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ALF:

Not sure if you have this link but it may help in your search for an answer.

http://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guide/aircraft_clr.html

Also, from Canadair CF104 Starfighter In Canadian Service by Stachiw and Tattersall, on page 111:

"The remainder of the radome was finished in Grey CGSB 501-109...The top and bottom surfaces of the horizontal stabilizer were finished in White CGSB 519-101 for aircraft based at No. 1 Air Division...The top surfaces of the wings were finished White CGSB 513-101 while the bottom surfaces were Grey CGSB 501-109."

So, yes. The grey on the radome and the bottom of the wings was the same colour. Have a look at the colour in the link to the chart above. It looks like a bluish / grenish / grey. Wierd. Here's what the above noted link says about 501-109:

When this colour weathered, 'the green tint was the first thing to go' - thus resulting in a more bluish-grey appearence..'. There are two ways to replicate this colour. Tamyia acrylic's XF-12 (IJN Grey) is a very good 'slightly weathered' 501-109 OR you can mix RAF 'Sky' and FS35237, approximately 50/50. Examples of it's use are: the lower surfaces of the CC-129 Dakota, CC-107 Argus and the initial CP-140 scheme, the overall colour of the post unification CP-121 Tracker & the CH-124A Sea King, plus the wing underside on non-camouflaged CF-104. Although the overall colour of HMC surface warships, compare this shade with the 501-109 in the Maritime colour section.

Hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much, mon chum.

Good luck.

Mike

Mike

Thanks for the link. On Wintervalley's instruction sheet, he gives an FS number (16473) for both the wing underside and radome, so that's consistent. The actual hue seems to be slightly variable, depending on weathering - good news for someone like me, who does not like mixing paint, and has a limited selection available. I'll have a look at XF-12, but I'm also leaning toward XF-19 (sky grey); the colour charts on the IPMS Stockholm site suggest it as an approximate match for FS 36473.

I'm also considering the use of Tamiya grey (not light grey, but grey) primer. I've used that for the white/grey Aurora before with good results, but it seems a bit dark to me for the radome and tail panel on the 104.

I know I can count on you!

ALF

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While I wait for Canada Post to deliver the nose wheel well, I am doing what I can on the kit.

I've done some touchups on the seat, and it's almost ready for the guitar-string hose and some bent wire for the ejection handle and the oval handle on the right side of the headrest.

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There is a LOT of dry-fitting involved with the resin cockpit. I'm finally satisfied with the way the fuselage closes up. Here you can see most of the parts glued into place. The part that gave me the most grief was the main instrument panel. I had to pry off the centre console support for the stick and move it forward somewhat - there are no locating pins or other guides of course, and the drawings show arrows pointing, but no "as-built" in place drawing or pic to confirm where it should go.

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Here I've glued in place what was going to be the replacement gear well - the kit's cockpit tub, with side consoles chopped off. I would have had to drill a new hole for the nose gear, because the one here was off centre. Luckily, I could rip this one out, and wait for the real part to arrive.

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Here are the two cockpit halves with painted resin, and the guitar string and braided hose that Denis so kindly gave me.

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I built up the engine. Its function in this kit will be to hold the nozzle in the right position... I have no intention of detailing it for display, or to have the tail removable like the kit allows.

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Here is the back end of the engine. What with all the chopping of styrene attachment points for the mouldings, I was worried about how it might look. No fear, though - the way they go together, the places where I had to trim off the 8 or so attachment points are not visible. I think the nozzle looks pretty darn good for such an old kit.

P1160622.jpg

ALF

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The main landing gear comes with a wire insert to strengthen it. Taking a lesson learned from the big Academy Hornet kits, I crazy-glued the wire into place, to make sure it would bond to the plastic and make the part truly strong.

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The gear strut is now together. I still have some hydraulic lines to glue onto it, and a few other details, but most of that will get done early this week, waiting for the part!

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I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas to come. I will be checking the mailbox every day, hoping the part gets here - I am really eager to press on with this kit. I bought another can of gloss black Krylon paint from Canadian Tire today, so I'm ready for the priming. The tip tanks are built up and ready for painting. Once I get the fuselage together, the rest of the assembly will be fairly rapid.

Now I have to go and watch the Habs play the Leafs in half an hour. Too bad Bettman won't be there - the fans would like someone to boo at, and express their frustration with what happened for the last several months. One other thing that I find puzzling - our friend P.K. Subban has decided to be stubborn about contract negotiations. Colossally bad timing, pal! Just when it seemed possible for the fans to forgive and forget, he decided to be obstinate about a multi-year contract. Spoiled babies!

The bad thing is we watch them anyway... and start to care if they win or lose.

ALF

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OK, OK - I get the message! When two members of the world's biggest street gang are ganging up on me, I know enough to knuckle under... :(

I had another look at your build, Phantom, and the colour looks OK. I then reviewed more ref pics on my PC, and I have to admit the grey is maybe a bit darker-looking on the natural metal finishes than I remembered from Baden. I think I was influenced by the fact most 104s I saw up close were the overall-green camouflage, and the grey looks naturally lighter in that scheme.

So IJN grey it is (XF-12, I believe). I'll go buy a pot tomorrow.

Thanks for pointing out the example, Shawn. How's the injury, BTW? Made it downstairs to model?

ALF

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ALF,

nice work and updates ..looking good.

What with Mike and phantom to guide you , this baby will be coming out just lovely.

{ you will have share your spoils with them.}

Good too see you are doing good Shawn.

Okay just going back a page or two to read as I want to refresh MY memory.. :wave:

See ya.. :cop:

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ALF,

nice work and updates ..looking good.

What with Mike and phantom to guide you , this baby will be coming out just lovely.

{ you will have share your spoils with them.}

Good too see you are doing good Shawn.

Okay just going back a page or two to read as I want to refresh MY memory.. :wave:/>

See ya.. :cop:/>

Thanks Holmes!

I'm starting to spin my wheels, thinking I might start another kit while I'm waiting... but having a hard time deciding what to build. Two GBs to choose from - this one, and Living History. Hmmmmm

ALF

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I will be keeping an eye on this one...

A NMF CF-104 is on my short list!

Go for it!

Slow progress, as I wait for the part...

Here is the assembled engine, dry-fit into the place it normally sits when removable. I had painted the compressor blades, thinking they would be partly visible...

P1160626.jpg

Wrong! It has been a while since I last built this kit. The aft portions of the intakes are blanking plates, so nothing inside the fuselage is visible. Oh well, at least I didn't spend too much time making the compressor blades look good.

P1160627.jpg

The tip tanks went together nicely. I will paint these silver before mounting them on the wings; this will simplify the masking process.

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The seat is done. I bent some pieces of wire to do the ejection handle and the other one on the headrest. Note the guitar string with its oxidation; this actually looked close to the green colour of the real hose, so I'll leave it as-is.

P1160629.jpg

ALF

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Hey buddy. Glad to be of some help with the paint info. The seat turned out very nice with the handles and O2 hose. Wish I had done that with mine.

Did dad ever fly a NMF Starfighter or had 439 gone to all green or the varigated camo by then?

Keep up the good work!

Mike

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Hey buddy. Glad to be of some help with the paint info. The seat turned out very nice with the handles and O2 hose. Wish I had done that with mine.

Did dad ever fly a NMF Starfighter or had 439 gone to all green or the varigated camo by then?

Keep up the good work!

Mike

Mike

He did fly NMF jets in Cold Lake of course, and when we got to Germany only part of the fleet was painted overall green. I have pics he took of deployments to Italy in 1972 from his aircraft on the ramp - you can see the white wing and silver tip tank in the pic. There was one day he came home saying he had mistakenly flown through some restricted airspace, and realized afterward that he was flying one of the only remaining silver 104s in Europe - so much for remaining anonymous and claiming it wasn't him!

The variegated camo came in in the late 70s I think - I don't recall seeing any when I left in 1976. The evolution was silver, to overall green with a grey radome, to overall green with the radome being overall black, to the variegated. That's why I thought the grey was lighter. Against the dark green scheme, the nose looked quite light in colour.

Thanks for the comments about the seat!

ALF

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Still in slow motion mode, waiting for the gear bay to arrive in the mail. I painted the horizontal stabilator and the upper wings white, using Tamiya white primer.

P1160634.jpg

The temperature is brutally cold here today. The daytime high was -23C (roughly -11F), with a wind chill of colder than -30C all day. Tonight it's going down to -35C. Luckily, my car sleeps in the garage, and it will be an easy start-up in the late morning when I go to teach my one class of the day. My son will be plugging in his little Versa overnight.

I mention the temperature because the place I do my painting is in the garage. I do not have a spray booth, so I open up the back and side doors of the garage to airbrush. After a few minutes, the air in the garage can get very cold in the winter, and the paint flows very poorly... so to paint these parts, I used the rattle can, with only one door open.

My winter painting technique with a rattle can is simple. Hot air rises, cold air is low to the ground. When a door is opened to the arctic cold outside, the warm air in the garage expands outward and up through the top of the open door, and the cold air flows in at knee level from outside.

What I do is hold the parts near the top of the door frame, and spray toward the opening of the door, so the rest of the paint is sucked outside with the escaping warm air up high. If you hold the part down low, the paint blows back in at you, which is not good. It also helped me be disciplined in spraying a few light coats. I kept the paint can inside the house, because the garage is only heated to about 8C or so - the paint gets a bit thick at those temperatures. When ready to spray, I shook up the can inside the house, went into the garage and opened the back door only, held the part up high at the open door, and sprayed a quick coat. About 2 hours later, I repeated the process again, and again a couple hours after that. Voilà - white parts.

Only 3 more months until the temperature goes back up above freezing... Grrrr.

BTW, I have started a 1/48 CF-18 build in the Living History GB, given that this one is slowing down. Also, even after I start closing up the fuselage and painting, I want to ensure I take my time and get the black undercoats nicely done so the Alclad will be smooth and shiny - for that reason, a different kit in parallel will help distract me while things are drying on this kit.

ALF

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Have they any kits/decals for the demo team a/c that was painted with snow flakes and the polar bear to represent the 13 territories of canada,have you the inclination to someday try that bird?

Was that last year's demo jet? I don't know for sure. One place to check would be Leading Edge Decals - they tend to produce demo schemes regularly.

To answer your question, no, not really - I like the schemes, but they tend to be a lot of work, and I feel very little connection to most of them. I do have decals in 1/48 for the demo scheme from the summer of 1995. That's the one (in Bagotville) that had the white tails with half maple leaves on the front of the tails, and not much else. I've flown that aircraft in that scheme, so it means something to me.

The only other demo scheme I've done is Dano Belanger's jet from about 2003 - someone gave me the decals, so I built the kit and I gave it to Dano a couple years ago.

If I were to get into the habit of making demo jets, it would become expensive fast in 1/48, and I find 1/72 a bit small for my liking. Thanks for stopping by!

ALF

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Was that last year's demo jet? I don't know for sure. One place to check would be Leading Edge Decals - they tend to produce demo schemes regularly.

To answer your question, no, not really - I like the schemes, but they tend to be a lot of work, and I feel very little connection to most of them. I do have decals in 1/48 for the demo scheme from the summer of 1995. That's the one (in Bagotville) that had the white tails with half maple leaves on the front of the tails, and not much else. I've flown that aircraft in that scheme, so it means something to me.

The only other demo scheme I've done is Dano Belanger's jet from about 2003 - someone gave me the decals, so I built the kit and I gave it to Dano a couple years ago.

If I were to get into the habit of making demo jets, it would become expensive fast in 1/48, and I find 1/72 a bit small for my liking. Thanks for stopping by!

ALF

I checked Leading Edge and there is nothing yet for the 2012 Demo Bird. I want to build it in 1/72 but only because I know the pilot and would give it to him afterwards.

The guitar string looks great on that bang seat, BTW!

Denis

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I checked Leading Edge and there is nothing yet for the 2012 Demo Bird. I want to build it in 1/72 but only because I know the pilot and would give it to him afterwards.

The guitar string looks great on that bang seat, BTW!

Denis

Denis

Thanks again for the string. And great job on the corrosion on the string - I didn't have to apply any paint!

ALF

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Denis

Thanks again for the string. And great job on the corrosion on the string - I didn't have to apply any paint!

ALF

Ha Ha! That's what happens after leaving my guitar in basement storage for the last 13 years. I only replaced the strings last year after pulling it out to relearn how to play.

Denis

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Finally found the video and pilot of this particular aircraft

Thanks for posting. I have saved that video onto my computer before - Patrick Gobeil does a great job explaining things.

ALF

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Great news! The part got here in the mail today. Thanks again!!!!

Yesterday, there was no part - and strangely, no junk mail either. Heard on the radio that it was so cold the mailmen didn't do any deliveries yesterday. Today, with the windchill only -35C (5 degrees warmer than yesterday), the Posties were out doing their jobs again.

I installed the nose gear bay, and immediately it becomes obvious that the part is from a different era of this kit. It fits beautifully, but is a steel grey plastic, not the same colour as my kit's lighter grey plastic.

There was a tiny divot missing from the well side, because the donor kit had been partially built. Turns out that there is a bulkhead right behind where that is, so it should be easy to apply some filler and make the small gap invisible.

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I closed up the forward fuselage, and after it dries it will be time to continue the assembly. It should go together quickly from here, and I'll be painting the black undercoats soon.

P1160644.jpg

ALF

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Things are progressing rapidly at the moment. The forward fuselage is mostly assembled. The speed brakes must be closed - unless opened by maintenance action, they were always closed when the engine was shut down. On this kit, it meant chopping off the forward attachment struts (x 3) at the front of the speed brake. The fit isn't that bad - maybe a tiny bit of filler required.

P1160649.jpg

You can also see the main gear strut is in place - remainder of the gear bits to come soon, but I'll let this part dry thoroughly before adding the other stuff.

I installed the little panel (D24) at the back of the landing gear well. I will leave the gear parts off from the front for now. I've managed to snap off the nose gear on a 1/48 Starfighter once while building, so I'll leave it until much later. One important note: the gun was not installed on these early 104s in Canadian service. For that reason, I am leaving off part C44, which is the chute for cartridge ejection. Something is bugging me about this part - I wonder if CF-104s ever had it...?

P1160646.jpg

Things are simplified by the absence of the gatling gun from the nose. I simply glued the panel in place, without installing any of the gun parts.

P1160647.jpg

One complication is how to do the blanking plate that covered the gun port ahead of the gun door. At first, I thought of using the plastic card from the picture above, but the plate is bulged, and I knew I could never do that. I also considered trimming down a properly-sized piece of sprue into a taper cylinder, but that seemed to be too much work.

So I settled on using putty. I splooged a bunch into the port, and will wait for it to dry before shaping it.

P1160648.jpg

ALF

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Taking my time for a change - very uncharacteristic of me. This building two kits side by side helps a little; I can make progress on one, while allowing the other to dry a bit.

I sanded down the putty that looks a bit like the metal blanking plate where the gun would be installed in later years. The camera is not flattering; it looks better without the benefit of a macro zoom lens. I might touch it up a bit, but the shape is generally what I want.

P1160650.jpg

The 'nozzle holder' (J-79 engine) plugs into the fuselage like this. The kit is made for the tail to snap on and off, and the engine to come out, but I've glued it in place here. Quite an impressive piece of technology for the era (late 50s); it developed about 17,000 lbs of thrust with afterburner if memory serves me correctly.

P1160651.jpg

To avoid gaps on the sides, I will glue the rear fuselage halves first to each side of the front fuselage. Here is the left side glued in place, with the second pic showing the light bead where the glue has squeezed out of the seam.

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Now over to the CF-18 build, while waiting for the glue to dry on this tail part.

ALF

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Now it was time to finish the rear fuselage. I glued the other half to the side, leaving no noticeable gap. Note the way the rear of the tail splays open at the moment.

P1160659.jpg

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After the front part dried, I glued the top of the tail together and clamped. The final step was to close up the gap at the bottom.

P1160663.jpg

The main skin is mostly in place here, including the little parts just aft of the radome. I have checked, and am pretty confident that even without the gun parts and the radar parts installed, it will not be a tail-sitter.

P1160672.jpg

Now to assemble the complex parts on the main landing gear. I will do all of this now, without painting, since the gear and its wells are metal, and the Alclad will do nicely on them. Lazy? Maybe...

I had a heck of a time figuring out the right orientation for these little hydraulic lines. I glued the tabs at the wheel hubs in place, then glued the lines to the tabs and the middle portion. After they dry, I will glue the other portion to the gear leg near the fuselage join.

P1160674.jpg

ALF

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