a member just for the Journal and the content. The online content is relevant and should be the source of rules, and other membership info. I get the latest reviews, subject detail information and news on the forums I frequent.

I meet with some fellow Modelers each month and we talk, joke, share knowledge and skills, and have a very good time. I look forward to it with passion. I am allowed to help document our stories and builds with a monthly newsletter that goes to our 40 "members" (aka email list). Our youngest is 9, our oldest is well past retirement. Some of us are IPMS members, both at the nearest affiliated club (1.5 hrs away for me) and some judge nationally.

IPMS is relevant.

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez Randy, why don't you just ask everyone where their sexual preferences lay!

Seriously though, a good conversation starter.

First off, let me say that I have been a member of IPMS Canada for a very long time (30 years?). And full disclosure here, I have known most of the members (past and present...) of the national executive for almost as long. I use to live in Ottawa (home base for IPMS Canada) but have resided in London, Ontario for 26 years. I have been a member of the local chapter, IPMS London for that 26 years.

I will continue to be a member of IPMS Canada for a couple of reasons; one, I believe that their position of making Canadian subject matter a primary factor in their research and modeling articles important. Secondly, through IPMS Canada I have gained friends from across Canada and the world. And from a local point of view, IPMS Canada provides standard operating procedures with regard to competitions, governance and process.

I have read through the posts and frankly, the comments made are consistent with what has been said in the past. Primarily, there are concerns with (a) competition, (B) elitism, © 'what would I get out of it', and (d), having no need to 'share' the hobby.

There are those who automatically associate a national and/or local modeling organization with competition and think that is all we care about. Although competition does play a role in this hobby, there is absolutely no requirement for anyone to 'have' to compete. Like any hobby, talent or sport, the only way to get better at it is to practice, and receive constructive reviews/coaching of your work. For some, this part of our hobby is important because they want to get better at building models. For others, not so much. Over the years national executives have put together competition rules and procedures to allow for consistency across whatever country they look after. Where the system has failed, in my opinion, is that it doesn't allow for critical review of the model afterwards. Often we see models place 1st, 2nd etc., but we never find out why our models didn't win or place. At most of the shows I attend, time is the issue. Most times, judging takes place in a matter of a couple of hours and there is no time afterward to talk to the model builder and review their build. This is where we could learn a thing or two from the AMPS group.

Some comments were made about local chapters being 'elite' and some members looked down their noses at guests to the local meeting. Unfortunately, this is a part of being a member of ANY organization. There will always be someone who thinks that they are better than everyone else or is less friendly to newcomers. This has already been mentioned, but it is worth reinforcing; our hobby attracts a wide variety of people from different social demographics. And to top it off, we all have our own opinions, thoughts and preferences with regard to well, everything. I know that my back gets up whenever I hear that someone (who attended one of our meetings...) thought our local group is elitist and not friendly. So let me get this straight; in matter of a couple of hours (with over half of the meeting being a presentation and chapter business...) that person was able to analyze and conclude that we were elitists? Really? That's an incredible talent. Over the years our local group has had some 'interesting' characters; we still have some. In fact, I think I may be one of them. But as in any social setting, you can learn who are the good and not so good, and hang with whoever you feel comfortable with. I have visited a couple of chapter meetings in other cities and I have always felt welcome. I know that our local group goes out of their way to make newcomers welcome. It is my opinion that if being a part of a group that has the same interest (modeling)as you is important, you will make the effort to become a part of that group. It is not fair to expect the club membership to do all of the work in getting a newcomer comfortable in this new setting. The newcomer also needs to make the effort to get involved and allow people to get to know him/her as well.

Most people want to see value for money spent. Over the years, whenever membership to IPMS Canada comes up, or joining the local chapter for that matter, I can't count the times I have heard "and whats' in it for me?". Membership in an organization is sometimes hard to quantify. For some people, if they don't receive quantifiable, materialistic items, they are not interested. For others, 4 or 6 magazines a year just doesn't cut it. And locally, for some newcomers, if we can't promise to turn the person into an award winning modeler in one year or less, they are not interested. For me, being a member of IPMS Canada gives me the satisfaction of being a part of a national organization of people who share my interest in plastic modeling. As part of that, I also receive 'RT', the IPMS Canada magazine. For me, that's plenty of value for my membership fee. As for my local chapter, I enjoy meeting my friends and other modelers to talk about models and other stuff. I realize that I could 'meet' other modelers online and 'talk' models, but I'm old school. I like seeing my friends laugh at a joke and I like actually looking at the model on the table as we talk about it. Money well spent, I say.

As for those who want to only build models and not be a part of a group, all I can say, and I say this seriously, is 'enjoy!'. For most, modeling is an escape from the pressures of life and work. For some of us, we find that the hobby takes on a broader aspect and includes a social component. For others, there is no need for the social side of things. It's a hobby, and is to be enjoyed in whatever capacity an individual sees fit.

Sorry for the length of this, but after reading the posts, I felt I needed to get this off of my chest.

Remember, its' a hobby; nothing more, and nothing less.

Thanks for listening.

Kerry

Edited by warthog60
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well said Kerry, couldn't agree more. And just to add a little to the notion of a diverse group of people getting together for meetings, you also must think about the different "sects" in modeling. Putting model building aside, if you look just at the subject matters you will have a broad range of interest. People who like modern aircraft might have a totally different personality trait than the poeple that are "gear heads". People who like tanks typically have a different personality than people who love tall ships. (I know that's slightly stereotyping and there are those that like all of them, but ya get the jist) So model building can take all these different groups and bring them together with a common interest. Natually there are times when the personalilties will forget about the common thread and clash. That's just the way it goes. But hopefully you won't let a few bad attitudes sway you away from possibly joining a local group.

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites

To each their own, of course, but for me, IPMS is completely relevant. It is like any other association...a formal fellowship of individuals with a common interest. Fraternity is part of the appeal. Although I do use modeling to get some "alone time" at home, I also view my chapter contact as a social outlet. This is in addition to ARC, the dutycat website, YouTube channel, and blog.

Yes, there is the competitive side of things. I compete in all of the area shows that I can. Our chapter hosts a show every February. However, our shows are more about providing an opportunity for modelers to get together than drubbing the competition (although I definitely try to do that as well).

So yes, I am "all in."

Gil Gregg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here. For me modelling is an escape from the everyday, the chance to spend a couple of hours sticking bits of plastic together and not having to worry about what anyone else thinks of what I'm doing. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad IPMS exists and I hope it continues to do so, but I'm a solitary modeller and I wouldn't get anything out of going to a meeting.

Vince

Your 1,800+ posts on the ARC forum tells me you like associating with fellow model builders, though, which is exactly what going to a meeting is all about. Most meetings don't consist of a group of guys sitting around building models. We talk about what we are working on, show off our work, and conduct clinics to teach new techniques. Building Models may be a solitary endevour, but Model Building doesn't have to be a solitary hobby...

Link to post
Share on other sites

We should probably convert it into a legislative action organization to protect the hobby from unnecessary government over-regulation. :smiley-chores015:

But then who would keep all those little 10ml bottles of Mr Hobby paint from falling into the hands of evil-doers???

/sarcasm

Link to post
Share on other sites

Conversely, if you are not a member, what is the number one reason why you are not a member?

Note that I am not asking about membership in a local chapter of IPMS. I am asking as it applies to a national level of IPMS.

I ask because I wonder if IPMS in general, has lost, or is losing its relevance since the advent of web based modelling sites.

Cheers

Randy Lutz

IPMS Canada

IPMS, yes.

IPMS Canada, nope.

I've been in this hobby for just about 5 years, so everything is new to me. I didn't know about filing and sanding seams, or paint, or applying decals, or even research. I don't know about the types of model companies or their histories.

And I didn't know what IPMS was.

So I joined a local IPMS chapter and ... the guys, surprisingly, didn't talk about modeling. Sure they brought in unbuilt kits and talked ad nauseam about Frog or Astra or some obscure company that is no more, but when I asked about weathering with pastels, sorry, don't know. When I would bring in built models wherein I would try out bare metal finishes with aluminum foil, they had never tried it before and couldn't offer any suggestions. When I asked about airbrushes and masking techniques, sorry can't help ya, never tried it.

Now, some of these members have been members for over 35 years and didn't build kits. :blink: So, to experience the fun of the hobby I entered a lot of local and regional shows, and won alot. Our local club had about 13 members and about 3 members 'competed'. And I learn a lot from looking at other models and asking their builder a lot of questions.

I had heard about RT from the club, and had no idea what it was. And in order to enter a US NATS, I had to become a member of IPMS. So I joined IPMS Canada.

Well, being a graphic designer, RT was, quite frankly, a poor publication. Poorly designed, ( not easy to read ), seemingly just 3 or 4 regular contributors, and in this world of desktop publishing, there is no excuse for a poorly designed, national publication.

I was a member for a couple of years, and had made a few suggestions to the editor about improving the 'magazine'. To no avail. (I did contribute a couple of articles, that were published, and got involved to a small degree.) And that mascot ... I realize you got it for free, but really, it needs some updating. :whistle: And the decals? Do they appeal to a lot of Canadian modellers?

So I opted out of IPMS Canada and joined IPMS USA. I've only been a member for less than a year. But, their publication is a pleasure to read. For my tastes, there's too much armour, but the articles give a terrific indication as to what IPMS USA does for it's community. ( I shall submit a build article or two later on )

IPMS USA has their NATS ... IPMS Canada ... not that I've heard. I don't know the history, and it doesn't matter. I just wanna know why we don't have a National show of our own? There's a regular poster here on ARC, that whenever the next location of the USA NATS is suggested, he pipes up with a Toronto location. Pul-eeze! ( I will guess he's not a member of IPMS Canada )

When I post here, I get feedback, I get suggestions as to techniques that I had no idea existed, I get answers. I communicate with modellers from all over the world.

So Randy, is IPMS Canada relevant? I don't see how.

Do you get a lot of participation from Canadian modellers?

How do you promote IPMS Canada? I mean, I haven't even seen tables, or brochures, at the shows in Southern Ontario promoting the benefits (?) of membership in IPMS.

Having said all this, I'd like to know your opinion. Is IPMS Canada relevant from your point of view Randy? I'd love to hear your POV. PM me if you wish.

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been a member of IPMS-USA since ~1965 (high school days). I'm still committed to staying a member. I, and my models, are better off for it. A modeling friend from OKC in the 70s was just up here in Maine visiting. The conversation, rubbing elbows at the workbench and all the models, have their roots in forming the first OKC chapter of IPMS 40+ years ago.

The work done by the current crop of officers is excellent and I like the magazines and other things they crank out. The hours they put it help keep this hobby pertinent and useful.

Sure there have been some gyrations, politics and scandals. The Society has always rode through them and gotten back on track.

When three of us here in rural Down East Maine decided to form a model club a couple of years ago, we wondered if there we others to be found. Our IPMS chapter is solidly at ten plus with a wide age range. We got some helpful credibility by having the IPMS individual memberships as well as the group's.

OK. 'Nuff said.

Rick in Maine

Link to post
Share on other sites

IPMS USA has their NATS ... IPMS Canada ... not that I've heard. I don't know the history, and it doesn't matter. I just wanna know why we don't have a National show of our own? There's a regular poster here on ARC, that whenever the next location of the USA NATS is suggested, he pipes up with a Toronto location. Pul-eeze! ( I will guess he's not a member of IPMS Canada )

Pete

Pete,

Yes, IPMS Canada should have nationals. For those who choose to participate, its a national award level event. A very big deal in my book.

Now, on the other hand, if they want to rename IPMS-USA as IPMS North America and include Canada and Mexico, then the convention could represent the entire continent. But I doubt they will do that. Even if they did, the convention would almost certainly still be held in the USA. Can't see them scheduling Mexico City or Toronto.

Some outfits require that you be a resident of the home country to be eligible for national level honors. We treat it more like a golf tournament, where anyone from anywhere can enter as long as they are a member of IPMS-USA. There are no national restrictions, so far as I know.

Gil

Edited by DutyCat
Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I am not a member. I also do this hobby to just get away from everything. I will say that I love being a member on the forum boards and that type of thing. I had been planning on going to my first IPMS contest here in Oregon this coming September. But that has changed and now I am fully boycotting it now. It was taking place at the Evergreen Aviation Museum. It has always taken place there but it used to be if you were taking part in the contest then museum entry fee was waived. But that has changed and now it has become to costly for me. I have no issue paying the entry fee for the contest which is 5 bucks. But then tack on 20 bucks a person for the museum. For my wife and I to drive the 300 miles and get lodging plus food ends up being close to 500 bucks after all is said and done. It just seems to me that some of these contests are becoming a bit elitist for my taste.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...