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Hello all!

Thought I'd join in the fun. A few days ago I finished a build of two CF-104s in 1/72 scale, including one in Alclad with Wintervalley decals. My eyes are still strained from working in that tiny scale, but I learned a few things about Alclad and CF-104 colours doing it.

This Hasegawa kit has been sitting in my stash for a year or so. I ordered it from someone else on Evil Bay; it came with a resin cockpit as well.

Since the 104 was my father's favourite mount, and I grew up in my teens listening to them howl and roar as they took off and landed while I was stuck in High School in Baden-Soellingen, West Germany, I have developed a passion for this aircraft type. I have built many variants of CF-104 over the years. My first 1/32 version was this same kit, in the 70s, bought at the Canex on the Base in Baden. Sadly, as I could not take much back to Canada when I went to University, I was forced to dispose of all my models. The big Starfighter was blown to smithereens with the biggest firecracker I could find - spectacular!

I built one other 1/32 version, OOB with Leading Edge decals, in the overall green colour scheme. It now sits in the Squadron lounge at the local Air Cadet Squadron - a donation from me. That's why, when I was browsing eBay, I had to pick up this kit.

The Wintervalley decals were a real bonus. I loved the way they looked on the little 1/72 scale version; in this big scale they should be doubly awesome.

So here goes. First off, the tiny version of Wintervalley and Alclad CF-104 (1/72):

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Here is the venerable old kit.

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Here are the resin bits, that will jazz up the cockpit, but greatly add to the complexity of this build.

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Inside the resin package are a bunch of really nicely-detailed parts. I love the instructions for one thing - they clearly show in shaded drawings what needs to be chopped off. Some resin sets leave you squinting at the tiny drawings and guessing at what needs chopping. For those of us who build in large scale, I suspect part of the reason is we are tired of squinting at tiny drawings and parts... so that's why I enjoyed this aspect of the instructions.

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Note the shaded areas on the resin parts drawings at the top, as well as where the kit itself had to be chopped.

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ALF

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The cockpit tub is one of the toughest things to prepare. Dry-fitting showed it to be too wide to fit the fuselage, so lots of chopping to be done on the sides. The instructions also say to remove all of the centre portion of the tub (i.e. where the seat goes), making the whole thing more flimsy.

One thing better than the kit part is how the side consoles are properly angled; the kit parts are quite flat. That is one reason why the main instrument panel is provided in resin for the bottom portion - the angle on the side consoles where it sits.

Here you can see I've done as the instructions suggest: cut off the top portion of the MIP, and glued it to the resin bottom with its correctly angled bottoms.

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Here I have chopped out the centre portion of the tub. I don't have great tools to do this with. I ended up heating the blade of my dollar store hobby knife until it would cut through the resin, and chopping most of it out, then finishing the chop with snips and the sharp blade. What a pain, and it left me with a fragile frame afterward.

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Here you see a trial where I glued the lower part of the instrument panel in place, holding the tub walls together at the right angle with an elastic band until the crazy glue set.

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Of course, I managed to bumble this all. The side walls of the tub were still too thick. More chopping required, but this time I was chopping a weakened structure, with a glued MIP in place. Of course, I managed to snap the right side off. Here's what I was left with:

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So now what? One option was to glue the bits to each side of the fuselage, knowing it wouldn't show. Another option? check what others have done with this resin set. Browsing around on ARC and elsewhere, I saw at least one person who considered using the kit tub with the True Details seat, but that is tough given the way the seat bottom is actually moulded into the floor of the kit part. Here you can see the kit part, next to my partly-massacred resin remnants.

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So I decided to go with the resin still. But more problems were coming (foreshadowing, by the way).

ALF

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So, are you dying to hear what else went wrong? Suspense killing you? Tough. You'll have to wait. One small hint: this was a factor in deciding not to use the kit tub instead of the resin one.

The sidewalls were scraped flat as per the instructions, and I installed the resin sidewalls. Nice details. On the right side, I also glued in place the right side of the cockpit that snapped off.

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I also installed the shelf behind the cockpit, redone in resin. Frankly, the difference between the kit one and this part is not big. If I were to do it again, I would probably keep the shelf itself, and chop off the little flanges that go on either side of the seat, to replace just that portion with resin.

I will have some puttying to do on one side of this shelf to fill a gap, and I had to thin the sidewall on the other side. It was impossible, given the tiny drawings, to know exactly what and how much to chop from the back of the cockpit area.

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Here you can see the sidewall in place, as well as the rear bulkhead behind the seat and the shelf above and behind the cockpit area.

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ALF

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All right. I couldn't stand the suspense... so here's the other disaster that happened.

Somehow, amidst all the chopping of resin and dry fitting, I managed to lose a part. Not a tiny resin bit that could be left out. The nose wheel well part! Cr*p. Now what?

I looked all over. No carpet (hardwood floor in my model room). I moved everything around on the desk, looking to see if it had been thrown somewhere as I chopped and hacked at the resin. No joy.

I even asked the dog. Max disavowed any knowledge of the part - and he hasn't seemed to be having digestive problems.

I think what I'll do is use the kit cockpit tub, turned upside down and chopped somewhat, to replace the part of the nose wheel well that holds the nose gear in place. As regular readers of my in-progress threads have heard before, I don't let anyone look underneath my models, unless they are female and wearing something low cut... just kidding! Even they aren't allowed to peer underneath where I hide all the models' flaws.

So there will be lots of dry fitting and some chopping, to ensure I get the jury-rigged wheel well in the right place. I am sure it will turn up some day, perhaps as I'm cleaning out the central vacuum system in the spring, or two builds from now.

Turning the page, here are some happier things to think about. First, the resin seat is beautiful.

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Here is the rear part that glues onto the rear deck, with the two rails that hold the seat in place. I still don't know how it will fit into the cockpit area, or how much swearing will be involved with that, but for now I will leave these parts off until the masking is done and the painting of the Alclad and nose area is done.

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The front of the cockpit top is nicely moulded. I had done a resin cockpit on a 1/48 build once, and this part ended up being far too wide to fit under the windscreen. I had to chop it down to size quite a bit. This particular one doesn't seem to be too big - we'll see later.

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The cockpit painting has started. I used Modelmaster Acryl for the grey. It may not be an exact match, but it looks pretty close to the right colour.

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The right side after some black consoles have been painted in place, before dry brushing and touch-ups.

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The main instrument panel and seat, in progress. Note that there is no ejection handle provided for the resin seat, nor is there an oval handle provided for the top right side of the seat (yellow and black coloured). The modeler is expected to make these out of wire. The modeler is also expected to reproduce the oxygen hose on the right side of the seat with twisted wire. I will see how motivated I get for the twisted wire, but will definitely have to make the ejection handle and right side oval out of wire.

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ALF

Edited by ALF18
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Alf, I had a lot of these same problems when I did my Big silver Starfighter. In the end it turned out OK. You are making the same repairs I had to do and its turning out just fine. No worries it will work out in the end.70.gif

For poops and giggles here are a couple photos of my finished 1/32 CF-104s for motivation.

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As you can guess, overall green is next. I just bought one for Roy and plan on starting it once I can hobble back to the basement and I finish a couple Phantoms for another GB.

Edited by phantom
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The main instrument panel and seat, in progress. Note that there is no ejection handle provided for the resin seat, nor is there an oval handle provided for the top right side of the seat (yellow and black coloured). The modeler is expected to make these out of wire. The modeler is also expected to reproduce the oxygen hose on the right side of the seat with twisted wire. I will see how motivated I get for the twisted wire, but will definitely have to make the ejection handle and right side oval out of wire.

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ALF

Awesome start so far. I will be watching with want for updates.

I have some 1/24 scale braided hose for a muscle car project a couple of years ago, would that help for the oxygen hose? If so you are welcome to some.

Denis

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Awesome start so far. I will be watching with want for updates.

I have some 1/24 scale braided hose for a muscle car project a couple of years ago, would that help for the oxygen hose? If so you are welcome to some.

Denis

Denis

That would be awesome! I'll send you a PM to set up a time for me to stop by - unless you want to come to my place and see this one in person?

ALF

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Wow!!! That's a lot of resin shrapnel from the pit. I have that pit in the stash, don't know if I have the mad skills to fit that in. Really like the Canadian Starfighters but can't get over my Canadian aircraft curse to build one. Watching the build.

Don

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ALF: When I did my big Starfighter in the original Air Div scheme, I went out to the museum at Langley to have a look at"654, a dual that I flew out of 3 Wing..and the seat was a Dirty Black.Might want to check on this.

Barney

Here is the same kit in Alclad II and CanNilAir decals but be warned DO NOT use a decal solution with Alclad as you see on the model, the RCAF has already started turning black. It wll have to be resprayed and new decals applied

036.jpg

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Wow!!! That's a lot of resin shrapnel from the pit. I have that pit in the stash, don't know if I have the mad skills to fit that in. Really like the Canadian Starfighters but can't get over my Canadian aircraft curse to build one. Watching the build.

Don

Don

Glad to have you aboard. The only way to break a curse is to defy it! Lots of great Canadian subjects just begging to be built.

In my case, for the resin pit, it's not a question of mad skills - it's a question of the resin driving ME mad...

I have it mostly tamed now.

ALF

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ALF: When I did my big Starfighter in the original Air Div scheme, I went out to the museum at Langley to have a look at"654, a dual that I flew out of 3 Wing..and the seat was a Dirty Black.Might want to check on this.

Barney

Here is the same kit in Alclad II and CanNilAir decals but be warned DO NOT use a decal solution with Alclad as you see on the model, the RCAF has already started turning black. It wll have to be resprayed and new decals applied

036.jpg

Barney

Nice job on your 3 Wing Starfighter. Shame about the decal turning black - how long did that take to occur? Weeks? Months? I've used MicroSet and other similar products on Alclad before, and have not had that happen yet (knock on plastic).

All my references, and my own recollection from having flown in a couple CF-104s, show light grey seats in CF-104s. It's interesting that 654 had black seats in the museum, but I think that would be unusual.

ALF

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Hey there ALF,

If you are still in need of a nosewheel bay, I may be able to help you out. I have a parts donor kit, and I'm fairly certain it has that part. It will take me a couple of days to verify, but I will let you know.

jp

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Denis

That would be awesome! I'll send you a PM to set up a time for me to stop by - unless you want to come to my place and see this one in person?

ALF

I would love to come over and check this baby out! Maybe sometime this week?

I'll PM you to set it up.

Denis

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Hiya ALF.

Sorry for the delay in checking in. I have been quite sick for the last few days and checking the interweb was one of the furthest things from my mind.

Nice start on your big Starfighter. I had a resin cockpit set for the big CF-104 I built a couple of years ago. I started dry fitting a few bits here and there and realized that the resin was going to be more of a challenge than I was willing to tackle so I went with the kits parts. Having recently installed a resin cockpit set in my still in production 32nd scale 414 Sqn Sabre, I can sympathize with your plight. Manufacturer's definitions of direct replacement and the reality of the situation are two different animals. Keep at it though. It's coming along well. You and Starfighters. Me and Sabres. Nice rivalry.

As for the hose for the seat, if Denis's plan falls though, if you have a music store nearby, you can always buy a single bronze or nickle or steel wound guitar string of the appropriate gauge. They're cheap and one string can last for a number of builds. Just a thought.

And that's a kick in the stones about the wheel well. I once had a similar thing happen during a 48th scale Typhoon build about 20 years ago. I lost a whole main landing gear assembly; strut, wheel and door. I tore the bedroom apart. I moved everything out of the room including the bed, dresser, model desk, night table and garbage can and I couldn't find those parts anywhere. I still have no idea where they went. Like you with Max, I confronted Homer and Jessie and neither of them were talking...or barking...or barfing. And I never got a call from the folks we sold that house to letting me know they found the parts. That was one helluva carpet monster!

Good luck with the build and I'll check in for updates.

Take care bub.

Mike

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As for the hose for the seat, if Denis's plan falls though, if you have a music store nearby, you can always buy a single bronze or nickle or steel wound guitar string of the appropriate gauge. They're cheap and one string can last for a number of builds. Just a thought.

Why didn't I think of that?

I changed the strings on my acoutsic last year and kept the old strings for scratch building parts. I'll bring some with me when ALF and I meet up!

Thanks for suggesting that Mike!

Denis

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Wow! That's alot of resin. You've really got a challenge on your hands Alf. I'll keep my fingers crossed for luck and hope everything falls together. It certainly looks good so far and neat choice of scheme. The Zipper looks great in BMF with white wings. :thumbsup:

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Hey there ALF,

If you are still in need of a nosewheel bay, I may be able to help you out. I have a parts donor kit, and I'm fairly certain it has that part. It will take me a couple of days to verify, but I will let you know.

jp

JP

Wow! That would be awesome. I really appreciate the offer. I'll hold off on closing it up until I hear whether or not you have the donor part. Please PM me when you do know.

ALF

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Hey dont worry about the lost part it will turn up once your done spending hours to make a replacement !!!

Good start

Neo

The worst thing is, you're absolutely right. I will certainly find it when I no longer need it, or when it's too late.

ALF

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ALF,

very good start and how nice to see that others are here to help you with a lost part.

I think this is quite an iconic aircraft and reading that it was your Fathers favorite mount, I think this is a perfect choice.

Keep up the good work.

I am impressed . :salute:

Edited by HOLMES
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ALF,

very good start and how nice to see that others are here to help you with a lost part.

I think this is quite an iconic aircraft and reading that it was your Fathers favorite mount, I think this is a perfect choice.

Keep up the good work.

I am impressed . :salute:/>

Thanks Holmes! I hope to live up to your expectations with further progress. I have a good feeling about this one, especially after getting such a kind offer of a replacement part from JP. I will be working on other elements of the build for a week or so, waiting for the part to show up in the mail.

ARC is such a wonderfully helpful place!

ALF

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No pics at the moment - they are on my home PC. I got the great news that the nose gear bay is in the mail as of 2 days ago, coming from the Northern US - so I should have it by June... :thumbsup:

Realistically, by late next week. I have made a lot of progress on the seat, and EX_Bird_Gunner dropped by the house Wednesday night bearing gifts - some guitar string and braided hose, so I can add detail to the seat (O2 hose).

I've glued together the tip tanks, glued in the engine mount in the fuselage half, and assembled the engine. I will be glueing the engine in, and the tail will not be removable. The kit allows for the tail to be snapped on and off, displaying the engine.

Frankly, I've never gotten excited about building/detailing/painting engines. My preference is to have them installed in the aircraft, ready to provide thrust!

The other reason I will not have the tail removable is the gaps where the aft and fore fuselage join. The last time I built this kit, I modified the order in which I glued things, which I will do again.

The aft fuselage, according to the instructions, should be glued together (left/right) first, then affixed to the forward fuselage. This tends to leave some gaps around the join. Last time, I glued each half of the rear fuselage to the sides of the completed forward fuselage, leaving no gaps, while the two rear halves splayed open. After the glue set on the forward joins, I then squeezed the aft portions together, and glued them together. End result was a great join with no putty required.

Before the part arrives, I will probably paint the upper and lower surfaces of the wings and horizontal stabilator. With the Alclad finish, the wings and stab will be the last major parts I attach, allowing me to minimize the masking during painting. For the white upper surfaces, I will use Tamiya white primer in the rattle can. I have to look through and find a suitable lower grey colour. Anyone know the FS number? Is it the same as the radome lower portion, and the panel on the vertical stabilizer?

ALF

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ALF:

Not sure if you have this link but it may help in your search for an answer.

http://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guide/aircraft_clr.html

Also, from Canadair CF104 Starfighter In Canadian Service by Stachiw and Tattersall, on page 111:

"The remainder of the radome was finished in Grey CGSB 501-109...The top and bottom surfaces of the horizontal stabilizer were finished in White CGSB 519-101 for aircraft based at No. 1 Air Division...The top surfaces of the wings were finished White CGSB 513-101 while the bottom surfaces were Grey CGSB 501-109."

So, yes. The grey on the radome and the bottom of the wings was the same colour. Have a look at the colour in the link to the chart above. It looks like a bluish / grenish / grey. Wierd. Here's what the above noted link says about 501-109:

When this colour weathered, 'the green tint was the first thing to go' - thus resulting in a more bluish-grey appearence..'. There are two ways to replicate this colour. Tamyia acrylic's XF-12 (IJN Grey) is a very good 'slightly weathered' 501-109 OR you can mix RAF 'Sky' and FS35237, approximately 50/50. Examples of it's use are: the lower surfaces of the CC-129 Dakota, CC-107 Argus and the initial CP-140 scheme, the overall colour of the post unification CP-121 Tracker & the CH-124A Sea King, plus the wing underside on non-camouflaged CF-104. Although the overall colour of HMC surface warships, compare this shade with the 501-109 in the Maritime colour section.

Hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much, mon chum.

Good luck.

Mike

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