JeffreyK Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Good stuff, Larry. Hopefully, someone will release a PE set that includes the stab pivot / attachment point, then we can just sand off the raised detail on the kit and replace it with a better representation of the real thing. The stab itself is certainly more of a problem. It seems to me that filling all the surface detail and rescribing would be the only way to correct the bigger issues. It's either that, wait for a resin replacement, or live with it as it is. Personally, I think the kit is basically so good that it's well worth correcting the mistakes, so (since my rescribing skills are less than good!), I'm going to wait for a month or two and see what resin bits come to market. Who knows, maybe someone will release some nice resin aircon inlets and Mk.5 seats too. Richard Could be your lucky day...all of those and more...just give me a little time. Jeffrey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 There is no way to sugar coat a critique of a kit or part,if it's wrong it's wrong. I have to disagree. Here's a fictional example to show what I mean. Instead of this... "The stabs on this kit suck. They are the worst blobs of plastic I've ever seen. It boggles my mind that a company would even produce these and pass them off to modelers as accurate." ...how about this? "The stabs on this kit aren't very accruate. The leading edge angle is swept back at too great of an angle. It would be difficult to correct if you are inclined to do so, so you might want to wait for an aftermarket company to come out with a resin replacement." See the difference? The second statement has no "sugar coating" on it, but the tone is completely different from the first statement. Are there some in the "just build it" group that don't post reasonable responses? Absolutely. But there are also those from the "accuracy at all costs" group who's posts seem to have a chip on their shoulder simply because a company didn't mold a kit to their liking or specs. Both groups are guilty of over-the-top posts. Part of the reason is they both have a passion for different areas of our hobby. I'm simply saying that when providing a review or overview of a kit, leave the adjectives at home and simply post the facts. It's a win-win for at least most of us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i know i haven't been the nicest person but good write up none the less. i took the title the wrong way also. anyways....resin stabs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard J Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Could be your lucky day...all of those and more...just give me a little time. Jeffrey I like the sound of that! :) I'm really looking forward to seeing what you've got lined up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard J Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Since this thread is about F-4 details and corrections to the Academy kit, here's a few photos of the aircon inlets that quite a few people have mentioned. This is a British F-4, but the inlets are the same as U.S versions. Not sure if these will be of any help to anyone, but here you go... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotaliscia Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Thank you all, Guys. Really useful topic. Seen from this perspective, maybe I've made a mistake to shorten my intakes. :bandhead2:/>/>/> Anyway, what about Trunnion covers above the wings? Are these correct for a late B or a N ? Regards, Paolo Edited January 8, 2013 by rotaliscia Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spilloneforever Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Yes, they are correct. Check these pics: If I remember correctly, you already put them on your Hasegawa conversion, didn't you? :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotaliscia Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Yes, I did! (I can't see the bumps in the first photo, but doesn't matter) Ciao Fulviè, thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a4s4eva Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This is a hobby, damn it! People can make of it whatever they want. If you don't like this kind of thread, do yourself and everyone else a favour, and STAY OUT OF IT. Just MY opinion. Well said Richard. Seriously I think people who aren't interested in the errors in the kit feel they are being personally attacked by Larry and others ... I can guarantee the plastic (or academy) aren't upset by this critique. Keep the good work up Larry, after all this is supposed to be a discussion forum.. so lets keep discussing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I can't wait till you get to the Stabs, If anyone doubts what attention to detail can do for a model, you need to see Elmo's F-4J that Larry has referred to (I'll post pictures and link to them once I find them), And you might want to find shots of Larry's own work, his attention to detail and craftsmanship is something allot of us modelers strive for. Curt Found it. Curt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Found it. Curt whats a beauty....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corey Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Found it. Curt wish he had posted his how-to for the stabs.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Milo Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Here's another point of view just to keep the discussion going. I build primarily 1/72. While I likely won't bother with this kit, there are details being pointed out in this thread that I may want to incorporate in my builds. I've also heard that Academy may scale down this kit to 72nd. If they do, it'll be interesting to see if these errors are corrected or minimalized... Keep it coming, fellas. I really enjoy learning more about the Phantom! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Incaroad Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 More to come this coming week stay tuned... LOTS to talk about!!! Cheers Larry McCarley 21045 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scorvi Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Hey guys lets look a this way...."The Issue isnt ***** its Monkey" Great quote from The Right Stuff (Gus Grissom) The manufacturers of model kits (esp. bigger companies) are professionals at what they do...make plastic toys and injection molded plastic items (Industrial designers). They most likely do NOT have knowledge of aviation or other subjects...automobiles...I can list some inaccuracies of model cars too. They produce plastic kits and try to overcome the inherent problems in that industrial process. The expertise we want comes from a different area and sometimes/sometimes not gets invovled in the injection molded design process. Perhaps in the future there could be more professional consultation BUT since that cost $$$ the companies will proabably try to do it inhouse best they can. What I suggest is to have online groups of experts in Aviation, autos etc. in hobbygroups that make themselves visible to companies and offer there services for gratis and then perhaps the companies may make more accurate products....but of course this requires a lot of coordination for a plastic model kit that may only sell 10,000 units worldwide. BUT this is a viable solution that would get better kits and of course produce a profit for the company. Some companies have inhouse experts but most of the newer companies do NOT. We also do know what happens when enthusiast try to run a company .. they sometimes fail since profitably is still the measure of all things in capitalism. Just my thoughts Steve Edited January 14, 2013 by scorvi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Hey guys lets look a this way...."The Issue isnt ***** its Monkey" Great quote from The Right Stuff (Gus Grissom) The manufacturers of model kits (esp. bigger companies) are professionals at what they do...make plastic toys and injection molded plastic items (Industrial designers). They most likely do NOT have knowledge of aviation or other subjects...automobiles...I can list some inaccuracies of model cars too. They produce plastic kits and try to overcome the inherent problems in that industrial process. The expertise we want comes from a different area and sometimes/sometimes not gets invovled in the injection molded design process. Perhaps in the future there could be more professional consultation BUT since that cost $$$ the companies will proabably try to do it inhouse best they can. What I suggest is to have online groups of experts in Aviation, autos etc. in hobbygroups that make themselves visible to companies and offer there services for gratis and then perhaps the companies may make more accurate products....but of course this requires a lot of coordination for a plastic model kit that may only sell 10,000 units worldwide. BUT this is a viable solution that would get better kits and of course produce a profit for the company. Some companies have inhouse experts but most of the newer companies do NOT. We also do know what happens when enthusiast try to run a company .. they sometimes fail since profitably is still the measure of all things in capitalism. Just my thoughts Steve I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure a company like Academy either has a research department OR contracts out their research. They got so much right on this kit and others such as their 1/32 F-18, they are clearly capable of getting these details right. Are they going to catch everything? No. Is it ok for some people to expect them to catch all these details? Of course it is. Is it ok for some people to accept the kit how it is no matter what? Of course it is. Is it ok for someone to come here and say "I don't like this kit because of the font Academy uses in their logo. I'll NEVER buy an Academy kit!"? It sure is. That's their perogative. And for someone who either A - has great knowledge of the details of the real plane or B - is very good at research to come here and point out what they consider short commings to me is a great thing. Do you have to agree with their findings or that it's even relevant? Nope. But keep in mind without guys like this, there would be no aftermarket ejection seats, decals, correction sets or any of that stuff that so many modelers use these days. Because without them, accuracy wouldn't be something model companies strive for. Bill Edited January 14, 2013 by niart17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scorvi Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I wasnt criticizing anyone here just pointing out some facts. Of course the cottage industry is run by expertens. Comparing large scale IM plastic model companies to cottage industry aftermarket stuff is like comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. much different proceses. I was trying to get some of the experts to share their knowledge Before the kits comes out so the comapnies can get it right, TRUST me I have avoided some of the duesies out there: -Minicrap F4U-4/5 -Hobbycrap DH VAmpire family -etc.... My comments are NOT against the Expertens (their comments & photos are greatly appreciated) AND not @ the companies...Getting them together would only make our hobby better! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I wasnt criticizing anyone here just pointing out some facts. Of course the cottage industry is run by expertens. Comparing large scale IM plastic model companies to cottage industry aftermarket stuff is like comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. much different proceses. I was trying to get some of the experts to share their knowledge Before the kits comes out so the comapnies can get it right, TRUST me I have avoided some of the duesies out there: -Minicrap F4U-4/5 -Hobbycrap DH VAmpire family -etc.... My comments are NOT against the Expertens (their comments & photos are greatly appreciated) AND not @ the companies...Getting them together would only make our hobby better! Steve Oh sorry Steve. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was dogging you for what you said. My answer was actually in two parts, the first was part was responding to what you'd commented about company research. I meant the rest of it more towards the people that are criticizing the original poster for pointing out errors. I should have clarified that I didn't mean that part towards you. My bad. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Of course, I can't guarantee a perfect outcome. That's really, really hard. Probably impossible. I have yet to have anything published, simple by comparison to producing a kit, that was even typo-free, much less error-free. But with respect to Steve's suggestion, the depth of my knowledge of some U.S. Navy airplanes isn't a secret and it's easy to get in touch with me; nevertheless, I rarely get asked to help. My unsolicited offers of technical data occasionally get accepted (but didn't even receive a "no thanks" acknowledgement in the case of a kit for which the correction posts were even more numerous than those for Academy's F-4B). Only once have I had the opportunity to review a kit master (via emailed photographs) and catch errors and correct misunderstandings before production. (Full disclosure, there were still two notable errors in the finished product, one chargeable to the kit company and other to my data.) I don't think that the shortfall in accuracy comes from the unwillingness of acknowledged subject-matter experts to provide information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 G'day people, Great thread. I want to know what the back of the AIM-7 missile fuselage should look like for Vietnam era missiles. The Academy items just end in a flat section. Should these have a small recess with a moisture seal fore the rocket motor for example? Also I am looking for a picture of the details inside the wing spoiler bay, preferably the right side though I would expect that both the left and right spoiler bays would be symmetrical? Thanks in advance, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 More to come this coming week stay tuned... LOTS to talk about!!! Cheers Larry McCarley 21045 will do! Does anyone know what exact parts and anything else need to make this an N model? thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Randy, just like building a B, when you build an N, there are multiple choices of parts in each position to make an N with you have to match up to photos or trusted decal sheet instructions, sometimes the same BuNo on different dates would have different details, especially the tail tips and nose sensor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RockRiver Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 More to come this coming week stay tuned... LOTS to talk about!!! Cheers Larry McCarley 21045 "LOTS"? What now? It's already enough for me....I am still fighting to (dry) fit in the Aires exhausts and still have to think about what to do with the a/c intakes and stabilators.. By the way - did anyone ever experience different burner can diameters on two examples of the same Aires set? I have two sets for the F-4B, one in gray, one in yellow and the the yellow ones are significantly wider - strange. RR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gb_madcat_sl Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Has anyone figured a way to assemble and paint the intakes and get them seamless? Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Has anyone figured a way to assemble and paint the intakes and get them seamless? Mark, I did mine like this and they came out very nice. Takes a lot of filling and sanding, but the end result was worth it. Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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