David Rapasi Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I made a few minor modifications to the kit. The control column was moved 5mm forward, the pilot’s seat was moved 3.5mm forward, and the instrument panel was moved 2mm to the rear. A slot was filed into the front landing gear mounting hole on the right fuselage half to permit a later installation of the landing gear. The base of each prop blade was scribed and sanded to give a better appearance. Dave Edited October 15, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I cut a hole in both sides of the fuselage so I can apply the glue to mount the wings from the inside. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 great stuff David I have one of these in the stash, your build might just inspire me to start it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 All the work GWH put into the detail of the motors, and all the work I put into the props, either the prop spinner is the wrong size, or the streamlined gear reduction cover is the wrong size. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertson Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes they got it wrong when they corrected it and added the fairing: This was pointed out as soon as the "new" CADs came out and was never corrected... The easiest thing to do is to use the Vector resin engine/prop set. Adapting Vector's canopy would be a good idea as well. Robertson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) I am going to fill the covers with epoxy then file and sand them to match the spinner. If that doesnt look acceptable Ill order the Vector parts. What is wrong with the kit Canopies, I havent removed them from the bag yet? Dave Edited September 20, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Filed and sanded, looks better and close enough when it is all weathered. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertson Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I am going to fill the covers with epoxy then file and sand them to match the spinner. If that doesn’t look acceptable I’ll order the Vector parts. What is wrong with the kit Canopys, I haven’t removed them from the bag yet? Dave The 2 windscreens are vastly different sizes: As much as 50% different... They should be the same size... Imagine one engine being 1/48th scale and the other 1/32 scale and you get the idea... Robertson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 They must have changed the glass in later kits. The top windscreen is a little larger, the base measures 10.5mm wide and the pilots windscreen is just over 9mm wide, about 15%. The only Vector P-61 replacement canopy I found at their site is for the Revell kit. At almost $ 40.00, I am not sure it would even fit the GWH kit. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Which release are we discussing, the first release with all the warts or the second release that has been "corrected"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dsmith Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Dave, What boxing are you using? Also, are you guys saying that the canopies don't fit, or they are just inaccurate? Cheers, -Doug :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The cylindrical reduction gear housings are in the second release so it would appear that Dave is using the second release. HtH, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Forty or fifty years ago I would have thought nothing of this because some of the lower quality kits were this bad when it came to the canopies. Today I don’t even check the parts for fit because of the quality of modern kits, it became a waste of time. Just assemble and paint with very minor body work. I thought I was ready to finish sanding and start painting when I removed the clear parts from the bag for masking. To my surprise the front of the canopy was about .040 inch above the front of the fuselage. I filed the canopy and the sill of the fuselage for a better fit, the photo shows how close it is now. The canopy at the front edge (highlighted with a black marker) is .055 inch thick. The fuselage will have to be split and shimmed to match the width of the front of the glass, being careful to make sure the nose fit is correct. I haven’t taken the nose out of it’s container yet! This area will have to be built up and contoured with epoxy to match the canopy. The lip for mounting the front of the canopy was removed because it left only .020 inch for the thickness of the canopy. The rear canopy is a better fit, just a little narrow at the step. It would have been a lot easier if I would have checked the fit of every piece in this kit before I started assembly and painting the interior. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Very nice work. Some day when I become richer I will be able to afford one of these. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) This is how I fixed the canopy fit. Note that the mating edges on the fuselage and canopy have a slight crown instead of being flat. Test fit the canopy constantly. The width of the canopy was fine on my kit so I didn't have to address that issue. Remove the locating pins infront of the cockpit and between the rear of the cockpit and the turret cutout. Sand these surfaces flat. Remove the lip at the front and rear of the cockpit that the canopy rest on. You will find these surfaces will need a lot of work to make them flat. Sand the canopy sills and the edges of the canopy flat. The panel infront of the cockpit is flat and slighty concave. Use the nose piece as a guide and gently bend this panel up to match the nose piece. The panel between the rear of the cockpit and the turret cutout is concave. Gently bend it up to match the canopy. At this point the canopy should be fitting pretty much like it should. Tweek as needed to finish. HtH, Dave Edited September 23, 2012 by HistnScale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 any news on the P-61B release? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdling Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Looks like you are doing some nice work. Can't believe that for the price of this kit the fit isn't better. Just a bit crazy isn't it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 The first time I fitted the canopy I filed the sills and the bottom of the canopy and had about a .040 inch step from the fuselage to the canopy as shown in the earlier photo of the nose. After reading HistnScale reply I filed more off the sills and the canopy bottom. I filed the bottom of the canopy at an angle so the rear of the canopy wouldn’t misalign. I removed almost .030 inch from both areas and I still had a .020 inch step. Plus the canopy would have to be forced and bent to get it to fit in the front and rear, then it wouldn’t fit in any of the other critical areas. I glued plastic card to the bottom and front of the canopy and sanded it to get it to fit closely allover. This now leaves a .030 inch step at the windscreen. I applied a couple of layers of .015 inch plastic sheet to fill in the gap in front of the windscreen. When the body work is finished I will post a photo of the results. The thickness of the glass, .065 inch in some places, doesn’t help either the appearance or the fit. I filed down the canopy frames to reduce the width of the canopy, it now fits on the sides. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 The canopy now matches the nose and won’t look bad once it’s painted and weathered. The fit of the other canopy pieces is acceptable. Now about that turret. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) The most unique feature of the P-61 were its ailerons…………….. To see how they function and look in the retracted position….6:15 Dave Edited September 26, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 While dithering around with the Widdow this morning, I happened to compare the fuselage parts from the first release and the second release. The first release has nice, level mating surfaces, the nose gear bay fits without any problem and the revised glass parts from the second release pretty much drop fit into place. Interesting. Build note. There is a locating pin on the bottom fuselage about in line with the cannon ports. Remove the hump on both sides and it will be much easer to slide the cannons into place when putting the fuselage together. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Seeing the nose of my model after I raised it .030 inch, in comparison with a real aircraft, it looks like the front of the wind screen was chopped off. Somehow the dimensions of the canopy were distorted on the original kit and the new kit. If they would remove .040 inch from the pilot’s third side glass and then add .040 inch to the length of the wind screen this would have a twofold effect. It would lower the front frame of the windscreen to match the fuselage and also lengthen the armored glass area to closer match the size of the gunners glass. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertson Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Seeing the nose of my model after I raised it .030 inch, in comparison with a real aircraft, it looks like the front of the wind screen was chopped off. Somehow the dimensions of the canopy were distorted on the original kit and the new kit. If they would remove .040 inch from the pilot’s third side glass and then add .040 inch to the length of the wind screen this would have a twofold effect. It would lower the front frame of the windscreen to match the fuselage and also lengthen the armored glass area to closer match the size of the gunners glass. Dave You analysis is generally correct (from dimensions I have) and would require stretching the fuselage in two places like you show, plus a scratch-built canopy... The front fuselage depth is also likely a bit less as the radar cone is itself too "stocky" and, especially too blunt-pointed on the GW kit. Another point is that the front of the pilot's canopy cross-section is more rounded, pinching a bit from more "square" towards the back of the pilot's area. Gunner canopy is on the other hand too square on its rear corners: Worth looking at if re-doing the whole thing... Robertson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compressorman Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Not trying to change the subject but..... For some reason the P61 did not have ailerons as is common with most planes. It had what are called spoilerons, which "spoiled" airflow over the wing causing a loss in lift for one wing or the other. Does anyone know why the designers chose this over the more traditional ailerons? Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Great video! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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