Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I know there is a lot of F4U experts out there so i want to ask a question (which I think I already know the answer to). Hasegawa has a BEAUTIFUL late model corsair in the F4u-5/6/AU-1 series. There is only one problem which I THINK is wrong with the kit. This is where you experts come in. The major problem which I am finding is the section behind the canopy. This area makes the kit look very slender in the vertical measurement. As far as I have been able to research, the little extra hump behind the pilots head was added to the top of the original shape of the turtle deck, and than a new shape canopy was installed which had a less pronounced blister because that shape was taken up by the added hump. On the Hasegawa kit, the fuselage was cut down and than the blister was added to bring the total height to the original dimension. Am I right in my deduction or am I all wet. I believe (not sure) but Minicraft might have gotten it right on theirs (disregarding the other deficiencies). Please help with any knowledge. I do not seam to have any drawings in my collection accurate enough to do a proper comparison and I do not trust any of the Japanese drawings in the FAOW series which I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwright142 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'll post this in my F4U Corsair Information forum to see if I can get you some answers. http://f4ucorsair.freeforums.org Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hay--- That's a great place. I will have to join that site. I have plans of building these birds in 1/48(a few of them), 1/16 (to hang from my sealing) 1/12 RC electric and 1/6 for a multi-cylinder 4-stroke (2.4c.i.). I want to build all the major variants in 1/48 and than a scattering of the -4, -5, & AU-1. The 1/6 will be a -4 with the markings for FMFA-235 which is my original squadron and I will always consider my real home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 I just joined up. I have some really nice pictures of Dr. Norman Lewis F4U-4 in areal view taken from a PV-2 while I was crewing it. I will post them at some time on your sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I know there is a lot of F4U experts out there so i want to ask a question (which I think I already know the answer to). Hasegawa has a BEAUTIFUL late model corsair in the F4u-5/6/AU-1 series. There is only one problem which I THINK is wrong with the kit. This is where you experts come in. The major problem which I am finding is the section behind the canopy. This area makes the kit look very slender in the vertical measurement. As far as I have been able to research, the little extra hump behind the pilots head was added to the top of the original shape of the turtle deck, and than a new shape canopy was installed which had a less pronounced blister because that shape was taken up by the added hump. On the Hasegawa kit, the fuselage was cut down and than the blister was added to bring the total height to the original dimension. Am I right in my deduction or am I all wet. I believe (not sure) but Minicraft might have gotten it right on theirs (disregarding the other deficiencies). Please help with any knowledge. I do not seam to have any drawings in my collection accurate enough to do a proper comparison and I do not trust any of the Japanese drawings in the FAOW series which I have. FWIW: The Tamiya F4U-1A/D measures 1.481" in depth at the aft upper edge of the closed canopy. The Hasegawa F4U-4 measures 1.488" at the same point. The Hasegawa AU-1 measures 1.466" at the same point. If we accept that the Tamiya F4U-1A/D and Hase F4U-4 are dimensionally accurate, the Hasegawa F4U-5 series is a bit shallow. Not enough that I'm going to butcher a kit trying to fix it, as it isn't obvious to my eye the way it is in the Italeri 1/72 late Corsair kits, and having the F4U-4 sitting next to the F4U-5 doesn't call attention to it to me. I had to put a caliper on it to know. if you want to play plastic surgeon, that's up to you but I'm OK with it as-is (and I've been known to be somewhat picky about U-birds now and then). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 FWIW: The Tamiya F4U-1A/D measures 1.481" in depth at the aft upper edge of the closed canopy. The Hasegawa F4U-4 measures 1.488" at the same point. The Hasegawa AU-1 measures 1.466" at the same point. If we accept that the Tamiya F4U-1A/D and Hase F4U-4 are dimensionally accurate, the Hasegawa F4U-5 series is a bit shallow. Not enough that I'm going to butcher a kit trying to fix it, as it isn't obvious to my eye the way it is in the Italeri 1/72 late Corsair kits, and having the F4U-4 sitting next to the F4U-5 doesn't call attention to it to me. I had to put a caliper on it to know. if you want to play plastic surgeon, that's up to you but I'm OK with it as-is (and I've been known to be somewhat picky about U-birds now and then). The -5 and later and AU-1 should actually be taller than the -4 and earlier by, my guess is, about 4-6 scale inches, not smaller. The aft deck line should be the same on ALL production corsairs. This is what I am actually attempting to determine but am virtually certain of. This would mean that the aft deck should be cut off and raised by a minimum of .1 inches. That is a lot. This is if the upper addition is ONLY 4". If it is 6 than it will have to be raised by a whole 1/8". This obviously is in 1/48 scale. I just ordered an Academy F4U-5 to make a comparison to the other kits. I paid only $8 including shipping so it is a easy comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
don f Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If we accept that the Tamiya F4U-1A/D and Hase F4U-4 are dimensionally accurate, the Hasegawa F4U-5 series is a bit shallow.............if you want to play plastic surgeon, that's up to you but I'm OK with it as-is (and I've been known to be somewhat picky about U-birds now and then). Hi Joe, The Vought published data regarding improvements made to the F4U-5 v. the F4U-4 aircraft states the overturn line of the F4U-5 was raised about 2 inches by the addition of a steel casting under the sheet metal fairing on the turtledeck behind the sliding canopy. This modification was previously incorporated (by MCR-168) on late model F4U-4 aircraft. Sorry I don't have a copy. That 2" is about 0.040" in 1/48 scale. If you line up the Tamiya F4U-1A and Hasegawa F4U-5 (take your pick of Hasegawa late model Corsair kits) fuselage halves, the profile of the Hasegawa kits turtledeck is not the same as the Tamiya kit, the Hasegawa kit being not as "tall" as the Tamiya kit. Maybe that's the source of the observation about the Hasegawa kits being "off". The assumption being made is that the shape of the fuselage aft of the firewall (Sta. 91.75) is the same on all models of the F4U. Which kit is correct? I don't know. We'll need definitive factory drawings and even those may not settle the argument about who's right. A study of the F4U-5 parts manual indicates that the entire F4U-5 turtledeck assembly was not interchangeable with that of the F4U-4. Same applies to the major structural components of the fuselage aft of the cockpit. This is consistent with the structural modification made to the F4U-5 tail surfaces and fuselage carry-through structure. The major parts of the F4U-5 windscreen, including the bullet resistant glass, is shown as interchangeable with the F4U-4. The structural framing and some parts of the sliding portion are also listed as interchangeable with the F4U-4, but not the clear part. Interesting that this implies that the clear part of the F4U-5 sliding section was not the same as the late model F4U-4's. Some have argued that the F4U-5 sliding canopy has a different shape than the late model F4U-4's, the -5 sliding canopy being more of a bubble shape to allow the pilot more forward visibility. Another mystery. According to Vought, the engine section of the F4U-5 is about 10 inches longer than the F4U-4. Despite the extra length, refairng of the engine section to accommodate the 3 degree droop of the engine allowed the F4U-5 to have the same vision as the F4U-4B, a 123 mils lead. One of my long term projects is the 1/48 Hasegawa AU-1. I've not made the effort to fix the shape of the turtledeck as this part of the fuselage is somewhat hidden under the open canopy. There are other fixes, that make the AU-1, that are more important to me. Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The -5 and later and AU-1 should actually be taller than the -4 and earlier by, my guess is, about 4-6 scale inches, not smaller. The aft deck line should be the same on ALL production corsairs. This is what I am actually attempting to determine but am virtually certain of. This would mean that the aft deck should be cut off and raised by a minimum of .1 inches. That is a lot. This is if the upper addition is ONLY 4". If it is 6 than it will have to be raised by a whole 1/8". This obviously is in 1/48 scale. I just ordered an Academy F4U-5 to make a comparison to the other kits. I paid only $8 including shipping so it is a easy comparison. Like I said, it is not readily noticeable to me with a -4 and a -5 sitting side-by-side on my shelf. If you want to spend the time and effort to correct it, by all means do so. Hi Joe, The Vought published data regarding improvements made to the F4U-5 v. the F4U-4 aircraft states the overturn line of the F4U-5 was raised about 2 inches by the addition of a steel casting under the sheet metal fairing on the turtledeck behind the sliding canopy. This modification was previously incorporated (by MCR-168) on late model F4U-4 aircraft. Sorry I don't have a copy. That 2" is about 0.040" in 1/48 scale. If you line up the Tamiya F4U-1A and Hasegawa F4U-5 (take your pick of Hasegawa late model Corsair kits) fuselage halves, the profile of the Hasegawa kits turtledeck is not the same as the Tamiya kit, the Hasegawa kit being not as "tall" as the Tamiya kit. Maybe that's the source of the observation about the Hasegawa kits being "off". The assumption being made is that the shape of the fuselage aft of the firewall (Sta. 91.75) is the same on all models of the F4U. Which kit is correct? I don't know. We'll need definitive factory drawings and even those may not settle the argument about who's right. A study of the F4U-5 parts manual indicates that the entire F4U-5 turtledeck assembly was not interchangeable with that of the F4U-4. Same applies to the major structural components of the fuselage aft of the cockpit. This is consistent with the structural modification made to the F4U-5 tail surfaces and fuselage carry-through structure. The major parts of the F4U-5 windscreen, including the bullet resistant glass, is shown as interchangeable with the F4U-4. The structural framing and some parts of the sliding portion are also listed as interchangeable with the F4U-4, but not the clear part. Interesting that this implies that the clear part of the F4U-5 sliding section was not the same as the late model F4U-4's. Some have argued that the F4U-5 sliding canopy has a different shape than the late model F4U-4's, the -5 sliding canopy being more of a bubble shape to allow the pilot more forward visibility. Another mystery. According to Vought, the engine section of the F4U-5 is about 10 inches longer than the F4U-4. Despite the extra length, refairng of the engine section to accommodate the 3 degree droop of the engine allowed the F4U-5 to have the same vision as the F4U-4B, a 123 mils lead. One of my long term projects is the 1/48 Hasegawa AU-1. I've not made the effort to fix the shape of the turtledeck as this part of the fuselage is somewhat hidden under the open canopy. There are other fixes, that make the AU-1, that are more important to me. Don I don't know for certain which kit is correct, or if any is correct. One would think that the depth of the fuselage itself would not change. If the Tamiya and Hasegawa -4 are correct, then the Hase -5 series should measure in at the about 1.52 to 1.53 inches. I can't see the difference without putting calipers on the fuselages, but then I can't see a 1mm difference in Spitfire fuselage length or depth either. I, for one, can live with the difference, and am not about to scrap my collection of Tamiya and Hasegawa Corsairs on the display shelves over this! Joe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwright142 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I just joined up. I have some really nice pictures of Dr. Norman Lewis F4U-4 in areal view taken from a PV-2 while I was crewing it. I will post them at some time on your sight. Post away! Your account has been activated. We would love to see your pics! My goal is to have a one stop information forum for anyone needing Corsair info. My apologies to the ARC community the my shameless plug ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Post away! Your account has been activated. We would love to see your pics! My goal is to have a one stop information forum for anyone needing Corsair info. My apologies to the ARC community the my shameless plug ;) As for one, any resource is a good resource. It is not like you are charging anything for the service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
don f Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I don't know for certain which kit is correct, or if any is correct. One would think that the depth of the fuselage itself would not change. If the Tamiya and Hasegawa -4 are correct, then the Hase -5 series should measure in at the about 1.52 to 1.53 inches. Joe Here's the particulars for the F4U-5 fuselage published in the "Dash-2": 1-8. FUSELAGE a. Width (maximum)................................. 53.23 in. b. Height - exclusive of canopy (maximum).......... 69.44 in. c. Length (without engine mount)................... 24 ft. 1 in. d. Length (with engine mount)...................... 29 ft. 1-1/2 in. If we assume that the maximum depth of the fuselage is at the bulkhead at the rear of the cockpit, Sta. 186, speculating, the depth of the fuselage should be about 1.45" in 1/48 scale. I measure the Hasegawa fuselage at this point at about 1.49". Like you, I am not vexed about this. The plastic surgery would not be difficult, if desired. I'm sure that somebody will produce the fuselage ordinates and provide a definitive answer. Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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