1/32 Hasegawa CF-104

[ALF18]

No worries on it being a tail sitter, none of my Starfighters in any scale ever has been, With and without resin.

I've seen you comment that before - but very strangely, I had one Starfighter (I think it was 1/72) that was a bit light in the nose... and all the others have sat solidly on their noses, like yours. Paranoia has me check now, especially when I leave off multiple parts in the nose area.

Where's Emvar with his weight and balance sheet? Having to do this by myself is way too much work!

ALF

[ALF18]

Final bits of assembly before the black undercoating for the Alclad. Landing gear is now the focus, and the doors. Luckily, this is mostly natural metal, so I can assemble everything before painting the primer and gloss back undercoat (like the nose wheel parts you see here drying, supported by my expensive circular temporary nose support).

I have closed up the main gear doors, because whatever is visible will be sprayed with undercoat and Alclad - ending up all silver. The donated nose gear well looks very good installed!

Here sits the fuselage after the gear and doors have been installed. The wings and tail will be left off until the Alclad painting is done. Next step - black paint! I will be using Krylon primer for plastic, which is semi-glossy. After that dries, I will hit it with glossy black Krylon. The paint will be sprayed straight from the can. I am too lazy to decant and spray with an airbrush. Yes, I am that guy, the one that heats up the veggies in a microwavable tupperware container, then eats them right from the same container. Drives my wife crazy, but saves on dirty dishes.

ALF

[Emvar]

I've seen you comment that before - but very strangely, I had one Starfighter (I think it was 1/72) that was a bit light in the nose... and all the others have sat solidly on their noses, like yours. Paranoia has me check now, especially when I leave off multiple parts in the nose area.

Where's Emvar with his weight and balance sheet? Having to do this by myself is way too much work!

ALF

Little bit of Old school there.... W&B It's done on computers now. But We've had to go back to the old pencil and Abacus on several power outages. Funny new kids have a hard time counting..... let alone trying to figure out what a C of G is.

I'll go out on a limb here and almost guarantee it'll be good for WB.

Looks good ALF!!

Emil

[ALF18]

Little bit of Old school there.... W&B It's done on computers now. But We've had to go back to the old pencil and Abacus on several power outages. Funny new kids have a hard time counting..... let alone trying to figure out what a C of G is.

I'll go out on a limb here and almost guarantee it'll be good for WB.

Looks good ALF!!

Emil

Emil

Let's see... you, at a svelte 172 lbs, on a 6-foot limb... carry the 12... multiply by the leg (or is it the arm?)...

By gosh! You're right! We'll be fine.

Here it is with the black primer coat (Krylon) sprayed from the rattle can. I have to sand a few areas and repaint - straight from the can it goes on pretty thick. But it is looking nice and shiny.

ALF

[CorsairMan]

Alclad II.... the more I use it the more I like it!

Can't wait to see this one all silvered up!

[ALF18]

Alclad II.... the more I use it the more I like it!

Can't wait to see this one all silvered up!

Me too! I finished painting the black more than 24 hours ago. The temperature is well above zero today (2 C), so I can open up the garage doors and shoot the first coat - hopefully, I'll have some pics tomorrow of the first bits of Alclad. Polished Aluminum first.

ALF

[ALF18]

Did I mention I would be learning more about Alclad II?

Well, it's true. I sprayed a coat of Polished Aluminum, hoping to get a nice high-gloss finish. Turns out, it was duller than I had hoped. The reason, of course, is the base coat of black. Not quite glossy enough. Here are some pics:

You'll notice in this second pic that the area right behind the left wing root is a bit shinier. That's where the undercoat was quite glossy. Also, not in this pic, I noticed that the tip tanks were decidedly different in shine. One was duller. Lesson learned - and this battle is not over yet!

Today, I resprayed the black gloss coat over top of the Alclad. I did two coats, until it was quite shiny, especially in the forward fuselage area where the CF-104 was especially shiny when newer. I need to let it dry for a day or so, then I'll redo the polished aluminum Alclad. I'm learning patience with this finish. I am anxious to get this beast assembled and decaled, but I know that it will be worth it to wait until the undercoat is suitably glossy to give a deep sheen to the polished aluminum.

I'm learning that you can't rush things with Alclad!

ALF

[Bigasshammm]

Once u paint the black and it dries give it a good polish. Either with a polishing compound or even just an old CLEAN cotton shirt. Will improve the results significantly.

[ALF18]

Once u paint the black and it dries give it a good polish. Either with a polishing compound or even just an old CLEAN cotton shirt. Will improve the results significantly.

I'll give that a shot. How long would you wait for the black paint to cure? 24 hrs? Longer?

ALF

[Bigasshammm]

I usually give it a day or two. It depends on the paint. I usually use tamiya spray bombs and they cure quite quickly. Never tried the krylon.

You'll know it's working as the cotton u use to polish will have the black rubbed off onto it. Plus if you polish one area and leave the adjoining area unpolished you'll see a noticeable difference.

[ALF18]

OK, disaster has struck with the paint job. I have really bunged up the paint job with Krylon, and was wondering two things:

1. Why did it happen?

2. How can I strip the paint?

Here's what happened. I have sprayed some black Krylon primer, which was shiny in some areas, but not all. You saw the results in the pics after I sprayed the Alclad - not as shiny as I wanted.

So I sprayed some gloss Krylon black over top of the Alclad, with pretty good results - it came out quite shiny, except for a couple places like the nose and the vertical tail. After it dried for about 24 hours, I sanded some of the "orange peel" effect off on the nose and tail, and then I sprayed over the whole aircraft with gloss black. Where I had sanded, it came out pretty good. Unfortunately, I then noticed that the middle of the aircraft was reacting very badly. I ended up with some acne-like blemishes on large parts of the finish!

Why did this happen? Is it because I didn't wait long enough between semi-dry coats? All the paint is lacquer - two coats of Krylon black primer, one coat of Alclad, then two coats of Krylon (one primer, the other gloss black). It was getting pretty thick, and the raised panel lines were starting to disappear.

I need to strip the paint. How do I do this? I found a thread here that talks about it:

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=113450&st=0&p=992826&hl=stripping%20lacquer&fromsearch=1entry992826

The Blue Magic polish option seems good to me, if I can find it somewhere in Canada. They say they sell it at Walmart, but no mention of Canadian Tire. Anyone have any ideas?

ALF

[Bigasshammm]

Definitely sounds like the paint wasn't cured yet and released underneath the new cote.

I've never used the Krylon before so now that this has happened to you I would say give it at least 3 days or so to fully cure. Maybe even a week. Especially with nmf it's best to go as slowly as possible with it.

I've never stripped paint either but I've always heard that oven cleaner works. Get a sealable bag and put it in there then use an old soft toothbrush or something to scrub it off.

Or so I've heard/read.

[EX_Birdgunner]

I know how frustrating a situation like this can be. Set backs with the painting process usually deters me from continuing. I hope this is not the case with you.

As far as stripping the paint goes, I have used Non-toxic oven cleaner to strip chrome off plastic parts before with success, perhaps that will work.

Denis

[ALF18]

Don't worry about me being discouraged - I am just a bit frustrated, but I really want this model to look good. Throwing it at the wall or giving it to the dog to chew are not options - yet.

So oven cleaner? Is it safe with the plastic? Will not damage the surface of the styrene? I like the idea of sealing it in a bag - keeps the mess contained, and limits odours. Given this jet is huge, I will have to use Saran Wrap instead of a bag, but the principle is still the same.

NMFs sure test my patience...

But they look fantastic when done right.

ALF

[EX_Birdgunner]

I had put the parts in a tupperware tub overnight then follow-up with a toothbrush to get at the corners and crevases. IIRC, the non-toxic oven cleaner had no odour to it. I had used Easy Off brand and it says fume free on the can. Comes in a blue can.

Denis

[CorsairMan]

I've used the oven cleaner - it works and should not hurt the plastic but you might want to test on a runner or sprue first.

[Barneydhc82]

I've had very good results using Tamiya TS14 Gloss Black as a primer for Alclad II Airframe Aluminum. I decant a cupgul into the Iwata CS, wait 5 minutes to gas-off and spray away. The only time there was a mess was when I tried spraying the Alclad with the old Pasche VL at too high a pressure

Good luck with stripping with Easy-Off, It ate an old (same generation) model of the P-=26 in 1:32 scale.

Barney

[Neo]

Don't worry about me being discouraged - I am just a bit frustrated, but I really want this model to look good. Throwing it at the wall or giving it to the dog to chew are not options - yet.

So oven cleaner? Is it safe with the plastic? Will not damage the surface of the styrene? I like the idea of sealing it in a bag - keeps the mess contained, and limits odours. Given this jet is huge, I will have to use Saran Wrap instead of a bag, but the principle is still the same.

NMFs sure test my patience... :bandhead2:/>

But they look fantastic when done right.

ALF

Thats why i love Foiling! :P

dont worry im sure youll fix it

oven cleaner will damage if you rub too hard or leave it on too long best thing is to do it little by little over the kitchen sink and rinse often dont soak it youll end up with a melted plane

[yvesff]

Alf,

I dont even bother with this Alclad primer stuff anymore, I paint with my favorite semi gloss acrylic, let it dry 48 hrs, spray or brush paint two or three coats of Future (mixed with a bit of Windex to relieve surface tension), sanding them with 3200 grit soft cloth sand paper in between. The last coat of future is not sanded. You can apply all the coats in one day but you have to let it dry for at least 48 hrs, 72 hrs to be safe before spraying the Alclad. Never had a problem.

You can then chuck the $7.00 bottles of Alclad primer in the garbage !!

[Neo]

hum ive been wondering if you could spay alclad on future good to know

[Emvar]

ALF,

I've used the Oven Cleaner from a spray bottle Easy Off is the brand. Works great on plastic. Usually soak it for about 15 to 20 mins then use a tooth brush to take the paint off. One thing you will have to be careful of is the cockpit. Tape it up good because the last thing you need is the finish being taken off there.

Wear Rubber gloves while doing the work......this stuff eats skin!!! Doing it in a well ventilated are helps too.

And I have used the Future Cheat.... Several coats underneath then Alclad works wonders. Not perfect but good enough for me. Saves on those agonizing hours of sanding.

Cheers

Emil

[ALF18]

Alf,

I dont even bother with this Alclad primer stuff anymore, I paint with my favorite semi gloss acrylic, let it dry 48 hrs, spray or brush paint two or three coats of Future (mixed with a bit of Windex to relieve surface tension), sanding them with 3200 grit soft cloth sand paper in between. The last coat of future is not sanded. You can apply all the coats in one day but you have to let it dry for at least 48 hrs, 72 hrs to be safe before spraying the Alclad. Never had a problem.

You can then chuck the $7.00 bottles of Alclad primer in the garbage !!

Intriguing! I never would have tried to spray Alclad over Future - I thought it would melt through it or react poorly somehow. I use Krylon primer (not Alclad, it's way too pricey as you say), but I was having a heck of a time making it shiny enough. I will definitely try this. I imagine that I can still spray the Krylon black again after stripping, let it dry 2 days, then apply the 3 coats of Future as you describe.

ALF,

I've used the Oven Cleaner from a spray bottle Easy Off is the brand. Works great on plastic. Usually soak it for about 15 to 20 mins then use a tooth brush to take the paint off. One thing you will have to be careful of is the cockpit. Tape it up good because the last thing you need is the finish being taken off there.

Wear Rubber gloves while doing the work......this stuff eats skin!!! Doing it in a well ventilated are helps too.

And I have used the Future Cheat.... Several coats underneath then Alclad works wonders. Not perfect but good enough for me. Saves on those agonizing hours of sanding.

Cheers

Emil

Emil

Thanks for the "motherhood" advice about the Easy Off and gloves. I'll do it in the garage over the weekend, when I have time. Right now I'm into a very busy time with the teaching - I have ramped up to 26 hrs per week taught starting this week, for the next several weeks. It will taper off again in early April. Oh, life is rough as a teacher... I love my schedule! When I think 26 hrs of teaching is heavy, I just think back to other jobs I've done where home life was 4th priority behind everything else - and modeling was an impossibility.

One question remains: assuming I end up with a glossy Future-coated finish on the black undercoat, will it give a really high-shine polished aluminum effect?

ALF

[yvesff]

The shine of Alclad comes from the glossiness of what it is sprayed onto. That the undercoat be black or gray, only changes the color of the finish somewhat and not its shiny-ness...

YF

Edited February 6, 2013 by yvesff

[ALF18]

The shine of Alclad comes from the glossiness of what it is sprayed onto. That the undercoat be black or gray, only changes the color of the finish somewhat and not its shiny-ness...

YF

Merci Yves

That means the solution to my problems is definitely Future over top of the black. Thanks for the explanation!

ALF

[Bigasshammm]

You can polish Alclad a little bit but you have to be careful. Can easily rub off the silver shine.

Otherwise just polish the heck out of the black underneath. I would even polish before the Future. A lot of times you can get a lot shinier surface via polishing than with Future.