Supertom Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've built it and it's a fantastic little kit. It's not as "refined" as the Fujimi kit, but mind you, Airfix never meant to go out and be better than everyone else, but rather to make quality, easy-to-build kits that are affordable and easily accessible. In this aspect they have done so brilliantly and at what a price point! The one thing Fujimi doesn't have on the Airfix kit besides pricing is how easy it was to build. I've put up a quick picture I snapped of my phone to show you how mine turned out. This is out of box, missing a few items (I knocked off the blade antenna behind the cockpit and haven't put it back on), and I haven't put on the red and green clear paint to simulate formation light lenses and such. I rushed this - I completed this in 2 weeks for a total of 20 hours or so - so imagine how it would look if you took your time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jure Miljevic Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hi everybody Did anybody checked Skyhawk's model dimensions? Comparision with station diagram on page 26 of Steve Ginter's book Douglas A-4A/B Skyhawk in Navy service shows Airfix's fuselage is some 4 mm too short. How does that compare to Fujimi's early Skyhawks? Regards Jure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hi everybody Did anybody checked Skyhawk's model dimensions? Comparision with station diagram on page 26 of Steve Ginter's book Douglas A-4A/B Skyhawk in Navy service shows Airfix's fuselage is some 4 mm too short. How does that compare to Fujimi's early Skyhawks? Regards Jure Hi Jure, They both look about the same length but the Airfix appears to be slightly shorter (maybe about 1-2mm at the tail) FUJIMI ON TOP, AIRFIX AT BOTTOM (I know the nose seems to be misaligned in the pics but they actually line up equally. It must be the lighting in my room or parallax error (an optical error when in fact both fuselages are aligned equally at the nose) However, I can't quite put my finger on it but the Airfix one just feels slightly smaller. But that's just my personal feeling. Hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jure Miljevic Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks JackMan for the comparison of the two models. I have Fujimi's A-4M on the shelf and I wondered what the nose of their A-4B looks like. I agree with you about Airfix; it's quite difficult to say which part of the model is too small. Perhaps an angle of vertical tail's trailing edge is too close to vertical. Airfix looks out of scale and is more 1/75,1... than 1/72. That's a shame as I like early Skyhawks very much. Regards Jure Edited November 10, 2012 by Jure Miljevic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Interesting. I did a preliminary comparison of the kit fuselage with the best Douglas drawings that I have. It looks like it is the right size but there are some detail problems, particularly with the nose, which I thought was off when I saw the first pictures of the model. See http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/11/airfix-172-a4d-outline.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jure Miljevic Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hi Tailspin Turtle Congratulations and many thanks for material about A-4 you published on Tailhook topics. I studied it a couple of months ago when my Airfix A-4B arrived and I was keen to start building it as soon as possible. I didn't get far because of lack of such basic information as dimensions of original either in books either on the web. At the end I settled for earlier mentioned station diagram in Steve Ginter's book. Very probably that diagram had been copied from some Douglas manual. The last station is the tip of the rudder and its Y coordinate is 477,125 inches. The first station (nose of the aircraft) is on 6,985 inches. That gives the overall length of 470,14 inches or 39 feet and 2,14 inches. That compares close to 39 feet 2 inches I found in Landing loads investigation laboratory drop tests, done by Douglas which I downloaded from NACA and NASA reports website. However Flight handbook for Navy models A4D-1 & A4D2 aircraft (found with Google on the web) gives slightly different length of 39 feet 4 5/16 inches. Anyway 39 feet 2 inches scaled down to 1/72 is 165,85 mm in metric system and 39 feet 4 5/16 inches is 166,62 mm. Airfix's fuselage length is just short of 163 mm and that makes it some 3 to 4 mm too short. At the time that dampened my enthusiasm although right now 2-3% discrepancy doesn't sounds too bad. Still if one forgets about its price Fujimi’s A-4B seems to be better choice. Regards Jure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Hi Tailspin Turtle Congratulations and many thanks for material about A-4 you published on Tailhook topics. I studied it a couple of months ago when my Airfix A-4B arrived and I was keen to start building it as soon as possible. I didn't get far because of lack of such basic information as dimensions of original either in books either on the web. At the end I settled for earlier mentioned station diagram in Steve Ginter's book. Very probably that diagram had been copied from some Douglas manual. The last station is the tip of the rudder and its Y coordinate is 477,125 inches. The first station (nose of the aircraft) is on 6,985 inches. That gives the overall length of 470,14 inches or 39 feet and 2,14 inches. That compares close to 39 feet 2 inches I found in Landing loads investigation laboratory drop tests, done by Douglas which I downloaded from NACA and NASA reports website. However Flight handbook for Navy models A4D-1 & A4D2 aircraft (found with Google on the web) gives slightly different length of 39 feet 4 5/16 inches. Anyway 39 feet 2 inches scaled down to 1/72 is 165,85 mm in metric system and 39 feet 4 5/16 inches is 166,62 mm. Airfix's fuselage length is just short of 163 mm and that makes it some 3 to 4 mm too short. At the time that dampened my enthusiasm although right now 2-3% discrepancy doesn't sounds too bad. Still if one forgets about its price Fujimi’s A-4B seems to be better choice. Regards Jure Ah - there's your problem. If you look closely at the nose of the station diagram on page 26 of Ginter's A-4A/B monograph you'll see that it is an A4D-2N (A-4C), which has a nose about nine inches longer than the A4D-1/2. It doesn't help avoid confusion about the length that the A4D-1/2, when measured parallel to the ground, has a length of 39' 4 1/2" as you note. However, the length when measured along the waterline is almost a foot shorter, 38' 5 1/4". Your 163 mm along the waterline (which is what I get too) comes out to 38' 6", which is close enough for me in 1/72. Edited November 11, 2012 by Tailspin Turtle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jure Miljevic Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hi Tailspin Turtle If Steve Ginter actually published A4D-2N station diagram everything would fall into place nicely. I've been comparing that diagram with A4D-2 and A4D-2N photos for the last half an hour but I'm still not sure what I should be looking for although airplane's nose on the diagram does look a bit long for A4D-2. Also in that other reference I mentioned(Landing loads investigation laboratory drop tests) there's plenty of Douglas sketches and all of them are marked as A4D-2. Unfortunately only one of them, and not particularly good one, comes with dimensions. Are those drawings you mentioned Douglas factory or some other primary source drawings? Knowing for sure Airfix's A-4B is accurate would really make my day. Regards Jure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hi Tailspin Turtle If Steve Ginter actually published A4D-2N station diagram everything would fall into place nicely. I've been comparing that diagram with A4D-2 and A4D-2N photos for the last half an hour but I'm still not sure what I should be looking for although airplane's nose on the diagram does look a bit long for A4D-2. Also in that other reference I mentioned(Landing loads investigation laboratory drop tests) there's plenty of Douglas sketches and all of them are marked as A4D-2. Unfortunately only one of them, and not particularly good one, comes with dimensions. Are those drawings you mentioned Douglas factory or some other primary source drawings? Knowing for sure Airfix's A-4B is accurate would really make my day. Regards Jure Trust me on this. The drawings on pages 28 and 29 of Ginter's A-4A/B monograph are also not A-4A/Bs. I looked at the landing loads report you mentioned and the dimensioned drawing labeled A4D-2 is also an A4D-2N based on the dimensions given. The drawings that I'm using are all from Douglas. See http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2012/11/airfix-172-a4d-2-overall-size-and-shape.html And thanks for giving me a topic to write up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jure Miljevic Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 OK, that's settled than. You saved me a lot of cutting, sanding and a considerable amount of putty on that Skyhawk. Regards Jure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 strangely enough, Airfix made the rudder too long on the very old original molding also. I am glad I saved a few sawed off noses and rudders and etc over the years, I have enough noses to change all five of the New Airfix kits I bought into A-4B or A-4A or A-4C/L I think that if a modeler cuts off the kit nose at the correct spot at the rear of the nose, and "rotates" the nose upward and gluing it back on, that a proper B shape is possible (allowing for the length increase as it rotates, of course),,,,,use a rudder from the cheap Hasegawa or Tamiya kit, filling in the bottom part of the Airfix "extra rudder" area, or fill that area, and use the A-4A white metal rudder from the old conversion set that we used to get (try Rare Plane Detective) there is always some sort of "happy fallout" from getting new kits,,,,,,I will have enough sawed off plastic to be able to turn the Matchbox A-4M into an A-4B, flush intakes and all (with a duplicate canopy that got packed into one of my new A-4B) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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