Jinxter13 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Trying to influence politics in another country is nothing new numerous such acts in many guises have been well chronicled in history, even using Int'l incidents to stir patriotism in ones own country has led to some most vile acts in the history of mankind, but this has dire and troublesome overtones for those who take an incident of this kind seriously. US Drone attack. What has me concerned is the timing of the attempt/attack more than the act itself, and what could Iran have been trying to gain from such action. Edited November 9, 2012 by #1 Greywolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Trying to influence politics in another country is nothing new numerous such acts in many guises have been well chronicled in history, even using Int'l incidents to stir patriotism in ones own country has led to some most vile acts in the history of mankind, but this has dire and troublesome overtones for those who take an incident of this kind seriously. US Drone attack. What has me concerned is the timing of the attempt/attack more than the act itself, and what could Iran have been trying to gain from such action. or the timing of the release of this information...but that's a thought/dicussion for another site, far, far away Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkey Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 They probably didn't want a drone near Iran, so they shot at it. Open and close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Child, please. In other news "Navy SEALs selling girl scout cookies in Pakistan stumble across Bin Laden, drown in his own swimming pool. Pronounced dead despite all SEAL attempts to save him." Edited November 9, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Iran is just doing what North Korea has done for years... do something to provoke some kind of response not long after a major election. We used to go through stuff like this with Pyongyang all the time in the 1970s and 80s (not quite so much recently, but every once in awhile). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The drone was "conducting routine maritime surveillance, watching ships," the official said - also, I'm a Dutchman. Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChippyWho Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There were TWO Iranian jets, and NEITHER managed to get a hit...! Back to class, guys -or, like Jay said, this was just a piece of 'timely' theatre? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
streetstream Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There were TWO Iranian jets, and NEITHER managed to get a hit...! Back to class, guys -or, like Jay said, this was just a piece of 'timely' theatre? Trust me, if they didn't hit it, it is because they didn't want to and were either giving warning shots, or that the event never happend. I'm betting on the 2nd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flyingfortress Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Trust me, if they didn't hit it, it is because they didn't want to and were either giving warning shots, or that the event never happend. I'm betting on the 2nd. An Iranian version of the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) The drone was "conducting routine maritime surveillance, watching ships," the official said - also, I'm a Dutchman. Vince Come on Vince, whats so hard to believe? I think these Iranian pilots really overcame the odds, by finding the one "innocent" drone from Libya all the way to Pakistan. These pilots need to buy a lotto ticket with that kind of luck. An Iranian version of the Gulf of Tonkin incident? At this point us going to war over an expendable machine, makes sense. Its the domino effect really, Next thing its your coffee maker... And by the time they come for your fax machine its too late. Never forget. How the US sees its drones: How the Mid East sees the drones: Edited November 9, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 They probably didn't want a drone near Iran, so they shot at it. Open and close. Really? It was completely illegal but whatever... We've got the right to fly anything we want, anytime we want as long as we stay > 12 miles out. Conversely, the Iranians have the right to buzz our ships in the gulf and exercise it often. However, that doesn't give either side the right to open fire on an aircraft, manned or unmanned. The only exception would be if the Predator was actually within Iranian airspace which, given those RQ-170 overflights and US actions in other countries, has to at least be considered. It certainly would not be the first time we flew a spy mission over another country, we've been doing this for 60 years. Typically if we get caught and someone gets attacked or shot down, we claim to have been in international airspace or if we have the misfortune of our spy plane going down within the country itself, usually just claim "navigational error". See again the US response to the RQ-170 loss. Assuming the US version is correct and the Predator was in international airspace the entire time, than I think this was just an Iranian attempt to stir things up. There is no way that those Su-25 pilots could have missed a slow, non-maneuvering drone. Plus, those jets can also be armed with AAM's as well. If they wanted to kill the Predator, they would have done so. My guess is that they wanted to get a limited US response. The sanctions are finally hurting Iran and causing a significant amount of discontent, which will only get worse. The best way to keep your masses from boiling over is to get them worked up again about the Great Satan. Watch for more of these incidents in the future. They don't want to cross a line and give the US an excuse for a full military response, just push things enough to keep their people focused on external issues instead of their declining economy. The US shooting down a couple of their fighters or limited strikes on a single Iranian base would be more than welcomed by the Ayatollahs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There is no way that those Su-25 pilots could have missed a slow, non-maneuvering drone. and yet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 and yet... Any yet they didn't hit it so that tells me that they never intended to shoot it down in the first place. More support for the theory that the Iranians were simply trying to provoke a limited US response. Or we could subscribe to the tin-foil hat crowd's theory that the US made all of this this up as sort of a Gulf of Tonkin incident so that we have a premise to start a major war with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Any yet they didn't hit it so that tells me that they never intended to shoot it down in the first place. More support for the theory that the Iranians were simply trying to provoke a limited US response. Or we could subscribe to the tin-foil hat crowd's theory that the US made all of this this up as sort of a Gulf of Tonkin incident so that we have a premise to start a major war with them. I just never thought they couldn't miss. Missing is always an option. I also don't think that innocent drone is innocent, and if it was its like finding the last honest politician. Edited November 9, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Drones only do what drones are told to do ... (Well, unless they malfunction ...) ;) -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 That Drone is just lucky it was a Frogfoot, because if it was a Tomcat it would have been hit 8 times directly before it hit the ground. Amiright? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 first of all the U.S. isn't in the business of causing revolutions, and that would be a pipe dream and a half. But had we been in that business, we'd have aided the Iraqi revolution for starters. Secondly; I'd doubt the Iranians were stupid enough to send SU 25 to shoot down a drone over international waters anyway. Had they been successful, there would have been F18's flying the same mission the next day, and the end results would have been ugly inside Iran. May happen anyway, and I could care less if it does happen. It's also possible that the drone was carrying somekind of ECM package that could and probably would mess with anykind of radar guided rocket. I don't think the inferred signature would be good enough for a heat seeking missiel, but might be wrong. On the otherhand they might be flying the drones to sorta tell the Iranians they'll do whatever they want to do, and what are you gonna do about it. Iran is not stupid enough to go over the line drawn in the sand, and risk something real ugly on their part. Next time that drone might be shodowed by a couple Super Bugs, and the SU-25's will become a new reef at the bottom of the ocean. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 That Drone is just lucky it was a Frogfoot, because if it was a Tomcat it would have been hit 8 times directly before it hit the ground. Amiright? had that been one Tomcat, it would have been a drasticly uneven match between him and the two Iranian SU-25's. They'd end up being trashed to the bottom of the ocean. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 had that been one Tomcat, it would have been a drasticly uneven match between him and the two Iranian SU-25's. They'd end up being trashed to the bottom of the ocean. gary Or the Frogfoot drivers would have peacefully flown home to lamb kebabs because the Tomcat would have been down for maint issues and never left the deck of the carrier. Or... what if it was a USN Superhornet flying the recon mission and Iran launched one of their F-14's? That poor SH would have ended up being trashed to the bottom of the ocean (technically not an ocean but I digress even further). See what you started TT :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Or the Frogfoot drivers would have peacefully flown home to lamb kebabs because the Tomcat would have been down for maint issues and never left the deck of the carrier. Or... what if it was a USN Superhornet flying the recon mission and Iran launched one of their F-14's? That poor SH would have ended up being trashed to the bottom of the ocean (technically not an ocean but I digress even further). See what you started TT :) We're too busy with other things: MANAMA, BAHRAIN – In a move sure to send a strong message to Iran, the US Navy has kicked off the opening stages of Operation Hawk Thunder, an expensive, pointless exercise in the Persian Gulf with no real objective, sources confirmed today.“Operation Hawk Thunder will show Iran that the US Navy maintains a strong presence in the Gulf,†Rear Admiral William DeMark said. “There is nothing the Iranians fear more than a bunch of ships doing circles in the ocean and returning to port. Ships from twelve nations will be joining us, so we won’t be the only country wasting fuel in this time of economic hardship.†Operation Hawk Thunder will consist of three parts. First, the ships from all the nations will be docked in Manama, Bahrain. Officers from each ship will tour the others, look around, and nod with respect. Second, the ships will sail in formation out into the Persian Gulf and circle around for a week. Finally, they will return to Bahrain and hold a dinner celebration for a job well done. “We’ll invite news crews onboard when the ships return to Bahrain,†DeMark said. “When they get there we’ll talk about how this exercise was a great success and helped bolster international relations, but we won’t say how. OPSEC.†“I’m sure we’ll do a war game while we’re out there,†Commander Rick Owens, Captain of USS Porter said. “Normally we split up into two teams, red and blue. We’ll sail around until we get close to another ship. At that point someone on the bridge asks if they’re good or bad, then we wonder if they’re playing. We find out when they start flashing ‘GUN’ in Morse code at us. Then we put our engines at all stop and wait until they sail away. Trust me, Iran will be terrified.†“I’m sorry, I’m not allowed to speak about Hawk Thunder,†Electrician’s Mate Second Class Sarah Waters said when asked for comment. “Yesterday two sailors were sent to mast for emailing their families where we were. The Captain takes OPSEC violations very seriously.†After speaking she tuned her radio to a local station, where a Public Affairs officer was explaining every aspect of the operation for the citizens of Bahrain. Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/11/navy-to-send-a-strong-message-to-iran-with-pointless-multinational-exercise/#ixzz2BkycK6dt Follow us: @theduffelblog on Twitter | duffelblog on Facebook Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The Duffel Blog post is all the funnier (or perhaps tragic) because that's pretty much precisely what we did 2-3 years ago. "Hey great work on OEF, guys, but before you pull into Bahrain for rest, we need you to steam around in circles and fly cyclic ops for no particular reason whatsoever." Also, the end of the article is one of those funny 'cuz it's true things: "you clowns can't say CRAP to your families, but pay no attention to the 5th Fleet PAO telling everyone with a TV or interwebs EXACTLY where you're going, when you'll be there, and what you'll be doing." Duffel Blog is pure genius. Also, am I the only one who finds the idea of warning shots on a drone kind of funny? I mean, it's not like the operators sit in a bubble (like an expensive flight simulator) with visual representation of everything surrounding their toy. All they see is whatever the camera is trained on. The fact that they know it was shot at in the first place is kind of impressive to me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Well, drones have been known to get good film of what kills them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U49n1JuWAmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) The Duffel Blog post is all the funnier (or perhaps tragic) because that's pretty much precisely what we did 2-3 years ago. "Hey great work on OEF, guys, but before you pull into Bahrain for rest, we need you to steam around in circles and fly cyclic ops for no particular reason whatsoever." Also, the end of the article is one of those funny 'cuz it's true things: "you clowns can't say CRAP to your families, but pay no attention to the 5th Fleet PAO telling everyone with a TV or interwebs EXACTLY where you're going, when you'll be there, and what you'll be doing." Duffel Blog is pure genius. Also, am I the only one who finds the idea of warning shots on a drone kind of funny? I mean, it's not like the operators sit in a bubble (like an expensive flight simulator) with visual representation of everything surrounding their toy. All they see is whatever the camera is trained on. The fact that they know it was shot at in the first place is kind of impressive to me... LOL Good point. I'm guessing at that point the UAV operator probably lit his cigar, glared, and dared the Iranians to shoot his drone down. Drones are fearless Edited November 9, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zark Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Child, please. In other news "Navy SEALs selling girl scout cookies in Pakistan stumble across Bin Laden, drown in his own swimming pool. Pronounced dead despite all SEAL attempts to save him." I am following your "comments", and I have to admit your sense of houmor is great, spot on as they say!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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