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Model Master Enamels


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I lean to MM because of the color selection, I know color shades vary to the eye, but I mostly build modern jets so lots of grey's and I like that I can look a decal sheet or instruction sheet and know the FS number I need and MM has it in their line. In Canada no one really carries Gunze for some reason can't get it into the country, when I try to order online from Lucky Model or wherever and go to add the item to my cart I get a message that product is not available to be shipped to the country you reside in, don't get it, how worse can Gunze be over Tamiya?

I love Tamiya acrylics, there flat white, Nato Black, etc, but it bugs me how they have not expanded their paint color line and there kits will give color instructions like Light Ghost Grey, Medium Grey, Gunship Grey but it is all matched to their spray cans. Why can't they release these colors in their acrylic jars like every other manufacturer. And I hate to mix colors, I suck at it.

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Testors "Model Master" line is an outgrowth of their decades-long production of oil-based enamels in the little square jars. Older guys in the USA often instinctively defend them because it's the stuff (and smell) they grew up with. It's really the USA's "home-team" paint line, much as Humbrol is Great Britain's.
Thanks for lighting the nostalgia fuse :wave: Pactra too was responsible for 'little square bottles' and came out with their line of camouflage paints in the seventies. Direct competition to Humbrol's program. All was good. Then RPM started buying up paint companies. Floquil came out with their line of superior camou paints, RPM bought them up and that's when Model Master took over as camou paint king 'enamely speaking.' That's what keeps me going back to the modeling bench, the pleasant aroma of enamels and glue.

Humbrol and RPM both make fine product but there's been a lot of quality control issues in the past decade or more.

Cheers,

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Pretty much all the basics about the MM enamels have been covered in this thread. While I am using acrylics more, MM enamel is the vast majority of my paint stock and with proper use, they still work great. BTW, if you decide to try the MM acrylics, Tamiya acrylic thinner works great for airbrush use. In fact, Tamiya thinner works better than the MM acrylic thinner I tried once (I hated that stuff).

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Thanks for lighting the nostalgia fuse :wave: Pactra too was responsible for 'little square bottles' and came out with their line of camouflage paints in the seventies. Direct competition to Humbrol's program. All was good. Then RPM started buying up paint companies. Floquil came out with their line of superior camou paints, RPM bought them up and that's when Model Master took over as camou paint king 'enamely speaking.' That's what keeps me going back to the modeling bench, the pleasant aroma of enamels and glue.

Humbrol and RPM both make fine product but there's been a lot of quality control issues in the past decade or more.

Cheers,

Now that the nostalgia fire is spreading...

...when my dad got me started modeling in the eighties, he had me use his old military paints. This was a motley collection of ancient square bottles, Testors and yes, Pactra, some of which were over 20 years old. He had 'em in an old cigar box. Those pactra paints worked very, very well! Some of the brushed finishes I put on Monogram quarter-inch planes as a kid would still, I think, be respectable to me today, long after I've adopted airbrushing.

Honestly, (and now I'm way aside) I think beginner modelers are too hastily encouraged by internet reading to get into airbrushing. They invest too much, too early, and then they burn out, because they're trying to learn too many things at once. Taking the time to learn to paint with a bristle-brush (and the practices of that, such as thoroughly stirring paint, using quality brushes and keeping 'em clean) is easier than fussing with an airbrush rig, and well worth doing in its own right. This is why I still recommend to beginners in the U.S.A that they get some old Monogram kits, some basic MM Paints, and just have a blast building up a few models, before they waste time with airbrushes, other complicated techniques, or trying to match what they see on (web-quality) photos on the web.

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Yes, a major complaint is that out of the bottle, the FS colors are flat.

One of my greatest "hobby fears" is that Testors will consider this a legitimate complaint and reformulate to make their colors semi-gloss, thinking that is what modelers want. Xtracolor and a few other brands do this, thinking they are doing us a favor by eliminating the pre-decal glossing step. However, it is a matter of them being too smart for their own good. One of the things I like most about Testors MM is that they are flat and dry quickly. When you are doing that 1/72 wraparound camo scheme, the last thing you need is paint that is going to stay tacky for the next 6 hours. What you want is paint that will dry quickly so you can go back around your model to refine your pattern and tighten up your lines. You have to be able to handle the model almost immediately without risk of fingerprints. For that, you need quick drying flats.

Edited by DutyCat
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As for a paint booth you can make one for about 60 bucks tops. I use a cardboard box with an exhaust fan from a bathroom and some flexible duct from a dryer vent. If you have space to build one on a table and can cut a hole in the table to rout the ducting you can make a down draft spray booth. With a down draft the paint is already traveling in a downward motion anyways so having the fan on the bottom of the booth helps get the paint down on the model quicker. Also it alleviates the over spray that lingers around and settles on the model as well.

Here is a drawing of a spray booth I built that uses all of the above and a 120mm fan from a computer to blow down. Like I said this can be built for around 60 bucks.

spraybooth.jpg

I've often considered making my own booth I'm pretty handy in that respect, my only concern the exhaust fan, since I spray almost 95% of my stuff with enamels is there an ignition risk using bathroom or kitchen exhaust fan? I don't think my wife would be very happy if I caught the house on fire (just sayin) :whistle:

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One of my greatest "hobby fears" is that Testors will consider this a legitimate complaint and reformulate to make their colors semi-gloss, thinking that is what modelers want. Xtracolor and a few other brands do this, thinking they are doing us a favor by eliminating the pre-decal glossing step. However, it is a matter of them being too smart for their own good. One of the things I like most about Testors MM is that they are flat and dry quickly. When you are doing that 1/72 wraparound camo scheme, the last thing you need is paint that is going to stay tacky for the next 6 hours. What you want is paint that will dry quickly so you can go back around your model to refine your pattern and tighten up your lines. You have to be able to handle the model almost immediately without risk of fingerprints. For that, you need quick drying flats.

That's a good point. I speculate that their reason for keeping them the "military flats" is for beginner modelers, who don't wish to fuss with varnishing steps. But it doesn't bother me to have them flat, because there are times when glossy paints seem to mess with my (tired) eyes, and I find I miss painting areas, or can't clearly see when I'm attempting some subtle shading. I've always regarded their lacquer varnishes the easiest of any formula to use, so I don't mind the extra glosscote step at all.

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I've often considered making my own booth I'm pretty handy in that respect, my only concern the exhaust fan, since I spray almost 95% of my stuff with enamels is there an ignition risk using bathroom or kitchen exhaust fan? I don't think my wife would be very happy if I caught the house on fire (just sayin) :whistle:

Get a squirrel cage fan with the motor outside the airflow. Anything else is asking for trouble. Also, make sure it moves a high enough CFM.

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That's a good point. I speculate that their reason for keeping them the "military flats" is for beginner modelers, who don't wish to fuss with varnishing steps. But it doesn't bother me to have them flat, because there are times when glossy paints seem to mess with my (tired) eyes, and I find I miss painting areas, or can't clearly see when I'm attempting some subtle shading. I've always regarded their lacquer varnishes the easiest of any formula to use, so I don't mind the extra glosscote step at all.

Well, I hope one reason they are keeping them flat is the reason I mentioned, although I will concede that if a person is a beginner, they will want the most user friendly product possible. Two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Their lacquer varnishes are the best. Almost impossible to mess them up.

One trick that you might know already is to carefully rub down your flat painted model with 0000 steel wool to knock down the roughness. It glosses up much easier after you have done that.

Edited by DutyCat
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One of my greatest "hobby fears" is that Testors will consider this a legitimate complaint and reformulate to make their colors semi-gloss, thinking that is what modelers want. Xtracolor and a few other brands do this, thinking they are doing us a favor by eliminating the pre-decal glossing step. However, it is a matter of them being too smart for their own good. One of the things I like most about Testors MM is that they are flat and dry quickly. When you are doing that 1/72 wraparound camo scheme, the last thing you need is paint that is going to stay tacky for the next 6 hours. What you want is paint that will dry quickly so you can go back around your model to refine your pattern and tighten up your lines. You have to be able to handle the model almost immediately without risk of fingerprints. For that, you need quick drying flats.

DutyCat, I couldn't agree with you more. I would rather start out flat and add the "shine" as needed.

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OK I have to put my 2 cents in. I have been using this spray booth for about 3 years now and have had no problems whatsoever. I agree safety is of highest concern but common. Unless your pouring straight thinner down the vent tube your not going to start a fire. The conditions have to be absolutely perfect in order to have ignition. Meaning fumes, oxygen, and ignition have to be present at the right levels in order to ignite.

I'm not saying it can't happen I'm saying the chances of it happening are slim. The fans are to push air downward into the exhaust vent and out of the room. Unless your spraying directly into the fan motor which I hope no one does the possibility of a fire is almost nonexistent. You can go and try to find a fan with a motor that is mounted outside your garage and still have an explosion inside with just the light your using to see with. The newer computer fans also run on magnets so theres actually no electrical ARC pushing the motor. And as far as the exhaust fan used from a bathroom as long as the fan is started before someone actually starts spraying there is no ARC from electricity either. So to further my point you would almost have to be thinning paint with Gasoline in order to start a fire or explosion.

I work around Jet Fuel everyday and I am very aware of fires and explosions. I didn't post my design to help someone blow their house up. I posted it because I have found it to be a great design and cheap to build. Also it works like a CHAMP because its a down draft and there is no over spray on my models.

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OK I have to put my 2 cents in. I have been using this spray booth for about 3 years now and have had no problems whatsoever. I agree safety is of highest concern but common. Unless your pouring straight thinner down the vent tube your not going to start a fire. The conditions have to be absolutely perfect in order to have ignition. Meaning fumes, oxygen, and ignition have to be present at the right levels in order to ignite.

I'm not saying it can't happen I'm saying the chances of it happening are slim. The fans are to push air downward into the exhaust vent and out of the room. Unless your spraying directly into the fan motor which I hope no one does the possibility of a fire is almost nonexistent. You can go and try to find a fan with a motor that is mounted outside your garage and still have an explosion inside with just the light your using to see with. The newer computer fans also run on magnets so theres actually no electrical ARC pushing the motor. And as far as the exhaust fan used from a bathroom as long as the fan is started before someone actually starts spraying there is no ARC from electricity either. So to further my point you would almost have to be thinning paint with Gasoline in order to start a fire or explosion.

I work around Jet Fuel everyday and I am very aware of fires and explosions. I didn't post my design to help someone blow their house up. I posted it because I have found it to be a great design and cheap to build. Also it works like a CHAMP because its a down draft and there is no over spray on my models.

Thanks Dev, I meant no offense at my question I was just curious on the safety factor as it seems 'MR. Murphy' and I are old friends, I think I'll give it a go, as far as a filter do you use just a standard furnace filter?

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jfmajor60 sorry that post wasn't posted because of your question. There was someone else who it was intended for. As far as filter I use a filter that has been cut off of a standard A/C filter. The HEPA filters yeild about 4 per filter that I cut to size. They work great and for the cost you can't go wrong.

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Triarius, looking at the designs from Pace, that you posted earlier, compared to the design that Devilleader501 posted, they both seem to have about the same chance of causing ignition. And currently working in an industrial automotive paint shop (Volkswagen's), and knowing how that system works, I would go with Devil's over the Pace design.

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Triarius, looking at the designs from Pace, that you posted earlier, compared to the design that Devilleader501 posted, they both seem to have about the same chance of causing ignition. And currently working in an industrial automotive paint shop (Volkswagen's), and knowing how that system works, I would go with Devil's over the Pace design.

Volkswagon uses cardboard as a construction material in its spray booths? :jaw-dropping:

You are both assuming that the exhaust fan he's using has an induction motor (shaded pole). While this is generally safe, it's still an electrical device. A short of any kind will still create a spark, and shorts do happen. Additionally, all fans create a static charge. In a metal booth, this charge is instantly dissipated.

Further, what is the CFM rating of the fan? It has to be able to move a sufficient amount of air through the filter, the ducting, and out. If you don't know how to calculate this (every foot of ducting and every bend has an effect) you are better off trusting someone who knows what they are doing.

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No, VW uses stainless steel. But like Devilleader's, its a downdraft system. As far as using cardboard, I would be more worried about the dust it will cause rather than risk of fire. The ducting should provide more than enough area to dissipate the charge. But, you still have a chance for static discharge from a metal booth...ever been shocked by a metal door knob? You've not mentioned anything about grounding the booth itself. Sure the fan is grounded, but it can become faulty. So, according to some logic mentioned before, if you don't ground you're metal paint booth, be prepared for your Darwin Award, cause it has the chance to build up static and spark and blow up your house. I personally would go with plywood sealed with a good stain to help prevent dust. And as far as CFM rating based on filter, ducting, etc, whats to say those Pace booths are always going to flow enough? Simply put, this is where someone just has to do their homework to find out what CFM they need their fan to be pushing/pulling. Thankfully, for those of us not in the HVAC business, we have Google and internet access to research such things.

And to stay on topic, I use Model Masters enamel exclusively. I've recently started using Kleen Strip's "Safer Paint Thinner", at a 2:1 ratio, with a couple drops of lacquer thinner with good results.

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