Decal silvering after flat coat??

[scapilot]

So I've been noticing that when I throw a flat coat on after a project is complete that it seems to bring out some serious silvering issues with the decals. I don't understand. It's kind of hit or miss. I'll lay down a gloss coat. Let it cure. Put down the decals, and press the excess out like I've always done. Apply another gloss coat, or at least brush future over the decals once down to ensure they're sealed. And then when it's all said and done, I'll throw down the flat coat. I've tried Testors flat coat on two planes, and have even used Krylon flat clear, and no matter what. It seems like as soon as it starts to cure, then bad silvering starts to appear, seems more so on the smaller decals, like 'no walk' or 'no step' striping lines that go along wings and other smaller, thin decals like that. I don't understand what's causing this, but it takes a plane that looks great one minute, and turns it into a PITA within just a few short sprays.

[scapilot]

Thanks for the reply. Kinda frustrating, I had the initial gloss coat looking great. The plane almost looked wet, and shiny. I use Micro Sol on decals that I worry about having issues with just as a precaution, and then to still have it go rogue on me is a bummer.

[Drifterdon]

As a rule, I always use decal setting solution no matter how much gloss coat I apply. I brush it right onto the model and then float the decal into position on the setting solution, usuall micro sol. Once the decal is in place, I brush on more micro sol to make sure the decal begins the disolving process. DO NOT TOUCH at this point. One thing I found was the decal needs to sit horizontal on the surface of the model (needs to be like a table top) so the decal has time to disolve and then set into the paint and surface details of the model. Otherwise the setting solution just runs out from under the decal and you don't get good adhesion. If I get a real stubborn decal, I'll slice through it with a new #11 Xacto blade and paint more setting solution to help snuggle the decal down. When all the decalling is done, I wash the surface of the model off real good to remove any residue and then seal the decals and paint with whatever clear is called for once dry. If I find any silvering, I repeat the xacto slicing setting solution drill until it's either fixed or I give up the fight and call it good enough.

Hope this helps,

Don

Edited October 30, 2012 by Drifterdon

[J-10]

Another option is to brush future onto the area you want to decal, apply the decal over the freshly brushed on future, press it down and blot out the excess future. Of course you have to make sure there are no air bubbles trapped underneath. Now for me after decaling I immediately airbrush a future coat to blend the excess future.

[HistnScale]

A simple method of checking for silvering before putting on the final coat is put a layer of water over the decal and look at it from several angles under a good light. The trapped air under the decal will show up just like it will under your finish coat. If you find silvering it is an easy fix to prick the areas with a needle and apply more decal setting solution until the silvering is gone.

HTH,

Dave

[scapilot]

All great ideas. Thanks a lot. I did try the dab of future idea prior to, because I've read some places that it helps prevent silvering by sticking the decal in place while drying. Seems like even that was kind of hit and miss. May have something to do with decals, because again...it's not every model that I build. Some are really sweet, and some are....well, like this. lol. I'll give a few more tries and see what comes of it.

Thanks again.

[scapilot]

While the thought is still in my head. What is good to thin Testors gloss and flat coats??? That stuff comes out, and it seems like I have to go back and brush off tons of lint like substance and dust. Surely that's not the norm. I figure it just has something to do with the overall thickness of the stuff.

[Netz]

Another option is to brush future onto the area you want to decal, apply the decal over the freshly brushed on future, press it down and blot out the excess future. Of course you have to make sure there are no air bubbles trapped underneath. Now for me after decaling I immediately airbrush a future coat to blend the excess future.

The trick with using Future is to dilute it, if you go full strength you will have a thick layer to deal with, if you dilute it, it will flow and level out much better, I use a small cough syrup size cup, 1/2 to 3/4 full of water, and just a squeeze of Future into it,just so you can see it swirl around in the cup, no more than 1/4 to volume, that's all you need to set the decal, it will pull a decal into a panel line, but will need a softener to conform over a raised detail (nut/bolt head, hinge) I have tested this over a full flat surface and it works.

Curt

[Snegley]

I use only Solve-A-Set for a decal setting solution as I find the Micro-Sol a bit weak for softening the decal. Also alot of the water slide decals made today lose some of the adhesion quality in the soaking process which can lead to silvering. To fix this problem I add some Elmers white glue to the setting solution to add some adhesion back to the decal after its applied to the model. You don't need much but I've found it to help alleviate the silvering before the final finish is applied.

I'm not a big fan of applying Future as a gloss coat before applying decals as I find it whitens with the application of prolonged moisture. You might want to try using some Testors Glosscoat thinned about 50/50 with lacquer thinner as your basecoat before decals. It dries hard to the touch and leaves a nice glossy finish for decals. When all the decals are applied I wash the model down to remove any decal adhesive and tack cloth the model to remove any dust and lint then apply more Glosscoat till the decals blend into the surface. Hope this might help!

[dryguy]

Ahhh decals, you love them you hate them!!

My findings so far is thus;

-Using future as a decal adhesive pretty much guarantees against silvering, but it has a few disadvantages;

(i) you have to be really fast with securing the decal in place as future dries very quicky. Once the future goes sticky the decal is pretty much locked in.

(ii) whilst being an excellent adhesive and a guarantee against silvering, it does not 'melt' the decal at all, thus you could still have issues of it not conforming to the surface if the surface is curved in two directions. Also, you will need a really thick layer of clear coat once done in order to hide the edge of the decal and make them disappear. An exception is fightertown decals; they are the best, thinnest I have ever used.

I used to use future as a decal adhesive but switched to Mr Mark softer and setter, but you have to be carefull as you can easily burn a hole through some of the more delicate decals.

I still use future (dried/cured)as a gloss coat BEFORE puuting the decals on. Some people have issues with the future going cloudy after applying the decal setting solution. In my experience this goes away after a while. If not, another coat of future and you are done. I hope this is helpfull.

[USMC6094]

Back before I got out of the building game, I figured out a way to avoid that exact problem, I'd lay down successive light coats of Testors Gloss coat, almost a mist coat and put down about a half dozen or more coats of it. On armor I would lay down more, but never to the point of runs or drips, then apply the markings and Solvaset them down, then dull coat once theyve dried.

[seawinder]

While the thought is still in my head. What is good to thin Testors gloss and flat coats??? That stuff comes out, and it seems like I have to go back and brush off tons of lint like substance and dust. Surely that's not the norm. I figure it just has something to do with the overall thickness of the stuff.

You need lacquer thinner for the Testors overcoats. Also, you may be able to reduce silvering even after applying flat coat by pricking the offending areas and applying more MicroSol or Solvaset.

Pip Moss

[scapilot]

All very great ideas, and ones that I haven't heard prior to this. Thanks for all your help. I did pick up some lacquer thinner today at wal-mart, as I've been having issues with alclad clogging my airbrush as well by not using it. I don't know what it is about the Pale Burnt Metal in their line but it flakes really had, and all that stuff gets into the internal workings of my paint cup and runs some serious havoc. Hopefully now, this won't be an issue any longer. Thank you all again for the tips on this. I look forward to trying this out.

[Netz]

My findings so far is thus;

-Using future as a decal adhesive pretty much guarantees against silvering, but it has a few disadvantages;

(i) you have to be really fast with securing the decal in place as future dries very quicky. Once the future goes sticky the decal is pretty much locked in.

(ii) whilst being an excellent adhesive and a guarantee against silvering, it does not 'melt' the decal at all, thus you could still have issues of it not conforming to the surface if the surface is curved in two directions. Also, you will need a really thick layer of clear coat once done in order to hide the edge of the decal and make them disappear. An exception is fightertown decals; they are the best, thinnest I have ever used.

I used to use future as a decal adhesive but switched to Mr Mark softer and setter, but you have to be carefull as you can easily burn a hole through some of the more delicate decals.

(i) If you dilute it you will have a longer working time, also while working the decal and it becomes hard to move, just dip your brush in water and add a little bit under the decal it will move, I used this on my Monogram P-40 with kit decals hand had no problems.

(ii) you will need a softener to melt over large details, but Future will suck a decal into a panel line, as for the thickness, again if you dilute it you will not have the thick layer of Future to deal with, you can also wipe down the edges of the decal with the same water brush your using to set down the edge of the decal.

The trick with using Future is to dilute it, if you go full strength you will have a thick layer to deal with, if you dilute it, it will flow and level out much better, I use a small cough syrup size cup, 1/2 to 3/4 full of water, and just a squeeze of Future into it,just so you can see it swirl around in the cup, no more than 1/4 to volume, that's all you need to set the decal, it will pull a decal into a panel line, but will need a softener to conform over a raised detail (nut/bolt head, hinge) I have tested this over a full flat surface and it works.

Curt

I don't know what it is about the Pale Burnt Metal in their line but it flakes really had, and all that stuff gets into the internal workings of my paint cup and runs some serious havoc.

When you clean any metallic from your brush, you should 1st pour in your Lacquer Thinner into the cup, then you will notice the metallic floating on top, take a paper towel and skim that off the top, this will remove %80-%90 of the metallic paint making it much easier to clean out, then as a added precaution, you could run some old paint through the gun and clean that out, this will take the metallic with it (kinda of a pia but worth it if you don't want to ruin your next paint job)

Curt

[scapilot]

(i) If you dilute it you will have a longer working time, also while working the decal and it becomes hard to move, just dip your brush in water and add a little bit under the decal it will move, I used this on my Monogram P-40 with kit decals hand had no problems.

(ii) you will need a softener to melt over large details, but Future will suck a decal into a panel line, as for the thickness, again if you dilute it you will not have the thick layer of Future to deal with, you can also wipe down the edges of the decal with the same water brush your using to set down the edge of the decal.

When you clean any metallic from your brush, you should 1st pour in your Lacquer Thinner into the cup, then you will notice the metallic floating on top, take a paper towel and skim that off the top, this will remove %80-%90 of the metallic paint making it much easier to clean out, then as a added precaution, you could run some old paint through the gun and clean that out, this will take the metallic with it (kinda of a pia but worth it if you don't want to ruin your next paint job)

Curt

That's an awesome suggestion. I learn much from you folks. Thanks a lot.

[pminer]

I use only Solve-A-Set for a decal setting solution as I find the Micro-Sol a bit weak for softening the decal. Also alot of the water slide decals made today lose some of the adhesion quality in the soaking process which can lead to silvering. To fix this problem I add some Elmers white glue to the setting solution to add some adhesion back to the decal after its applied to the model. You don't need much but I've found it to help alleviate the silvering before the final finish is applied.

I'm not a big fan of applying Future as a gloss coat before applying decals as I find it whitens with the application of prolonged moisture. You might want to try using some Testors Glosscoat thinned about 50/50 with lacquer thinner as your basecoat before decals. It dries hard to the touch and leaves a nice glossy finish for decals. When all the decals are applied I wash the model down to remove any decal adhesive and tack cloth the model to remove any dust and lint then apply more Glosscoat till the decals blend into the surface. Hope this might help!

AWESOME topic! Thanks guys...