Gunze Aqueous Paints

[Der Grüne Punkt]

Hi guys

I switched from automotive paints to the Gunze Aqueous range, and I quite worried because I can't spray them properly as I used to do with the previous type, I'm well aware that enamel/lacquers are much easier to work with than pure acrylics but I think I must be doing something wrong, Gunze makes very good products and this paints I don't think are the exception.

My problem is I get grainy lines which is not good if you want a free hand camouflage.

does anyone is using this paints?, how do you thin them to not to have those awful grainy lines?

regards

[RichardL]

I never had any problems thinning Gunze Aqueous paints. I usually thin them with 60% paint and 40% distilled water, and they produce very smooth finish and fine lines. Gunze paints spray the best for me.

[RichardL]

By the way, what's your air pressure?

[galileo1]

Grainy lines are a tell-tale sign of not thinning enough and/or your air pressure being too high. Gunze Aqueous are great paints so I'd suggest checking your thinning ratio and your air pressure. I use Tamiya's X-20A acrylic thinner with them and they work great!

Rob

[a4s4eva]

Use Lacquer thinners. Works like a charm on these and Tamiya paints

[toadwbg]

Use Lacquer thinners. Works like a charm on these and Tamiya paints

Aye that be true. But as it may leaves an oder most foul.

[Mike C]

I use this paint all the time, and it sprays like a dream! Probably even better than Tamiya acrylic! I thin it with either methylated spirit (a.k.a. denatured alcohol), or Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner. My ratio is either 50:50 or 60% thinner 40% paint, sprayed at 10-12 Psi using gravity-fed dual action airbrush. YMMV.

[Triarius]

Use Lacquer thinners. Works like a charm on these and Tamiya paints

Nyet. Nein. NO! Why use an acrylic with a lacquer thinner? It makes no sense, either technically or from a health standpoint—or any others.

As suggested, Tamiya's thinner (mostly isopropyl alcohol) or 90% isopropyl alcohol with a small amount of acrylic retarder works very well. The retarder is critical if you use straight 90% isopropyl. The reason is that acrylics dry very quickly, but cure slowly.

For a typical gravity fed air brush 10 to 18 psi (max!) should be adequate, lower is better. For a siphon fed, 15 to 20 psi.

This is also winter, which means low humidity. If you can't raise the humidity where you are spraying to at least 50% relative, increase the thinning solvent, get closer, and maybe increase the retarder.

Bottom line: Acrylics are different than the paint and lacquer you are accustomed to. You will have to learn the exact combination of solvent, retarder, pressure, and distance that works for you. All the advice we (all of us) can give you is only a starting point.

[Greg Long]

Because Gunze does not dry quickly I add a level teaspoon of Tamiya flat base x21 and after mixing it together in the jar of paint

I then pour the required amount of paint into my Pasche airbrush jar and then add Tamiya x20a thinner and stir, 25psi in the compressor and

away I go. I can touch the model within a half hour of painting not full hands on but by the edges of the model

[Mike C]

IMHO, it's a shame to flatten Gunze Aqueous with flat base, especially their semi-gloss range. The semi gloss finish looks soooo good!

[toadwbg]

IMHO, it's a shame to flatten Gunze Aqueous with flat base, especially their semi-gloss range. The semi gloss finish looks soooo good!

Fully agreed. they have such an xcellent range of matched colors too! Wish they were easier to come by here in the states. Maybe once a year I order several colors at once from Luckymodel. Tamiya is my second favorite and I can get that pretty easily fortunately.

I've also had great success mixing Tamiya and Gunze aqueous. They seem to be a very close chemistry or are at least compatible.

[Triarius]

<snip>

I've also had great success mixing Tamiya and Gunze aqueous. They seem to be a very close chemistry or are at least compatible.

They use very similar solvent systems, so yes, they are fairly compatible.

[El pibe vitina]

Agree with most of chums here, Gunze aqueous are the best paints in acrilic world. Mix OK with Tamiya and you can thin it using water, alcohol Gunze or Tamiya thinner. Never had an issue with them.

Bye for now...

Edited January 20, 2013 by El pibe vitina

[Der Grüne Punkt]

By the way, what's your air pressure?

Now I'm at the bottom end of the gauge, about 10psi, if I go any lower I get a more grainy pattern

Grainy lines are a tell-tale sign of not thinning enough and/or your air pressure being too high. Gunze Aqueous are great paints so I'd suggest checking your thinning ratio and your air pressure. I use Tamiya's X-20A acrylic thinner with them and they work great!

Rob

I know they are great, that's why I ordered about 50 jars, so I have no choice but make it work, lol.

Funny enough if I go as lowest as possible I get grainy lines, I did't try beyond ~20psi but I think between 12-18psi is the right pressure.

Around here X-20A is not available, unless you want to pay a lot and I don't want to order it from HK.

Use Lacquer thinners. Works like a charm on these and Tamiya paints

I know, but I don't want the smell, I think about cancer every time I smell that, that's the main reason I quit car lacquers, which are far better than anything I ever used.

Because Gunze does not dry quickly I add a level teaspoon of Tamiya flat base x21 and after mixing it together in the jar of paint

I then pour the required amount of paint into my Pasche airbrush jar and then add Tamiya x20a thinner and stir, 25psi in the compressor and

away I go. I can touch the model within a half hour of painting not full hands on but by the edges of the model

I'll give that a try, thanks!

I don't care much about gunze's natural glossy finish since I spray Klear on top of it prior to decaling.

Well, basically I had to thin the paints a lot with a 9:1 IPA to retarder mixture as Triarius suggested, I'm at the opposite side of the world so here's summer and I live in Buenos Aires which is a VERY humid place (rarely less than 50% humidity and tipically around 70%).

Thanks a lot guys, you all pointed me in the right direction, now I'm doing my experience, I'll go back here with more information just in case someone find it useful.

This is what I'm using as a test bed:

thanks a lot!

[Mike C]

Now I'm at the bottom end of the gauge, about 10psi, if I go any lower I get a more grainy pattern

...

Funny enough if I go as lowest as possible I get grainy lines, I did't try beyond ~20psi but I think between 12-18psi is the right pressure.

Assuming you use gravity fed airbrush, in my experience, the "right" pressure is between 10-14psi. Use 10psi and thinner paint (60:40 or even 70:30 of thinner:paint ratio) for finer lines. For painting larger areas, use higher pressure with slightly thicker paint (50:50, or 40:60 of thinner:paint ratio).

From my experience, anything beyond 14psi is too much pressure for gravity fed airbrush.

Around here X-20A is not available, unless you want to pay a lot and I don't want to order it from HK.

Use denatured alcohol (a.k.a. methylated spirit, not sure what it's called in your part of the world), or even Windex (make sure you get one with ammonia), as alternative. More often than not, I use methylated spirit to thin my Gunze Aqueous. The only time I use Tamiya X-20A to thin my Gunze is if I want to maintain the natural glossy/satin finish.

HTH.

[nzgunnie]

Nyet. Nein. NO! Why use an acrylic with a lacquer thinner? It makes no sense, either technically or from a health standpoint—or any others.

And yet it works very very well. Gunze (and Tamiya) acrylics thin very well with both Tamiya lacquer thinner and Mr Color levelling thinner.

I mostly use Tamiya X20A, which can be purchased on ebay reasonably cheaply in the 250ml bottles. Gunze's thinners are also available on ebay in the 400ml bottles, both the acrylic thinner and the lacquer 'levelling' thinner.

Edited March 2, 2013 by nzgunnie

[AnthonyWan]

Do any of you have a reliable source for all these Gunze colors? I can't seem to find someone with a complete range.

[Mike C]

Do any of you have a reliable source for all these Gunze colors? I can't seem to find someone with a complete range.

My LHS here in Melbourne has a fairly extensive range, and quite reliable, except that the importer/distributor has had a lot of issues with stock. They haven't been able to restock since at least June last year. So they ran out of a lot of the "popular" colours (e.g. FS36375, FS36320, etc.)

I have a suspicion that Gunze may be having production issues themselves, since some of the overseas online stores I checked were also out of stock.

[Jennings]

Use Lacquer thinners. Works like a charm on these and Tamiya paints

And it defeats one of the major reasons most people switch to acrylics - far lower toxicity.

I've always thinned Gunze and Tamiya with denatured alcohol and they spray just fine.

FWIW, I quit using Gunze entirely once I discovered that (at least for me) I wasn't able to sand them out if I made a mistake. Sanding them out always leaves a little hard edge (ie: it won't feather out), which was then visible under subsequent coats. The stuff seems to have some kind of a plastic-like component that prevents it sanding out smoothly. No similar problem with Tamiya or any other brand of paint.

I use Tamiya and Xtracrylics almost exclusively now.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Jennings

[flyfort17]

Do any of you have a reliable source for all these Gunze colors? I can't seem to find someone with a complete range.

www.hobbywave.com

www.robots4less.com

[RichardL]

You can also order them from www.1001modelkits.com, but they don't have live inventory. As a result, when something is labeled as "Available" might not be and might take 2-3 weeks to get. I learned this out the hard way.

[galileo1]

And it defeats one of the major reasons most people switch to acrylics - far lower toxicity.

I've always thinned Gunze and Tamiya with denatured alcohol and they spray just fine.

FWIW, I quit using Gunze entirely once I discovered that (at least for me) I wasn't able to sand them out if I made a mistake. Sanding them out always leaves a little hard edge (ie: it won't feather out), which was then visible under subsequent coats. The stuff seems to have some kind of a plastic-like component that prevents it sanding out smoothly. No similar problem with Tamiya or any other brand of paint.

I use Tamiya and Xtracrylics almost exclusively now.

Interesting, I never knew that it didn't feather well. I haven't found the need to sand the paint after spraying but will definitely be on the lookout for that if I the need arises. I can see how this could be a turn off.

[a4s4eva]

Never had the feathering problem either. Maybe it's the lacquer thinners ;)

[Der Grüne Punkt]

Well, I did my experience with Gunze Aqueous and now I'm quite happy, I found that 90% IPA + 10% retarder works like a charm but at +20psi, I would say 25psi, if I go to 15 to 18psi the problems starts.

This is the last thing I been painting and I'm really really happy with out it turned out

thanks a lot for the help.

cheers!