Hellcat/Corsair colours.

[Dave1089]

Hello all,

I have an Eduard F6F-3 Hellcat and a Tamiya F4U-1A Corsair to start shortly. However, the shades of blue concern me (these are my first WWII USN aircraft). Would anyone be able to tell me if Model Master range the correct shade of 'intermediate blue' and 'navy blue'? If not model master, are other acrylics available? I almost exclusively use the former but will diverse if necessary!

Thanks

Dave

Edited December 18, 2012 by Dave1089

[Jennings]

Yes

Yes

Yes

:)

[Joe Hegedus]

Model Master makes Intermediate Blue and Non-specular Sea Blue in both the enamel and acrylic lines. I don't know the stock numbers offhand but they are both available.

[seawinder]

Hello all,

I have an Eduard F6F-3 Hellcat and a Tamiya F4U-1A Corsair to start shortly. However, the shades of blue concern me (these are my first WWII USN aircraft). Would anyone be able to tell me if Model Master range the correct shade of 'intermediate blue' and 'navy blue'? If not model master, are other acrylics available? I almost exclusively use the former but will diverse if necessary!

Thanks

Dave

IMHO the Model Master Non-Specular Sea Blue and Intermediate Blue are both quite good. And their Gloss Sea Blue is the standard for most of us fume sniffers.

Pip

[PFlint]

do NOT use any intermediate blue with the FS number 35164 on it.

that is a very dark blue-gray that is nowhere near ANA 608 Intermediate blue.

I recommend Pollyscale 414203 Great Northern Big Sky Blue (a railroad color)

you can add about 10% white or light gray to cut the intensity a bit.

for sea blue I would say testors 1172 Flat Sea Blue or the one from the Marine Color line (forgot the number)

I would NOT use anything with an FS number on it or "dark sea blue" as that has a lot of black in it.

I tried to lighten dark sea blue and only got a dark blue-gray color that was useless.

[seawinder]

do NOT use any intermediate blue with the FS number 35164 on it.

that is a very dark blue-gray that is nowhere near ANA 608 Intermediate blue.

I recommend Pollyscale 414203 Great Northern Big Sky Blue (a railroad color)

you can add about 10% white or light gray to cut the intensity a bit.

for sea blue I would say testors 1172 Flat Sea Blue or the one from the Marine Color line (forgot the number)

I would NOT use anything with an FS number on it or "dark sea blue" as that has a lot of black in it.

I tried to lighten dark sea blue and only got a dark blue-gray color that was useless.

FS number or not, Model Master Intermediate Blue is extremely close to the chip for ANA 608 found in the Archer/Monogram book (vol. 2) -- just a hair lighter and bluer. Their Non-Specular Sea Blue is basically a dead match for the 607 chip.

[Falcon50EX]

Hello all,

I have an Eduard F6F-3 Hellcat and a Tamiya F4U-1A Corsair to start shortly. However, the shades of blue concern me (these are my first WWII USN aircraft). Would anyone be able to tell me if Model Master range the correct shade of 'intermediate blue' and 'navy blue'? If not model master, are other acrylics available? I almost exclusively use the former but will diverse if necessary!

Thanks

Dave

Dave i use Model Master enamels almost exclusively. Assuming their acrylics are identical in colour my thoughts should be interchangeable between the different media:

1) IMHO, the MM Interediate blue is too dark straight from the bottle; i recommend adding white to arrive at a somewhat lighter shade. Keep in mind when you gloss and flat coat a model, and if you choose to do washes, the end colour will be slightly darker.

2) The Non Spec Sea Blue is very dark right from the bottle. Without putting a sample of flat black right next to it, you would thinking you were looking at Flat Black!! What i do is i lighten the Non Spec blue by adding intermediate blue to it. david rapasi pointed out that there were two different formulae for mixing Non Spec Sea blue from existing paint stocks and this colour was highly variable.

3) Here are some examples. Judge for yourself. Hope these help. Somebody here said absolute colour accuracy is the siren's song. There's some truth in that. Look at pics, trust your gut. And make an educated guess.

david

[seawinder]

Just for comparison, here's one where the Model Master Intermediate Blue wasn't lightened. The Sea Blue was lightly oversprayed (as I recall) with a slightly lightened version.

[dancho]

Model Master enamels and acrylics are very different. The acrylics tend to be much lighter (scale effect?) and shifted towards the red end of the spectrum (matched to ancient paint samples?).

[randypandy831]

if your not an accuracy freak then out of the bottle is fine.

[David Rapasi]

I have been using Model Master Enamel Paints exclusively since I got back into this hobby in 2003.

All of the FS, or ANA colors produced by Model Masters that I use, and have compared the paint in the bottle to color chips, are a very close match.

A few colors needed a slight tinting to be a perfect match.

A few colors needed to be grayed out a little.

Some of the very dark colors are lightened a bit for scale effect.

The only paints I mix anymore are colors that aren’t produced by Model Master.

Dave

[Hal Marshman Sr]

David R, Am working on a -4 Corsair, and I think the GSB is too "off blue", compared to all the color shots I see, not to mention my own memory of planes in that color. What do you think, add a little True Blue? Hal Sr

[Hal Marshman Sr]

David R, Am working on a -4 Corsair, and I think the GSB is too "off blue", compared to all the color shots I see, not to mention my own memory of planes in that color. What do you think, add a little True Blue? Hal Sr

[David Rapasi]

Hal

Comparing the Model Master 1717 FS 15042 paint in the bottle to the ANA 623 Gloss Sea Blue paint chip, I added a few drops at a time of Testors 1103 Gloss Red to shift the color Hue from 225 to 238, plus a little flat white to lighten the color.

Dave

[Falcon50EX]

David R, Am working on a -4 Corsair, and I think the GSB is too "off blue", compared to all the color shots I see, not to mention my own memory of planes in that color. What do you think, add a little True Blue? Hal Sr

Hal, I'd give David's suggestions a try. His mixing formula for Navy Blue Gray turned out perfect!!

Just as a data point, on my 72nd scale F4U-1D i mixed 7 parts Insignia Blue FS 35044 to 3 parts Gloss Sea Blue. The Lighting and exposure of the attached photo isn't perfect, but here's what i came up with:

Provided solely for comparative purposes. Biggest problem with Gloss Sea Blue is it often doesn't photograph well except in daylight.

Bon Chance,

david

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Hal, I'd give David's suggestions a try. His mixing formula for Navy Blue Gray turned out perfect!!

Just as a data point, on my 72nd scale F4U-1D i mixed 7 parts Insignia Blue FS 35044 to 3 parts Gloss Sea Blue. The Lighting and exposure of the attached photo isn't perfect, but here's what i came up with:

Provided solely for comparative purposes. Biggest problem with Gloss Sea Blue is it often doesn't photograph well except in daylight.

Bon Chance,

david

[Hal Marshman Sr]

I don't know what I did, but what I got wasn't what I intended. In any case, the bottom 2 look like what I've seen. I do believe I'll give Dave's formula a try. Most unfortunately, I have to await 60 deg outside weather. Hal Sr

[4bogreen]

Hey Hal,

I am currently also building the Eduard F6F-3 Hellcat. It is also my first USN plane. I have the US navy color set of Vallejo. Don't know if its color is ''authentic'' like the modelmaster colors, but its easy to have this set. I have a lot of colors from Vallejo and like them very much. No problems have acured. The only thing i have, is that the paint dries quickly in your nozzle.

Regards,

Remco

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Thanks for the tip, but I'm pretty well set on Mod. Mast. and WEM Colorcoats, these are enamels, which I thin with laquer thinner. Hal Sr

[f14tomcat]

One thing to remember that the Non-specaluar SeaBlue weathered badly in the PTO. There are photos of aircraft knowned to be painted tri-color however the NSB has weathered so badly it looks like a blue grey plane. When the paint is fresh it looks a blue black. That is why on models it has to be weathered / lightened.

This was one of the reasons the Navy went to GSB. It didn't fade weather just turned alittle dull. Alot easier to keep up.

Wayne

[Netz]

I don't know what I did, but what I got wasn't what I intended. In any case, the bottom 2 look like what I've seen. I do believe I'll give Dave's formula a try. Most unfortunately, I have to await 60 deg outside weather. Hal Sr

Hal, go back and delete the quote so we don't have to scroll past those pic's again.

Thx.

Curt

[Don923]

I've read this topic several times, and sent most yesterday morning on the internet looking for a good formula to mix Model Master enamal "intermediate blue". I tried it on the bottom outboard wing sections of my F4u-1A and man it looks like neutral gray to me.Since it was the bottom wing I wanted to leave it a shade or to darker than the sides and vertical fin since it saw more protection from the sun under the wing thus it should not fade as much. I mixed 2 parts intermediate blue with 1 part MM flat white. I know I stired the bottle enought to get all the blue pigmets off the bottom. I have a practice of turning the bottles upside down the day prior to using the particular paint. I have not tried adding a MM blue from my stash to the formula

Now that I am ready for the top side I want a real good formula that works for other. I am looking for something more sky blue or like the tool box at the top of this forum and all I see is gray.

I did a search for intermediate blue, and tri color on this and other sites not to mention google so any help would be better than what I came up with.

Don923 (flylo)

[Falcon50EX]

Hey Don,

First off, whether its on the top or bottom, adding some flat white to MM intermediate blue is a good idea.

On a Corsair, i would actually add white to the underside intermediate blue colour and paint the lower wing panels. then, i would mask off the fabric-covered sections and re-spray them in a very slightly lighter shade. This isn't the greatest photo but it gives a general idea of what i did:

Remember that these aircraft sat parked on a carrier deck with their wings folded for the transit period down the east coast via the Panama Canal to the Pacific, or from the West Coast. Either way, when the wings were folded those undersides got a LOT of sun exposure.

Also, the colours will get darker when you put clear gloss and flat coats on so its a good idea to add white to compensate for that.

Finally, Colour photos of F4U-1As in the combat environment are extremely rare. The Non Spec Sea Blue did some funny things in the baking pacific sun and in some cases it faded so much that it began to match the intermediate blue. Keep in mind Non Spec Sea Blue could be mixed up using 2 alternative formulae, and Chance Vought and Goodyear went about applying the three tone scheme in two entirely different ways.

Expressed another way : You are on your own here. On one hand its sort of a crap shoot, but on the other hand theres a lot of room for artistic interpretation.

Hope this helps. Bon Chance.

david

[Don923]

Thanks David for your fast reply

Yes I read all about the Non Spec Sea Blue, and plan on following the formula for mixing it when I get to that stage. But I am still applying my lighter coats I started first by applying some areas shot with of yellow zinc chromate, followed by water dropplets applied to those same areas and some salt dropped on top of it. Next then some chrome silver over all of the aircraft more water droplets and salt. MM flat white underside mid section with one part sand added to 4 parts MM flat white going for a dirty look.

I applied a brushing of flat white to all fabric covered surfaces. hoping the non Spec blue will be lighter over the fabric than else where on the wings and upper fusalage. So far I don't see any differentce to the underside even though I shot a very light coat of the intermeate blue as discribed above in the post above Davids. Still going to hold off a little longer to see who else might come up with a good mixing formula for a MM faded/weathered intermediate blue. I have not taken the model outside to how real sunlite will effect the color I see now on the underside, Heck at them moment it almost looks like neutral gray next to my B-26 bomber model. I have tried different lamps with different type lighting to see if I see any sign of blue so far I don't see any. So I am going to at least add more blue to my brand new bottle of MM FS35164 in addition to lots of flat white.

I would post a pic of my work but all these years I've been on the site I still can not figure out how to post photos. I will add them to my flickr site soon though

Don923 (flylo)

[Don923]

I suppose my problem is all color photos I've seen were of restored aircraft and some of the models F4U-1A's I have seen in galleries. I am picturing in my mine a more Azure ANA 608 instead of the intermediate blue ANA 608 which has more gray.

I do have a can of old earlie 1980's Humbrol HU 13 which is suppose to be ANA609.

Which would look better using that old Humbrol HU13 older paint or mixing a MM enamel intermediate blue 4 parts X 2 parts MM flat white X 1 part MM ensignia blue?

Don923 (flylo)

Edited January 5, 2013 by Don923