mossieramm Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi there, happy new-year everyone, hope you have a happy constructive 2013 !! Lets start the year with a nice easy movie question. You know near the end of hunt for Red October Ramius asks Ryan what books, and he replies one about Halsey. Ramius then says, I know this book, your conclusions are all wrong, Halsey acted stupidly. Does anyone know to what stupidity Ramius is refering to ?? Anyone ?? David. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Mullins Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi there, happy new-year everyone, hope you have a happy constructive 2013 !! Lets start the year with a nice easy movie question. You know near the end of hunt for Red October Ramius asks Ryan what books, and he replies one about Halsey. Ramius then says, I know this book, your conclusions are all wrong, Halsey acted stupidly. Does anyone know to what stupidity Ramius is refering to ?? Anyone ?? David. Look up the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The US Navy was opposing three Japanses naval forces. Halsey sailed his fleet north and away from a part of the San Bernadino Strait he was assigned to protect, to atttack what he thought was a large Japanese force containing the last Japanese Carriers with the intent of destroying them once and for all. This is the battle that the message; "Where is task force 34, the whole world wonders" was sent to Halsey. hth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonW Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Look up the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The US Navy was opposing three Japanses naval forces. Halsey sailed his fleet north and away from a part of the San Bernadino Strait he was assigned to protect, to atttack what he thought was a large Japanese force containing the last Japanese Carriers with the intent of destroying them once and for all. This is the battle that the message; "Where is task force 34, the whole world wonders" was sent to Halsey. hth To add further detail. The Japanese set up a decoy force of carriers to bait the task force (TF34) of US battleships and cruiser that Halsey commanded away from their assigned area (they were providing protection for US amphibious landings in the Philippines). Halsey took the bait and gave chase effectively leaving the invasion beaches and San Bernardino Strait almost completely unprotected. A separate Japanese strike force of battleships and cruisers moved in and started to wreak havoc on a covering CVE force (Task Unit 77.4.3 or 'Taffy 3' consisting of just destroyers and escort carriers) in the process sinking the escort carrier Gambier Bay, a destroyer and damaging several other escort carriers. The US supporting destroyer force put up such a fight though that the Japanese commander Admiral Kurita though he had encountered a larger force than he had in reality leading him to break off and pull back.If not for Kurita pulling his fleet back and disengaging it would have been a major disaster for the US Navy. A pretty major blunder by Halsey. His nickname was Bull, and for good reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors - great read, those FM-2 and TBM pilots were flying into some fierce flak piecemeal without the benefit of 'swarm' tactics, some unarmed. The DDs and DEs that charged Kurita are the real deal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This is the battle that the message; "Where is task force 34, the whole world wonders" was sent to Halsey. And to add insult to injury, "the world wonders" was just a nonsense phrase attached to the end of the message that was supposed to be discarded when the message was decoded. Standard practice was to add such a phrase to the beginning and end of coded messages as an added layer of security. When he was given the decoded message with the final nonsense phrase still attached, Halsey thought it was part of the actual message and was understandably furious. As for the Red October quote, I always assumed Ramius's comment was simply a throwaway line, to show how confident and experienced his character was. I have to admit, even though WWII is my main era of interest, and even though I have the movie on DVD, whenever I run across it on TV I find myself compelled to watch to the end. SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) And to add insult to injury, "the world wonders" was just a nonsense phrase attached to the end of the message that was supposed to be discarded when the message was decoded. Standard practice was to add such a phrase to the beginning and end of coded messages as an added layer of security. When he was given the decoded message with the final nonsense phrase still attached, Halsey thought it was part of the actual message and was understandably furious. As for the Red October quote, I always assumed Ramius's comment was simply a throwaway line, to show how confident and experienced his character was. I have to admit, even though WWII is my main era of interest, and even though I have the movie on DVD, whenever I run across it on TV I find myself compelled to watch to the end. SN Same here, its a solid movie. Lots of quotable lines too. Good music as well Tvtropes for the movie: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/TheHuntForRedOctober Liked this one: Switch to English: The first part of the film is entirely in Russian, til the Political Officer reads from the Bible the Book of Revelations. Mid-read, the camera zooms in on his mouth, where he begins speaking English, then pulls back again. The language switch is done on "armageddon", a word pronounced the same way in both Russian and English. Aslo: At one point the Soviet ambassador (played by Joss Ackland) is speaking to NSA Jeffery Pelt. Sweating profusely in a state of agitation, the ambassador tells Pelt that Captain Ramius has suffered a mental breakdown and will try to fire his missiles at the United States. This is a lie, of course, since Ramius is trying to defect and the Soviets want America to help them sink him before he can do that. When called on the fact that he hadn't mentioned this development before, the ambassador lamely blames Moscow for not telling him. Despite his nervousness, the ambassador lies well enough to get the Americans to go along with it . . . except that maybe the ambassador didn't actually lie. If you want someone to tell a lie well, it's helpful if they believe the lie themselves. Given the USSR's reputation for dishonesty, it's not hard to imagine that they decieved the ambassador himself so he would make a more compelling case to the Americans. And that's why the ambassador is sweating so hard. He believes that Ramius really has gone nuts and is about to nuke them, with the most likely target being right where he is sitting. Edited January 4, 2013 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I remember seeing it in theaters with my family. When it was over my sister was completely confused. I tried explaining it to her. I was probably preteen or low teens and finally had to give up. It is a great movie. I'm actually building a 1/700 typhoon and the thought definitely crossed my mind to do it as RO. This made me spit out my drink too... From the Family Guy Star Wars Edited January 4, 2013 by Bigasshammm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors - great read, those FM-2 and TBM pilots were flying into some fierce flak piecemeal without the benefit of 'swarm' tactics, some unarmed. The DDs and DEs that charged Kurita are the real deal. + 1 on the book. I just finished it a few weeks ago, one of the best. Taffy 3 got hosed multiple ways, lack of timely support from the fleet and after the battle, they botched the search for the survivors of the DD's and DE's and hundreds more sailors perished from sharks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nev Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The DDs and DEs that charged Kurita are the real deal. This. One of the greatest acts of valour in the entire war. I also love the quote from one of the CVE captains after he launched the last of his planes (steaming into the wind, towards the Japanese fleet), "Nelson be damned, lets get the hell out of here!" One Day in a Very Long War is also a great read written around Leyte Gulf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonW Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors - great read, those FM-2 and TBM pilots were flying into some fierce flak piecemeal without the benefit of 'swarm' tactics, some unarmed. The DDs and DEs that charged Kurita are the real deal. I also thought that was a great book. After reading that I started building/buying all sorts of US DD/DE's and had love affair with the Wildcat for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IrishGreek Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I remember seeing it in theaters with my family. When it was over my sister was completely confused. I tried explaining it to her. I was probably preteen or low teens and finally had to give up. It is a great movie. I'm actually building a 1/700 typhoon and the thought definitely crossed my mind to do it as RO. This made me spit out my drink too... From the Family Guy Star Wars Great pic! +1 from me on the Tin Can sailors book too. Great read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Awhile back I was watching a show on SyFy Channel called "Hollywood Treasures" where a guy buys and auctions movie memorabilia. At one point he goes to a collector who has the original "Forrest Gump" park bench, but the collector won't agree to sell it unless the host also buys another particular item..the original 21-foot shooting miniature of the Red October. The host didn't really want it, figuring it wouldn't sell at auction, but he took it anyway as part of a complicated deal to get the Gump bench. He listed the submarine model with a starting bid of $8,000, and to his astonishment it ended up selling for 95 grand!! SN Edited January 4, 2013 by Steve N Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Put James T. Kirk on Red October...game over. Chuck Norris would wait in line to see that movie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn C. Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Put James T. Kirk on Red October...game over. Chuck Norris would wait in line to see that movie. Hell yes! One of my favorite movies. I too will stop and watch it on TV even though I own it and have seen it about a billion times. It is the only movie that I have owned on VHS, DVD and BluRay, although The Good the Bad and the Ugly is about to make that distinction as well. Thanks for the book recommendation. Gonna pick it up on my next Amazon order! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimz66 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Ryan be careful somethings in here don't react to well to bullets... One of my all time favorite movies and one of my all time favorite movie quotes... I have to be careful what I shoot at... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) It is the only movie that I have owned on VHS, DVD and BluRay Did that with The Battle of Britain :wub: I don't have Red October on disk but I always clear the decks and suffer through commercials when it comes on TV. Hmmmm...there's a disk to grab Edited January 5, 2013 by ThatJeffGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 should read the book again too, it cover's Ramius's education in great depth...even has some of the same great lines as in the movie. Clancy's other book Red Rabbit has parts where Ryan is in the process of writing his book on Halsey and goes over his reasoning...not as black and white as alot of historians may have it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfgun33 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Great movie. The only Tom Clancy based movie that I can stand. Love all his books though. Just finished the newest one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parche Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 This is the only "modern" submarine movie I can watch. It is pretty sweet. I'll still jump on any old WWII submarine movie first, but I will happily watch this when it comes up. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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