BOC262 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I am trying to replicate a technique described by Harry Woodman in his classic book "Building Scale Models in Plastic Card". This involves gluing very thin (5 or 10 thou) styrene sheet on to injection molded kit parts. The very thin plastic is embossed with rib or panel detail that is finer than the detail provided in the stock kit. Seems like a great way to improve older, crude kits--for instance, grind away the coarse wing rib detail on say the SMER Walrus, then glue finely embossed 10 thou sheets over the wing to provide better wing rib detail. The problem is I am finding it just about impossible to glue these very thin sheets without the glue causing buckling, warping and other types of distortion that completely ruins all the fine detail. Woodman warns against using excess glue, saying it will cause the problems I have experienced. I have gone as far as trying to apply the cement with a cut down brush consisting of only a few "hairs", but even those small amounts are causing buckling and distortion in the extremely thin styrene sheet. I am beginning to think maybe the cement I am using is too "hot". Can anyone recommend a less "hot" solvent that would still work for gluing styrene to styrene? I tried avoiding the melting issues altogether by using super glue, but the results have been inconsistent and not very satisfactory. I also found an old thread on a railroad modeling forum that suggested using MEK, saying it wasn't as "hot" as other solvent type cements, but others say MEK is actually hotter than many commercially available liquid cements, so I am completely confused. Thanks for any advice! Karl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Have you tried white canopy glue? Will take a-lot longer to set but it doesn't sound like there's any stress on these pieces so it may do the trick for you. Can be easily cleaned up too if you have excess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyT Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I use MEK on my models, can you not put it on the item you are glueing to as opposed to the thin bit you adding, or hold it to it and wick it? Other idea is superglue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 Have you tried white canopy glue? Will take a-lot longer to set but it doesn't sound like there's any stress on these pieces so it may do the trick for you. Can be easily cleaned up too if you have excess. No, I haven't tried that. Not sure if it would be strong enough for long term. For instance, a "skin" can be made with embossed rib detail to fit over a wing that has been scrubbed of coarse rib detail--big surface area, and curvature. I would think the glue could "creep" and eventually fail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Tony Woollett (who scratchbuilt in 1/30 scale) used double-sided tape (the industrial type, as used by carpet-fitters,) then just glued the seams as usual, but with a gentler glue like MEK. Edgar Edited December 27, 2012 by Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 I use MEK on my models, can you not put it on the item you are glueing to as opposed to the thin bit you adding, or hold it to it and wick it? Other idea is superglue. Tony Woollett (who scratchbuilt in 1/30 scale) used double-sided tape (the industrial type, as used by carpet-fitters,) then just glued the seams as usual, but with a gentler glue like MEK. Edgar Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do. The very thin embossed plastic is placed on the surface I am trying to glue it to, and then a small amount of liquid cement is touched to the edge and capillary action wicks it into the joint. Problem I am encountering is puckering, buckling and distortion--the liquid cement I am using (Ambroid or Tenax) seems to be too hot and is melting the very thin plastic card. It sounds like both of you are saying that MEK is not as hot as some other plastic solvents--is that correct? Buying MEK used to be as simple as going to the local home center. Now it is no longer carried and my understanding is the price has gone up too--assuming it can be found. I am trying to find out if MEK will be suitable for my needs before spending $20-40 on something that may not do the job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Beary Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Try Lowes. They used to carry it and I just saw on their website that they at least carry a MEK substitute "with the same properties as MEK" The local Lowes had quart cans of MEK but I haven't checked lately. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom ordie Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Testors liquid glue is not as hot as others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do. The very thin embossed plastic is placed on the surface I am trying to glue it to, and then a small amount of liquid cement is touched to the edge and capillary action wicks it into the joint. Problem I am encountering is puckering, buckling and distortion--the liquid cement I am using (Ambroid or Tenax) seems to be too hot and is melting the very thin plastic card. You seem to have missed the double-sided tape part. First, the tape is laid onto the main component, to which it sticks fast, then the thin top plastic is laid over the tape, to which it, also, sticks fast. Where the edges meet, glue is run along the join; the double-sided tape stops the glue running onto the two surfaces, so that it can't react with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Try Lowes. They used to carry it and I just saw on their website that they at least carry a MEK substitute "with the same properties as MEK" The local Lowes had quart cans of MEK but I haven't checked lately. Bob Our local Lowes and Homey's now only carry MEK Substitute. I have no first hand experience with it, but I have seen a number of posts online saying that MEK Substitute is no good for gluing styrene. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 You seem to have missed the double-sided tape part. First, the tape is laid onto the main component, to which it sticks fast, then the thin top plastic is laid over the tape, to which it, also, sticks fast. Where the edges meet, glue is run along the join; the double-sided tape stops the glue running onto the two surfaces, so that it can't react with them. Ahh, now I get it! The tape acts as a barrier. I can see how that will help with at least part of my problem, but not sure how it will keep the edges of the very thin (5 though or 10 thou) styrene from melting, buckling and distorting. Thanks Edgar! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Testors liquid glue is not as hot as others. I've never used Testors liquid glue--will have to get some and give it a try. Thank you Phantom! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Sounds like you just need to get a few different glues and techniques and give things a try. You may be able to use the double sided tape and white glue method. Since the glue would then only be there to keep the seams together. It does a fine enough job on canopies why wouldn't it work here? I do like the double sided tape though as that significantly would lessen the amount of glue you'd need. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ahh, now I get it! The tape acts as a barrier. I can see how that will help with at least part of my problem, but not sure how it will keep the edges of the very thin (5 though or 10 thou) styrene from melting, buckling and distorting. Hold the seam/join vertically, and touch the top with a tiny drop of adhesive. By capillary action, the glue will run down the join, and, since MEK evaporates in about 15-30 seconds, it will have less chance to do any damage. Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Sounds like you just need to get a few different glues and techniques and give things a try. You may be able to use the double sided tape and white glue method. Since the glue would then only be there to keep the seams together. It does a fine enough job on canopies why wouldn't it work here? I do like the double sided tape though as that significantly would lessen the amount of glue you'd need. I was trying to save some time, money and anguish by tapping into the knowledge base here, but yes, you are absolutely right--there comes a time when only experimentation will yield definitive answers. Thank you for your suggestions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hold the seam/join vertically, and touch the top with a tiny drop of adhesive. By capillary action, the glue will run down the join, and, since MEK evaporates in about 15-30 seconds, it will have less chance to do any damage. Edgar Make capillary action and gravity work in my favor--brilliant tip! Thanks Edgar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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