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haneto

Great Wall Hobby 1/48 MiG-29 all new tooled

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You did see i wrote "I don't see any problem" right? Because that means i did check instructions. Not only that, but i bothered to check first shots of the kit... ;) And no, it is not true that they are usually closed on the ground. Not unless the pilot is in and the engines are running.

Now you lost me... So you say that intakes are typically open - OK, fine, I'm not an expert. But are you saying that you don't see a problem because kit parts are correct representation of the real intake ducts, or you just don't care for such things and that's why you don't consider it a problem?... I'm confused...

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But are you saying that you don't see a problem because kit parts are correct representation of the real intake ducts, or you just don't care for such things and that's why you don't consider it a problem?... I'm confused...

No no, you *are* correct on that they are not correctly represented in the kit, it is a fair point. On the real plane it obviously does go from rectangular to overall round shape. I do care about shapes and accuracy. But with the engine so far in, i am just not sure how noticeable it would be in real life on the built kit. Hence why i am not convinced it is an actual problem.

Edited by Berkut

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No no, you *are* correct on that they are not correctly represented in the kit, it is a fair point. On the real plane it obviously does go from rectangular to overall round shape. I do care about shapes and accuracy. But with the engine so far in, i am just not sure how noticeable it would be in real life on the built kit. Hence why i am not convinced it is an actual problem.

Oh, OK, I see. Thanks for the explanation. I agree that in the real jet it's hard to see much inside intakes, but unfortunately if you paint the inside of model intakes white, everything inside becomes painfully visible... The light works differently in scale. Anyway, it's certainly not going to stop me from getting two kits - one to replace my Academy kit built as early Polish jet and the other to make 2012 version with Caracal decals :)

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To be fair, few kits in 1/48 and smaller have any intake ducting at all. Most have an opening that either leads to a view blocking wall or to the big empty interior, where there may or may not be an intake face.

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To be fair, few kits in 1/48 and smaller have any intake ducting at all. Most have an opening that either leads to a view blocking wall or to the big empty interior, where there may or may not be an intake face.

In general, you're absolutely right. But how many 1/48 kits released in the last couple of years didn't have intake ducts? These days most of them do have them. This kit otherwise seems to be state of the art - that's why this omission is more noticeable. I guess i will build my first kit with intake covers and maybe some aftermarket ducts will appear before I start the second one (knowing my building pace it should be around 2045...)

Edited by Vodnik

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More importantly on the subject of MiG-29 intakes the FOD doors are always closed on the ground anyway, so outside of the initial lip of the intake, very little of the trunking is visible - UNLESS it's under service. Yes there are the three mesh vents on the door, but unless somebody is SUPER determined and wants to shine a light through the vents, the interior of the intake trunk just isn't going to matter on this kit AT ALL!

Just my take!

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More importantly on the subject of MiG-29 intakes the FOD doors are always closed on the ground anyway, so outside of the initial lip of the intake, very little of the trunking is visible - UNLESS it's under service.

Vodnik and Berkut are right AFAIK.

http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo09/photos/photo81.html

http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo06/photos/photo5.html

The doors could be closed though. Fire-fighting drill: http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo08/photos/photo7.html

If the doors were usually closed, how come FOD blanks would be put during airshows like here ?

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Vodnik and Berkut are right AFAIK.

http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo09/photos/photo81.html

http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo06/photos/photo5.html

The doors could be closed though. Fire-fighting drill: http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo08/photos/photo7.html

If the doors were usually closed, how come FOD blanks would be put during airshows like here ?

Sorry, but what is the most comon? Closed or open doors?

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Sorry, but what is the most comon? Closed or open doors?

Open doors with or without FOD covers. Closed doors is when the aircraft is on the ground and that the engines are running usually.

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The intake “FOD doors†are in open state when the aircraft is parking / systems are off / stored / not under power / prepared for the next mission / while serviced / under maintenance. . . This is in 98% of cases when the aircraft is on the ground!

As with all Russian (or aircraft of any manufacture) appropriate protection covers are provided by the manufacturer for all intakes (big or small), pitots, fragile parts, exhausts . . . to avoid damage / foreign object’s (insects / animals) getting inside the aircraft/engines/instruments. In accordance with this protection covers are part of the ground support set for the MiG-29 including a big metal intake cover (painted red with black seals on its edges) for the main intakes but also an intake cover for the auxiliary intakes on top of the LEX. The second serves also as a walk mat for the ground personal during maintenance. An important note is that all covers belong to a particular aircraft and in accordance marked, they have the a/c number painted on them and in most cases also if it is for the left or the right side. Somewhere I had a photo of a Luftwaffe MiG-29 with a unit emblem painted on its covers (if I remember right). But also remember if you have the cover installed then the ground crew also adds all the other covers which are appropriate for the aircraft. Most probably you will also have amongst others the engine exhaust covers fitted too, so you loose all the lovely detail inside . . . :(

It is very unfortunate that in most cases modelers don’t care too much for such details and I see at competitions aircraft fully armed (with no RBF and safety pins), no covers and undergoing major maintenance on the tarmac with almost all systems open or removed. Highly unrealistic and un authentic!!! :bandhead2: But this is only a personal note from me.

In Hungarian service, at Kecskemet AFB the metal intake covers were replaced in time with canvas covers (for us modelers far easier to reproduce). I am sure the Polish aircraft were also delivered with all the covers so if you feel there is a problem with the intakes you can add the covers (I think I have seen an aftermarket intake cover for the MiG-29).

As always check your references and look at as many as possible photos of the real thing in planning your kit.

As to the automatic “FOD doors†on the intakes they come down as the engines are started, one by one. If you want to be authentic with your kit, here you will have to open the top intakes (provided in the GWH kit both open and closed), add the ground power connection, ground crew communication lead (under the nose), wheel chocks, have the pilot in the cockpit . . .

Yes, it is also possible to have the “FOD doors†in ‘down’ position with engine not running, during maintenance but it is very rare and that is another story.

Best regards

Gabor

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First of all please be kindly noticed that I'm NOT an employee of G.W.H., but just a friend of the boss.

I sometimes give my personal advice and some reference directly or indirectly(from many other modelling friends all over the world) help to them, and that's all.

All your feedbacks including the windshield angle issue have been read by our development staff.

So please feel free to ask for anything.

It is the first modern jet kit for G.W.H. staff and as you can see, it's a quite complicated one even with full installable engines.

The maker needs to learn step by step, too.

Cheers,

Yufei

You did say ask anything? So can you talk your friend into a 1/48 Voodoo? It would be a hot seller..

I love the looks of the Mig-29 kit, I can't wait to get one. I love Great Wall kits, I have all their 1/48 aircraft.

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No no, you *are* correct on that they are not correctly represented in the kit, it is a fair point. On the real plane it obviously does go from rectangular to overall round shape. I do care about shapes and accuracy. But with the engine so far in, i am just not sure how noticeable it would be in real life on the built kit. Hence why i am not convinced it is an actual problem.

At a closer look on Part B3, the lower half of the fuselage you will find the top part of the air intake going from rectangular to circle all the way to the engine front. The one part where you can have an issue is the lower half of the intake duct, it is part of the D8-D14 and D9-D15 assemblies that is the intake shell. What will be visible of its inside is a question. Yes it would have been better to have a separate "tube" for the intakes but then again you have to take into acount that this is a plastic kit, a scale reproduction of the original. But unfortunately due to the injection moulding technology you cannot have a perfect scale downscaling of the original. There will have to be a "wall" thickness for the plastic parts. So a perfect scale reproduction of the intake outer walls and the intake "tube" would simply not fit into the same place/side by side. I think Haneto earlier explained that the engine inside the aircraft had to be slightly decreased in diameter to actually fit into the fuselage and also to have the engine bay covers (Parts C16 and C17) fit over them. The slight decrease in engine diameter will not be seen if you look into the intake and the afterburner section is per scale replica so there is no problem. The bonus is that you can show the aircraft with the engine covers off or you can have the engine on the separate stand (sprue G) standing next to the aircraft and with covers on intake and exhaust no one will notice that you did not put and engine inside one of the intakes!

Best regards

Gabor

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The doors could be closed though. Fire-fighting drill: http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/TYPE/MiG-29%20base/SERIAL/MiG29BIDNo08/photos/photo7.html

Its not a fire-fighting drill but the '08' has just returned from a mission and as on many other occassions the brakes had to be cooled with some help from the firefighters. This immediately after landing in the "Zone" of Kecskemet AFB and this is why the intake FOD doors are still closed.

Best regards

Gabor

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Its not a fire-fighting drill but the '08' has just returned from a mission and as on many other occassions the brakes had to be cooled with some help from the firefighters. This immediately after landing in the "Zone" of Kecskemet AFB and this is why the intake FOD doors are still closed.

Thank you for info Gabor. The fact that there was someone there to take the photos is a bit surprising to me. Anyway the link was provided as an exception to the regular intake door position.

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Thank you for info Gabor. The fact that there was someone there to take the photos is a bit surprising to me. Anyway the link was provided as an exception to the regular intake door position.

The aircraft is still "active" so it is not surprising that the doors are still closed after landing. Cooling the brakes was a regular thing so there is nothing surprising in that too. Have seen it several times too, nothing unusual. Have to have a look around, could have photos of it too, just never thought it was so important. In the summer on the tarmac at Kecskemet it can get very hot indeed! Hungarian summers are hotter than in the surranding countries due to its geographic location.

Best reagards

Gabor

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There is already a release date for the kit?

Hobbyeasy told me only in February.

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There is already a release date for the kit?

Hobbyeasy told me only in February.

It is out in Japan already.

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The aircraft is still "active" so it is not surprising that the doors are still closed after landing. Cooling the brakes was a regular thing so there is nothing surprising in that too. Have seen it several times too, nothing unusual. Have to have a look around, could have photos of it too, just never thought it was so important. In the summer on the tarmac at Kecskemet it can get very hot indeed! Hungarian summers are hotter than in the surranding countries due to its geographic location.

Best reagards

Gabor

Ya-Gabor,

did you already had the chance to see my PM concerning the Mig-17PF seat?

Michel

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Ya-Gabor,

did you already had the chance to see my PM concerning the Mig-17PF seat?

Michel

Sorry I havent seen it. Will do.

Best regards

Gabor

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Its not a fire-fighting drill but the '08' has just returned from a mission and as on many other occassions the brakes had to be cooled with some help from the firefighters. This immediately after landing in the "Zone" of Kecskemet AFB and this is why the intake FOD doors are still closed.

Best regards

Gabor

Gabor,

Did you serve or are you serving in an Eastern Airforce?

I know for certain cooling of hot brakes in western airforces with water is not a safe practice and is not permitted in our procedures. Rapid cooling with water can cause an explosion hazard. A mist isn’t even recommended. As you know, CO2 is also dangerous and not recommended at all as the heat of a magnesium fire will tear the carbon and oxygen atoms apart and also cause an explosion hazard. The only safe method for a magnesium brake fire is a class d dry chemical extinguisher or foam.

The best way to cool hot brakes is with airflow.

I know I once saw a ground crew member on a Russian made transport throw a bucket of water on the brakes; it scared the heck out of me.

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It is out in Japan already.

I ordered one from Dragon USA, I hope I get it soon. They say a mid November release.

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Gabor,

Did you serve or are you serving in an Eastern Airforce?

I know for certain cooling of hot brakes in western airforces with water is not a safe practice and is not permitted in our procedures. Rapid cooling with water can cause an explosion hazard. A mist isn’t even recommended. As you know, CO2 is also dangerous and not recommended at all as the heat of a magnesium fire will tear the carbon and oxygen atoms apart and also cause an explosion hazard. The only safe method for a magnesium brake fire is a class d dry chemical extinguisher or foam.

The best way to cool hot brakes is with airflow.

I know I once saw a ground crew member on a Russian made transport throw a bucket of water on the brakes; it scared the heck out of me.

Nope, I am not serving. But I am / I was around a lot.

Well, the cooling is there for you on the photos, I have seen it myself too. Its not fire extingusing but only cooling the brakes. Some of the Russian equipment can take far more punishment that the Western equivalents, they have a different approach to a lot of designs, not only aircraft. A far wider margin is left for mistakes / unconventional use / mishandling, for servicing in harsher conditions. . . Take a look at the engine for the Su-25, in a war situation it can take a very wide variaty of fuels that you would never associate with aircraft.

My guess is that they are not doing the brake cooling practice with the Gripens now.

Best regards

Gabor

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My guess is that they are not doing the brake cooling practice with the Gripens now.

When they fly with them :-)

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Well, the cooling is there for you on the photos, I have seen it myself too. Its not fire extingusing but only cooling the brakes. Some of the Russian equipment can take far more punishment that the Western equivalents, they have a different approach to a lot of designs, not only aircraft. A far wider margin is left for mistakes / unconventional use / mishandling, for servicing in harsher conditions.

My guess is that they are not doing the brake cooling practice with the Gripens now.

Best regards

Gabor

Hi Gabor, it has nothing to do with equipment design, it has to do with science. The extreme cooling can cause an explosive fracture in the brake assembly. My guess is they were rinsing away a fuel leak or spill.

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Sorry I havent seen it. Will do.

Best regards

Gabor

Thanks. :cheers:

If you didn't receive it somehow just let me know.

I'll send you then another one.

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