P-47 Variants

[Viper88]

I was just looking at the P-47 kits offered by Tamiya in 1/48th and the ones offered by Hasegawa in 1/32nd and noticed that the Hasegawa kits offer you to build P-47D-25/30/40 and the P-47M and that Hasegawa include the dorsal fin in their kits but the Tamiya only has the dorsal fin in the M kit. I can't believe Tamiya would not of included the dorsal fin in the Bubbletop kit, so you can not build a P-47D-40 unless you buy the M kit. Am I missing something here?

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Off the top of my head, the -40 has just about all the visible attributes of the -M, except the gear box on the front of the engine. The cockpit has a flat, not corrugated floor, compressibility flaps, and the landing light moved to the outer wing area. The earlier bubble canopied birds do not feature these items. There were many internal changes, not easily seen. Fin strakes were fitted to many of the earlier birds as they became available, no rule of thumb there. Oddly, you can find -M jugs that do not have the strake. The entire production run of -M machines saw combat with the 56th FG exsclusively.. Hal Sr

[timc]

If you're looking in 1/48 and want to build a P-47D-25 or later, then get the M kit as you mentioned, it has all the parts necessary to build the bubbletop D. The engine differences between the D and the M are extensive. The bubbletop D used a P&W R-2800-59 B series engine while the M used a P&W R-2800-57 C series engine. As Hal mentioned the prop reduction gearcase is the main distinguishing difference between the -57 and -59 engines but the cylinders themselves are also different in size and shape; a fact that many manufacturers of these 2800 engines don't take into consideration. Back to the prop reduction gearcase...the C series engines use the round bolted design while the B series engines use the bullet shaped, oblong design. To add to that, the ignition systems between the two engines are totally different. The -59 having the GE turtleback magneto system while the -57 uses the Bendix-Scintilla dual magneto mounted between two distributors.

In 1/32 scale, the Hasegawa P-47D kit engine has a fictional representation of the R-2800-59 engine. To add insult to injury, their P-47M boxing is essentially the same kit with the proper reduction gearcase for the -57 engine given on sprue K. Strangely enough, the ignition system you get in the M boxing is appropriate for the D kit and vice versa.

HTH explain things a bit.

Tim

Edited November 19, 2012 by timc

[Viper88]

Wow, great info timc. So if I understand you corretly, Tamiya and Hasegawa both mixed up there kits. The P-47D kit should have the round gear case and use the turtleback magneto's and the P-47M should have the bullet shaped gear case and use the other magneto's, correct? So as you said, in 1/48th buy the M kit and you can build P-47D bubbletop or the M.

[Viper88]

Sorry timc, I think I mixed that up. For the P-47D Bubbletop I use the bullet shaped crank case like found in the kit but I use the turtleback magneto's out of the 3 types that are supplied in the kit. For the P-47M I use the round crank case that is found in the kit and I use the hex shaped mageneto's out of the 3 supplied in the kit. So what I can see Tamiya got it right providing the correct crank cases in each kit and providing all 3 types of magneto's but, what are the 3rd type of magneto's used for? In 1/32nd scale Hasegawa got it wrong then, they put the correct crank cases in each kit but not the correct choice of magneto's, correct?

[timc]

Sorry timc, I think I mixed that up. For the P-47D Bubbletop I use the bullet shaped crank case like found in the kit but I use the turtleback magneto's out of the 3 types that are supplied in the kit. For the P-47M I use the round crank case that is found in the kit and I use the hex shaped mageneto's out of the 3 supplied in the kit. So what I can see Tamiya got it right providing the correct crank cases in each kit and providing all 3 types of magneto's but, what are the 3rd type of magneto's used for? In 1/32nd scale Hasegawa got it wrong then, they put the correct crank cases in each kit but not the correct choice of magneto's, correct?

Yes, you did get it mixed up but you've got it right now. The ignition systems that were manufactured for the 2800 were built by different manufacturers and each may have a little different shape than the others. Maybe somebody knows more about it than I regarding the different shapes of the distributors will comment. Only the GE turtleback ignition system had magnetos and distributors all in one assembly. As far as the Hasegawa kits go, you're correct...they messed up the ignition systems between the two kits, although the ones you get in the P-47D kit are overly simplified versions of the dual magneto and the two distributors (mounted at 12 o'clock and 2 & 10 o'clock respectively when viewing the engine from directly in front or behind) The GE ignition system only has a blanking plate where the Bendix-Scintilla dual magneto would otherwise have been mounted.

To try and add to Hal's post above, I believe the entire lot of P-47M's that went the the 56th FG were delivered without fin strakes on them. They were added at Boxted and not all aircraft received them as Hal mentioned. There's also at least one photo that I know of where the P-47M "Zemke's Wolfpack" received a fin strake of the type that was used on the P-47N. I don't know if that's the only one or not...it's the only one I've ever seen on an M.

Edited November 20, 2012 by timc

[razgriz]

I can't believe Tamiya would not of included the dorsal fin in the Bubbletop kit, so you can not build a P-47D-40 unless you buy the M kit. Am I missing something here?

It's a common theme with them (aside from the oddballs like the Uhu, Storch, Wildcat, etc). Each "series" starts with a plain vanilla kit to catch the early buyers, then later releases just add bits to it until the final kit pretty much has most of what was added.

Beaufighter VI, then Beaufighter Nightfighter, then Beaufighter X was the last and came with the most build options.

P-47 Razorback, then P-47 Bubbletop, then P-47M "

P-51B, then Mustang III, then P-51D, then F-51 Korean War "

F-16CJ, then F-16 25/32, then F-16 32/52, then F-16 C/N "

That's why a lot of people recommend buying these last kits in order to get the most value.

[seawinder]

At the risk of duplicating content of the OP's other thread about the Tamiya P-47 instructions, the Tamiya razorback kit supplies an alternate piece for the windscreen interior armored glass support that also incorporates a hood to cover the area forward of the instrument panel. Does anybody know in which (if any) production blocks this feature might have been found?

Pip

Edited November 20, 2012 by seawinder