Flory Wash Staining?

[scapilot]

So I'm working on a 1:48 Su-25 from Revell, and just finished painting. I've recently invested in the micro-mesh cloths because I've heard good things about smoothing down enamel paints with these which help with a good gloss, solid decals, and weathering. Well, I'm very happy to announce that they do work very well, and I had a pretty nice shine on the plane before even reaching for the future...which also took very well with only two light coats to smooth out any imperfections. I'm building this kit for a guy who sent a sheet of Authentic Decals for the Su-25, and I don't know if I just had an older set, or what the deal was, but I struggled tremendously with these decals. I'd easily say that one of every three of them would just come apart during xfer from the sheet to the plane, as if someone had just sliced them all into thirds or quarters. Extrememly frustrating. I worked through it though. Not a very good first impression of their decals, but again...there's a number of other factors that could have played into that. Back on topic..I sealed the decals which also went down very smooth, and allowed it to cure. When starting on the panel line wash, I reached for the Flory Dark Dirt wash. Watched it run smooth throughout the panel lines, and was very happy with the progress. I also rescribed a lot of the major panel lines / joins on this one, and I saw the results of that labor with the panel wash as well. After getting everything highlighted though, I took the tissue, as I always have, and went back to start removing the excess outside of the lines, and most of the stuff won't budge. I've had this issue with oil paints before (hence the reason I quit using them) but I've never seen this. It's just supposed to be clay, detergent and water. And the surface is as smooth as I've ever had, and so I'm stuck trying to figure out why this happened??

I finally took a Q-tip drenched in 91% alcohol and just scrubbed quickly in the uglier areas, and that seemed to help, but I also didn't want to start removing the future layers so I would work fast enough to prevent it from gumming up and becoming a disaster. I have seen one other thread on here before about someone else saying the same thing, but this is my first encounter, and I tried so many new things on here between the micro mesh paint buffing, re-scribing, but I can't figure out how either of those would affect staining on the surface. So I guess I'm just curious as to if anyone else has had simliar results.

[B_Realistic]

I'm goint to add something.

I also don't have the expected results with the Flory wash like it must be.

But I think that I must do something wrong because there are other models that I see that have been done with the Flory wash and it seems they have no problems.

I use Future and put the Flory wash on my model. I used to do this by doing the whole model with a brush and then wipe it off with a dampenend tissue but I found it would mess up the model because it's the way too dark.

Then I did only on the panellines with a brush and it didn't give me the same results like I see on other models that have been done with Flory wash.

[Phantom726]

Scapilot,

How long did the last layer of Future cure before you applied the wash? My first thought is that it didn't cure fully!

Bjarne

[scapilot]

I'm goint to add something.

I also don't have the expected results with the Flory wash like it must be.

But I think that I must do something wrong because there are other models that I see that have been done with the Flory wash and it seems they have no problems.

I use Future and put the Flory wash on my model. I used to do this by doing the whole model with a brush and then wipe it off with a dampenend tissue but I found it would mess up the model because it's the way too dark.

Then I did only on the panellines with a brush and it didn't give me the same results like I see on other models that have been done with Flory wash.

I too have used both of your methods in the past, and found it to be hit and miss results. I've since narrowed down the culprit. It seems like the planes that required very little sanding or filling often had the best looking panel lines. I've since figured out that I was sanding a lot of panel line detail away. Even if you can still see it, it's lessened if you've sanded anywhere around it. As stated, I used the UMM scribing tool (highly recommended by the way) on this build to rescribe a lot of the main panels lines that really stand out for contrast. I've never had such good results with panel line wash as I have on this one....aside from the fact that the damn wash has stained. I too have tried even using the "cover the whole thing in wash" method, and that's a nightmare. Sometimes good if you're wanting a rugged look to your build, because that's how it looks when you're finished. But on this one, I did a very fine tip brush and just dotted down the panel lines to keep the flow going, so it was hardly a mess, but it's just miserable trying to clean it up. Try rescribing on your next project...even if it's just the simple lines on flat surfaces.

Phantom: I gave it a few hours, but as I stated earlier, I barely had to use a wet coat on the last application of Future because the base coat went on so well after using the micro mesh to buff the finish. I could understand if maybe I had soaked the entire plane, as I have tried in the past..but it took and leveled so well, and all the decals looked good. On top of that, when I was scrubbing with tissue / Q-tips it wasn't doing anything to the Future coat, so it was firm in place. I've rushed things like that before, and wound up burning through a gooey layer of Future that was far from cured. So I'm kind of puzzled on this one. What I think I'm going to try again on my next build is to do a little more experimenting with a notion I have tried in the past. Use tempra water paints (same kind kids in preschool use to finger paint) I picked up a quart bottle of black, and brown for $6.00 at Hobby Lobby after I was frustrated with Pastel and Oil washes. The first couple of planes I tried it on, it worked, but with the issues I've been having lately with filling in panel lines...the clean up pulls it right out of the panel lines, but now that I got the re-scribing method working for me, I'd be interested to see how well it'll hold up with something to hide in.

[peebeep]

I would take it up with Phil himself, he is a very nice bloke and takes customer care very seriously. Go to http://www.florymodels.co.uk/ and use contact us.

peebeep

[Pep]

I use his hashes all the time, try a microfiber towel. Prepare son soapy water with dishwasher soap and dip the tips. This works for me even in areas that aren't quite that glossy.

[RiderFan]

Use Windex.

I had a similar problem with my CF-18 build a year or so ago. I applied the future coat over everything and let that cure for about 3 days. I then put the wash on and let it sit for about 20-30 minutes. But then I couldn't get it off. So I tried Windex (the glass cleaner) and that solved the problem.

You have to do it lightly or it will completely remove the future coat. But a slightly damp cloth or q-tip will do the trick just fine. Don't use Windex knock off's or generic stuff. There's not enough ammonia in those to work.

My CF-18 with (the then known as) Pro-Modeller wash that wouldn't come off

The same part after wiping the parts down with a damp cloth dipped in Windex

[dbsmith88]

It may be that your Future coat wasn't thick enough to take the roughness out of the flat paint. The wash will really stick to flat paint and it is a lot harder to remove. If I don't put a thick enough coat of Future down, I have a hard time removing the wash as well.

[scapilot]

Not too sure that it was the paint or coating issue. As I said, I buffed the entire paint job down to a shine prior to even reaching for the Future, so there wasn't much to cling two, and I did the two light coats to get it working. I was able to get most of it off with the rubbing alcohol, but it was just strange. I'll keep the Windex in mind should I run across it again.

[Phantom726]

May I suggest you do a little test on an old piece of plastic (a wing or something):

- paint the plastic like you did on the model concerned using the exact same paint

- now buff about half of it

- next, apply to each of the two halves a light, a medium and a heavy coat of future

- once cured, apply the wash and see if there's a major difference between the six different kombinations of paint/buffing/future

I would be very interested in seeing the result my self.

Just a thought

Bjarne

[B_Realistic]

I would take it up with Phil himself, he is a very nice bloke and takes customer care very seriously. Go to http://www.florymodels.co.uk/ and use contact us.

peebeep

I've posted a message on the site.

Edited November 13, 2012 by B_Realistic

[B_Realistic]

Use Windex.

I had a similar problem with my CF-18 build a year or so ago. I applied the future coat over everything and let that cure for about 3 days. I then put the wash on and let it sit for about 20-30 minutes. But then I couldn't get it off. So I tried Windex (the glass cleaner) and that solved the problem.

You have to do it lightly or it will completely remove the future coat. But a slightly damp cloth or q-tip will do the trick just fine. Don't use Windex knock off's or generic stuff. There's not enough ammonia in those to work.

My CF-18 with (the then known as) Pro-Modeller wash that wouldn't come off

The same part after wiping the parts down with a damp cloth dipped in Windex

The difference is stunning.

I'm not sure that I'll find Windex overhere in Belgium but surely it can be ordered on the net.

Does Windex has any effect on the paint?

[RiderFan]

It didn't in my case. It doesn't effect enamel (or Acrylic as far as I can tell), but more importantly, you're not removing the whole Future coat. You're not scrubbing the surface, you're just gently wiping it and so not removing the whole future coat. Just the extreme top most surface of it.

[MarcDuhon]

Flory wash will stain future and other acryl coats if you apply the wash too early after drying..... the layer Must be fully cured.... I wait 24 hours minimum.... alos dont apply it on a humid day...... high humidity causes the acyl layer to be stained more easily....I have best results placing my model in a box under some shop lamps... the warm dry air makes the future layer nice and hard..... then i apply it ONLY to the panel lines...... Remember.... if you slop it on... you are going to have to work extra hard taking it off again..... I use slightly moistened qtips in distilled water... going against the panel line grain... then a lighly dampened shop towel in airflow direction....... the flory product is pretty good.... but you have to mix it up real good to stop the particles from getting clumpy//// i prefer making up my own wash with MIG pigments and soapy water though

honestly i like the way oil washes behave better..... but I prefer painting with enamels.... and I just dont trust future enough to completely protect it.... I save oil washes for cockpits and other detail recesses...