Brad-M Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Gents, Is the pitot tube the same for both aircraft? TIA Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Yes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signals Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 What about the Chinese F-7s...would it be the same as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yes Sorry but the answeer is NO. The pitot boom as it is, same but the end of it, the working part of the pitot is different. The pitot for the MF (and all earlier versions) had the PVD-7 pitot tube attached to it while on the MiG-21 bis it was almost exclusively the PVD-18 pitot which looks different. This is why a separate set of pitot tubes for the MF and the bis is manufactured in three scales (32, 48 and 72) by the Polish Master company. And I can say it is 100% accurate since they worked from an original example that I have given to them. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Link to Master: http://www.master-model.pl/ MiG-21MF I've not yet seen the Master's MiG-21BIS pitot tubes. V.P. Yes, this is the pitot with the PVD-7 on it. As far as I know the PVD-18 version is just arround the corner . . . Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Yes, this is the pitot with the PVD-7 on it. As far as I know the PVD-18 version is just arround the corner . . . Best regards Gabor Very nice, I hope they will produse Su family of double pitots(7,17,22,25)in 1/48.. Regards P Edited August 9, 2012 by Petarvu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Super, thanks Gabor. You saved me some grief as I was going to order two sets with the PVD-7. I'll wait until the PVD-18 shows up. All the best Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ensafrirpo Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Sorry but the answeer is NO. The pitot boom as it is, same but the end of it, the working part of the pitot is different. The pitot for the MF (and all earlier versions) had the PVD-7 pitot tube attached to it while on the MiG-21 bis it was almost exclusively the PVD-18 pitot which looks different. This is why a separate set of pitot tubes for the MF and the bis is manufactured in three scales (32, 48 and 72) by the Polish Master company. And I can say it is 100% accurate since they worked from an original example that I have given to them. Best regards Gabor Are the Master pitots better than the Susemi Models versions? Edited August 11, 2012 by Ensafrirpo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The pitot for the MF (and all earlier versions) had the PVD-7 pitot tube attached to it while on the MiG-21 bis it was almost exclusively the PVD-18 pitot Hey Gabor, does your "almost" above mean that some bis's (very early production examples?) still featured the PVD-7..? Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Hey Gabor, does your "almost" above mean that some bis's (very early production examples?) still featured the PVD-7..? Cheers, Andre Hi Andre, Just like with all other developments on the aircraft, the new pitot head was introduced gradually, so you will find some late MiG-21MF (like the Czech "Grey" aircraft) with the PVD-18 type pitot and find early MiG-21 bis (seen some Russians) with the PVD-7 equipped pitot. As always consult your references. OK, I know that you will not always have a detailed walk around of the particular aircraft or a super high definition photo where you can zoom in on the pitot head. The basic rule was that the early types such is the MF (96) had the PVD-7 and bis (75) had PVD-18 (with lots of exceptions). There are no clear borders between such and such type of MiG-21 or the equipment used on it, it was a constantly developing story. If you read into the development history of the MiG-15 and MiG-15 bis you will find some amazing stories. Basically there were no two identical aircraft, in the years 1948 to 50 or 51 there were so many constructional, structural, layout, equipment . . . changes that you could only be authentic if you build one particular aircraft of which there are lots of available details, photos, walkarounds. Concerning the question: Is the Master more authentic than the Korean product? I can only say that Master has used a real pitot head, a real set of DUAS vanes (the four AOA on the pitot) and I have measured for them several real MiG-21 bis, MiG-21 MF aircraft pitot booms (and lots more for later use . . .) from which the production drawings were made. The etched brass DUAS vanes perfectly capture the shape and size of the real thing. I did not believe that it could be done for the 72nd scale but the Master team did it. I can only congratulate them on this, for me it is a 100% representation of the real thing. As to the Korean product I have only seen photos of it and was surprised to see that the DUAS vanes are given as one piece together with the pitot boom. Please have a look at the real thing and compare it to the Master product and the other one. I think you can make your own decision! Best regards Gabor Edited August 11, 2012 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (with lots of exceptions) Ain't it the truth. :) Thanks for the detailed answer! Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Sorry but the answeer is NO. The pitot boom as it is, same but the end of it, the working part of the pitot is different. The pitot for the MF (and all earlier versions) had the PVD-7 pitot tube attached to it while on the MiG-21 bis it was almost exclusively the PVD-18 pitot which looks different. This is why a separate set of pitot tubes for the MF and the bis is manufactured in three scales (32, 48 and 72) by the Polish Master company. And I can say it is 100% accurate since they worked from an original example that I have given to them. Best regards Gabor Hi Gabor. What would be the most likely version found on the MT and/or SMT? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stalal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Afterburner decals new sheets on MiG-21 have got me interested in the subject. Now my question could be off topic but can someone elaborate what is the difference between MiG-21MF and MiG-21Bis? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Now my question could be off topic but can someone elaborate what is the difference between MiG-21MF and MiG-21Bis? - different spine: http://hunavia.freew...os/photo16.html vs http://hunavia.freew...301_fv_541.html - cylindrical section front nose in the bis, oval cross section in previous versions - "smooth" wheel hub in bis, "spoked" ones in MF - different AB & other internal stuff - different wing panel lines between bis and pre-75 MFs Edited August 11, 2012 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Laurent, thank you for the quick list. I'm glad that stalal asked the question cause I was wondering the same thing. ;) I would love to do Trumpeter MF into Bis. Btw, anyone know which is a best reference book on mig-21MfF and Bis? TIA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Gabor. What would be the most likely version found on the MT and/or SMT? Now this is an excellent question. I would like to know a 100% answer to it too. We had MF and bis here. Sorry we also had S, SM, SMT, MT only they had a red star on them and the pilots spoke a strange Slav language. :D :D :D (Sorry I could not lieve this one out.) Well they served on Hungarian soil but on Russian bases with the Russian VVS. There is little good photography of these aircraft and in most cases they were (the MT and the SMT) a "border" type between the MF and the bis version with lots of inherited genetics from both types. From what we know so far in most cases it would have been the PVD-7 version. The SMT and the MT were a very strange mix. At Tököl AB there were natural metal Type 15 (SMT) with small fuel tanks (bis like) and engine exhaust (afterburner section) like the one on the Tumansky R-25, while they still had the small intake (like on the MF) and the engine in them was not R-25 but the old R-13! So what do you make of this! Not even the Russian specialist are completely clear what was happening with this "border" aircraft (called Type 15, Type 50 and also Type 75). The last one should refer to a MiG-21 bis but here it was used on MT. So I am sure you will be able to find photos with SMT that have the PVD-18. As always consult your references for the particular production aircraft you want to build!!!! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Laurent, thank you for the quick list. I'm glad that stalal asked the question cause I was wondering the same thing. ;) I would love to do Trumpeter MF into Bis. Btw, anyone know which is a best reference book on mig-21MfF and Bis? TIA Hi Youngtiger1, For the MiG-21MF it has to be the Czech WWP book, it is simply excellent!! On the MiG-21 bis there is no such book as of yet. There are different publications dealing with bit and pieces of it but no comprehensive book on it. I would most certainly not recommend the Squadron Signal Walkaround as it simply adds confusion to the whole question and the author has no knowledge of the subject! Best regards Gabor P.s. good luck with the conversion! How much time do you have for it??? :D Edited August 11, 2012 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) P.s. good luck with the conversion! How much time do you have for it??? :D How difficult would it be if shape accuracy is expected ? I've got a feeling that scratchbuilding a new spine and eventually "cylinderizing" the front nose wouldn' be enough. I have doubts about the kit's nose cone angle (too small), whole nose shape (ogive shaped) and the canopy. Edited August 11, 2012 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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